Teams capable of winning the 2013 Heineken Cup

[lucky number 7]

Imo, the natural and best compromise atm would be

top 2 Irish sides
top 2 Welsh sides
the best Scottish side and best Italian side
Next best 2 P12 sides

Simultaneously insures that the tier 1 nations in Europe never go unrepresented while increasing the level of competition both the in the Heinie and the Rabble Pro. Give one of the saved slots each to the English and French, for now at least, I imagine in the (possibly near) future there will be arguments to give competition slots to teams from outside the current 6 European countries.

Ideal situation this is

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree completely - ensures all nations represented, but also rewards a strong showing the league.

 

[psychic duck]

Agree completely - ensures all nations represented, but also rewards a strong showing the league.

apparently France want a 20 team tournament

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe...cup-passage-a-20-clubs_sto3250037/story.shtml

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

My tip: Ospreys to narrowly lose the final to Clermont, having beaten Leinster in the Millennium Stadium in dramatic circumstances. Toulouse to be pipped by ASM in the other semi. You heard it here first.

 

[big ginger 8]

Leinster three in a row in Dublin with Cian Healy MotM. 4 penalty tries for Leinster through the scrum against Clermont 4 other scintilating ones.

 

[Peat]

apparently France want a 20 team tournament

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/coupe...cup-passage-a-20-clubs_sto3250037/story.shtml

So they say.

I think they may be trolling slightly.

That, or they want their heads examined.

 

[welshglory]

So they say.

I think they may be trolling slightly.

That, or they want their heads examined.

Why? They want all the pool games and quater finals done before the 6 nations, qualification based on league position and subsequently strengthening the Challenge cup. It doesn't sound all that bad does it. I think it would be a welcomed change

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Of the English teams, Leicester we know will always be in with a chance, and Saints if they continue to strengthen and get more depth to their squad will do also. But I think Harlequins will continue to develop and in the next couple of seasons could be possible candidates. If guys like Wallace and Lowe continue to develop I can see Quins having a very complete squad. They've already beaten Munster and Toulouse away, great achievements. Saracens need a more flexible and open minded gameplan if they're to be a threat to the top teams.

The other English teams seem to be miles away from the top european teams, which is embarassing as teams like Bath Sale and Gloucester on paper should all be doing much better than they are.

 

[gingergenius]

While I think Munster and Ulster aren't good enough to win the trophy outside Ireland yet, having the 2013 final in Dublin will raise their level a bit. A "home" final would be something to aim for. That said, they both have issues to address. How they react to new head coaches remains to be seen. I think Ulster may have a better team but will get let down by a dodgy flyhalf. Munster must continue rebuilding but if Rob Penney gets things right, they have awesome pedigree in Europe.

My top 10:
1. Leinster
2. Clermont Auvergne
3. Toulouse
4. Ospreys
5. Leicester
6. Ulster
7. Harlequins
8. Munster
9. Toulon
10. Northampton

The top 2 are a long way clear, Toulouse, Ospreys and Leicester aren't far away, Ulster and Harlequins are coming teams, Munster know how to win in Europe, Toulon can buy success and Northampton have regularly made the knockout stage.

what makes northampton such contenders? are people stuck in last season?

 

[Teh Mite]

what makes northampton such contenders? are people stuck in last season?

2nd best performing side since the WC for W/L and +/- behind Leicester may be something to do with it.

 

[cyRil]

but at least there aren't any more groups as stupid as the 2005/06 pool of Leicester, Stade Français (at their peak), Ospreys and Clermont, that was probably the biggest group of death ever

I still wake up screaming about Dan 'Bane of the Ospreys' Hipkiss going over at the Liberty in the 6th minute of injury time.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

2nd best performing side since the WC for W/L and +/- behind Leicester may be something to do with it.

And that was after taking a major blow to their confidence when they lost that match in Thomond where they were the far better side.

A replacement for Lamb and Diggin is all the Saints need to be the dominant team in England especially if Pisi keeps his form and the Front row get back to their best.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

what makes northampton such contenders? are people stuck in last season?

I've ranked them 10th. They're a potential quarter finalist who, with a good draw like in 2011, can go further. I don't think that's over-estimating them. I also like what they've done in the transfer market, getting rid of 30somethings James Downey and Roger Wilson in favour of Luther Burrell and Gerrit Jan van Velze. Losing Chris Ashton's ego in favour of Cameron Shepherd isn't a bad move either. I just think they've got a strong, well coached pack and the nucleus of an exciting, young backline. Flyhalf is still an issue though.

 

[Peat]

Why? They want all the pool games and quater finals done before the 6 nations, qualification based on league position and subsequently strengthening the Challenge cup. It doesn't sound all that bad does it. I think it would be a welcomed change

As previously described to me, 20 would still mean groups of 4. So the format doesn't change at all. You just lose four teams.

Also, if they seriously think the Scots and Italians are going to sign up to league position based qualification only, they're nuts. The turkies will not vote for Christmas.

Finally, nothing on earth will strengthen the Challenge Cup, because its the second tier competition and everyone knows it.

 

[coonor]

Leicester and Ospreys are tricky to predict as although they both seem to be in good form, for the last years in the H-Cup they have significantly under performed. At the moment and based on their new signings I think I would rate Ulster's chances as higher than both of them especially since the final is in Ireland.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Finally, nothing on earth will strengthen the Challenge Cup, because its the second tier competition and everyone knows it.

+1. Less than 10,000 turned up at the final in the Stoop last weekend. Last year's final in Cardiff saw just of 12,000 pay through the gate. Pumping Heineken Cup teams into the knockout stages hasn't worked in reinvigourating the tournament. It should be torn up and either disbanded or completely reimagined as a straight knock out competition over 2 legs.

 

[Teh Mite]

10,000 travelling French fans is nowt short of a miracle, particularly for Toulon and Biarritz.

Remember that when Stade and Toulouse contested the final in Scotland only 50,000 turned up.

 

[Tony Manx]

Do not believe the majority of the crowd at the Amlin Final were from the participating clubs!

Seem to remember few months back that tickets to this and the H Cup final were on sale as a package. These and those who fancied watching, wrongly, a game of open French Rugby were the majority.

For reasons I will not go into, I know that when Biarritz were in the H Cup Final at Cardiff, for which I was duly in attendance, the two types of tickets available to BO for sale were nowhere nearly sold out and were returned as their supporters, who probably believed they had a greater chance of winning that Final than this year's Amlin, could not afford or did not want to travel!!

 

[welshglory]

+1. Less than 10,000 turned up at the final in the Stoop last weekend. Last year's final in Cardiff saw just of 12,000 pay through the gate. Pumping Heineken Cup teams into the knockout stages hasn't worked in reinvigourating the tournament. It should be torn up and either disbanded or completely reimagined as a straight knock out competition over 2 legs.

I think you should blame the ERC for staging the final of the Amlin in the same city as the HC. Remember in 2010 when Cardiff played Toulon at a sold out Stade Veledrome. I'm pretty sure if it was held in France this year it would have been a big sell out as well.

 

[smartcooky]

Just wondering what teams you think are capable of winning the HC next year.

As we saw yesterday Leinster are about a level ahead of Ulster but this, in my opinion, doesn't mean Ulster aren't capable of winning as they could win without having to beat Leinster and they are capable of beating Leinster as well.

Anyway here are the teams I think can do it:

Leinster - It'll be very hard to go three in a row but they look as if they can beat anyone.
Clermont - Second best after Leinster at the moment.
Ulster - above
Toulouse - If they can get back on form they can beat anyone.
Munster - They're too stubborn to go away. If they can get their forwards going again they can do it.
Leicester - Look to be improving big time.

Teams who aren't far away:

Northampton - A good out half away from being a class act.
Toulon - Need a good coach and more desire to win.
Biarittz - They're good in Europe and they've finally tasted success, dark horses.
Scarlets - They have the players, just need to click.

Edinburgh - Did a great job this year, I can't see them doing it but I didn't see them getting into the Amlin last year.

Harlequins?