Super Rugby : Play-off Discussion

[Caitlyn Jenner]

I predict the Canes to do the Lions in the Semi. Obviously that's the only opinion that I'm gonna have, but I do genuinely think the canes are a better team. Home advantage may be a leveller though. That is the toughest game to predict imo.

 

[Larksea]

crazy scenario
give some credit to the lions, they are clearly the best team outside NZ
but do they deserve the #1 spot and home advantage through the finals with the easy draw they have had? IMO No and I think its an absolute travesty.
And they have also avoided playing a NZ team in the quater final as well... Get a rematch with the sharks which shouldn't be too much trouble for them

in the meantime the crusaders and Highlanders will have another epic battle that will be hard to pick.
The Hurricanes are sure to beat the Brumbies, I cant see that going any other way.
I think the chiefs are clearly a better side than the Stormers but travel is a huge factor. The chiefs trip started with a 2am bus to Auckland on Sunday morning after playing Saturday evening, for a flight to Sydney to catch another flight to Cape Town, via Johannesburg. its an evil travel schedule. While the Stormers aren't as good as the NZ teams this year they wont be the pushovers they were last year.

so SF's likely to be?

Lions vs hurricanes
Crusaders vs. Chiefs

not a givin, highlanders wont be easy beats, stormers will be tough for travel wary chiefs.
But Lions vs canes is almost a lockin, I do like the hurricanes for this game, will be interesting to see if Dane Coles is back by then??

 

[TRF_heineken]

crazy scenario
give some credit to the lions, they are clearly the best team outside NZ
but do they deserve the #1 spot and home advantage through the finals with the easy draw they have had? IMO No and I think its an absolute travesty.
And they have also avoided playing a NZ team in the quater final as well... Get a rematch with the sharks which shouldn't be too much trouble for them

in the meantime the crusaders and Highlanders will have another epic battle that will be hard to pick.
The Hurricanes are sure to beat the Brumbies, I cant see that going any other way.
I think the chiefs are clearly a better side than the Stormers but travel is a huge factor. The chiefs trip started with a 2am bus to Auckland on Sunday morning after playing Saturday evening, for a flight to Sydney to catch another flight to Cape Town, via Johannesburg. its an evil travel schedule. While the Stormers aren't as good as the NZ teams this year they wont be the pushovers they were last year.

so SF's likely to be?

Lions vs hurricanes
Crusaders vs. Chiefs

not a givin, highlanders wont be easy beats, stormers will be tough for travel wary chiefs.
But Lions vs canes is almost a lockin, I do like the hurricanes for this game, will be interesting to see if Dane Coles is back by then??

Okay, so I get it, you're unhappy. But it doesn't help that we complain about the format, that was the hand that was dealt and it has been like this for the past 2 years. Luckily, next year we won't have this travesty anymore.

It certainly will be interesting, the Lions will face their first NZ opposition for the year in the playoffs. The Stormers will have a rematch with the Chiefs, who they already beaten once this year. And then the poor old Brumbies have a home game where they surely will get slaughtered.

This could go a lot of ways. and after the gruelling Lions tour, the possibility is that not many of the NZ teams will make it past this coming weekend. Not that I think it would be so easy. But after this past weekend, I think all the teams in the playoffs can smell blood as there are weaknesses in all the teams...

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Unless the Lions step it up several gears next weekend I can see them being eliminated by the first NZ side they meet. I don't think they have reached the same heights of performance as last year when they were outstanding.

They are still strong enough to win it, especially with RJvR back, but surely you need to hit some sort of top form before entering the playoffs if you intend to win it?

I think Faf is a huge loss to both Lions and Boks. Clearly the number one scrum half in South Africa for me. Is there any explanation for why he was relegated to the bench this year? I feel for him after he and Jantjies were singled out by AC for their poor territorial kicking.

PS - And thrashing a reserve Sunwolves doesn't count!

 

[TRF_heineken]

Unless the Lions step it up several gears next weekend I can see them being eliminated by the first NZ side they meet. I don't think they have reached the same heights of performance as last year when they were outstanding.

They are still strong enough to win it, especially with RJvR back, but surely you need to hit some sort of top form before entering the playoffs if you intend to win it?

I think Faf is a huge loss to both Lions and Boks. Clearly the number one scrum half in South Africa for me. Is there any explanation for why he was relegated to the bench this year? I feel for him after he and Jantjies were singled out by AC for their poor territorial kicking.

PS - And thrashing a reserve Sunwolves doesn't count!

Faf, is terribly out of form. And he's unreliable in defence. Cronje has been so much better than Faf. And there's very few SA scrumhalves who can clear a ball from the ruck as quick as Cronje. I think Faf, has rightfully lost his spot.

As for the Lions, I think they shouldn't be underestimated, purely because they haven't played against NZ opposition. In Fact, I think this will make them even tougher to beat, the NZ teams can't use footage from how the Lions played against their counterparts, and where to attack their weak spots. Whereas, the Lions are very close to being at full strength, apart from Whiteley, who is also recovering. but with RJvR back, they will be stronger and very prepared for the NZ onslaught.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Unless the Lions step it up several gears next weekend I can see them being eliminated by the first NZ side they meet. I don't think they have reached the same heights of performance as last year when they were outstanding.

Do you have any metric to support that?
I just checked the basic ones (total points, matches won/lost, points scored, points against, etc.) and in every single one the Lions have done better in 2017. True, the opposition is different, but i don't see much evidence to support your claim.
The only game they lost was when they fielded a complete B team and they've been cruising through the entire competition. Don't think they've moved into third gear.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Do you have any metric to support that?
I just checked the basic ones (total points, matches won/lost, points scored, points against, etc.) and in every single one the Lions have done better in 2017. True, the opposition is different, but i don't see much evidence to support your claim.
The only game they lost was when they fielded a complete B team and they've been cruising through the entire competition. Don't think they've moved into third gear.

Nope no metric, I just think they were sensational for prolonged parts of the season last year and that key players have regressed (Faf, Combrinck, Jantjies, maybe Mapoe) or been missed due to injury (RJvR). Purely subjective on my part. I won't know if I have read it wrong until they meet the Canes.

Unless of course they somehow lose to the Sharks here.

 

[Nubiwan]

How can anyone suggest the lions are any good? The fixtures this year are skewed so much in their favour it's nothing short of embarassing again.

The conference system is something of a sham, and serves only to improve the chances of the weaker conference winners, by giving them a home advantage.

As an outsider, I am a little surprised it is allowed, even tolerated.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

How can anyone suggest the lions are any good? The fixtures this year are skewed so much in their favour it's nothing short of embarassing again.

The conference system is something of a sham, and serves only to improve the chances of the weaker conference winners, by giving them a home advantage.

As an outsider, I am a little surprised it is allowed, even tolerated.

You make it sound as if the tournament's format is not a consequence of the organizers' combined decisions.. ? Not that anyone on here likes it but a little OTT there, don't ya think?

 

[TRF_heineken]

You make it sound as if the tournament's format is not a consequence of the organizers' combined decisions.. ? Not that anyone on here likes it but a little OTT there, don't ya think?

It's the conspiracy theory that South Africa wants the conference system so that they don't have to play NZ anymore, that's why we're joining the Pro12...

 

[Icemn]

It's the conspiracy theory that South Africa wants the conference system so that they don't have to play NZ anymore, that's why we're joining the Pro12...

funny...

This conference system actually suit the NZ rugby union more, as you only get better by playing the best

All the team that top their respective weaker conferences will drop out come the 'business end' of the competition... its sad actually...

 

[Nubiwan]

You make it sound as if the tournament's format is not a consequence of the organizers' combined decisions.. ? Not that anyone on here likes it but a little OTT there, don't ya think?

Apologies, if I sound OTT.

I already said I am an outsider. Not tied to any SR team or nation. My perspective is from far away, so I really don't care that much. My opinion (from a neutral standpoint) is one of amazement more than anything.

I consider SR one of the best, if not the best tournament in provincial rugby in the world, so not sure why any one team gets such an advantage, to be honest. Lions are getting a freebie if you ask me. No other way to look at it.

 

[Nubiwan]

It's the conspiracy theory that South Africa wants the conference system so that they don't have to play NZ anymore, that's why we're joining the Pro12...

Are they joining the Pro 12? That a done deal? Thought that just speculation or talk....

 

[mania]

This conference system actually suit the NZ rugby union more, as you only get better by playing the best

yeah i was against this conference system from the start. didnt like derby's cos i didnt want to watch nz teams smash each other. of course that was before i realised how much benefit we were getting from honing our rugby against each other.

our levels have gone thru the roof!!

so whilst i still dont like watching derby's i appreciate that we do get major benefits from them

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

funny...

This conference system actually suit the NZ rugby union more, as you only get better by playing the best

All the team that top their respective weaker conferences will drop out come the 'business end' of the competition... its sad actually...

You make it sound as if the tournament's format is what people anywhere actually want?

 

[mania]

This could go a lot of ways. and after the gruelling Lions tour, the possibility is that not many of the NZ teams will make it past this coming weekend.

agree. the ABs players would be exhausted both physically and mentally. end of super cannot come quick enough.
seems anti climatic after the test series month of BIL rugby

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Apologies, if I sound OTT.

I already said I am an outsider. Not tied to any SR team or nation. My perspective is from far away, so I really don't care that much. My opinion (from a neutral standpoint) is one of amazement more than anything.

I consider SR one of the best, if not the best tournament in provincial rugby in the world, so not sure why any one team gets such an advantage, to be honest. Lions are getting a freebie if you ask me. No other way to look at it.

Well, I think everyone thinks the format is a lopsided heap off manure. The organizers have admitted as much with them reformatting the tournament mid-contract. We'll have to wait and see if the restructure is a step in the right direction.

Its a tough one to balance the different partners' priorities though along with financial imperatives; derbies supposedly bring in the most cash, Aus also wanted derbies to make up for a lack of domestic league while derbies mean less travel but then you have Argentina and Japan enter the fray since we want to expand the game and develop those teams and tap into those markets which mess up the travel factor again as well as symmetry the team numbers from different nations, SARU get bullied by the ANC to find a spot for the Kings, the tournament is spread across 4 different continents, time zones are a mess.. you get the idea. A fair tournament format doesn't exist. For years SA has had to carry the travel burden disproportionately. We still do. With the Sunwolves in the SA1 conference and the Jaguares also assured to play us every year the Stormers have for instance had literally double the kms traveled that the Blues do. Its gonna be unfair one way or the other no matter what.

No need to apologize. I apologize for being rude. Its just frustrating as a SA fan being in SR. We literally can't win without having to hear; Oh, it was travel, or the ref, or the format, or sickness or whatever it is easiest at hand.

 

[Nubiwan]

Well, I think everyone thinks the format is a lopsided heap off manure. The organizers have admitted as much with them reformatting the tournament mid-contract. We'll have to wait and see if the restructure is a step in the right direction.

Its a tough one to balance the different partners' priorities though along with financial imperatives; derbies supposedly bring in the most cash, Aus also wanted derbies to make up for a lack of domestic league while derbies mean less travel but then you have Argentina and Japan enter the fray since we want to expand the game and develop those teams and tap into those markets which mess up the travel factor again as well as symmetry the team numbers from different nations, SARU get bullied by the ANC to find a spot for the Kings, the tournament is spread across 4 different continents, time zones are a mess.. you get the idea. A fair tournament format doesn't exist. For years SA has had to carry the travel burden disproportionately. We still do. With the Sunwolves in the SA1 conference and the Jaguares also assured to play us every year the Stormers have for instance had literally double the kms traveled that the Blues do. Its gonna be unfair one way or the other no matter what.

No need to apologize. I apologize for being rude. Its just frustrating as a SA fan being in SR. We literally can't win without having to hear; Oh, it was travel, or the ref, or the format, or sickness or whatever it is easiest at hand.

Well explained. Pretty sure I do not understand what conferences happen to interlock either. Difficult old thing to organize I am sure. Bit diluted at present. Hard to justify the inclusion of the newer teams, certainly as far as extra travel is concerned. Who are the teams to be axed for 2018? That still happening.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

How can anyone suggest the lions are any good? The fixtures this year are skewed so much in their favour it's nothing short of embarassing again.

I take it you don't follow the RSA conferences much.
As the Lions don't get to play NZ sides, intuitively, the closest proxy is to compare how did the teams from RSA1 did against NZ and compare that to how they did vs the Lions.

Stormers (h) vs Chiefs ; 34-26
Stormers (h) vs Lions; 16-25

Lions (h) vs Bulls: 51-14
Chiefs (h) vs Bulls: 28-12

So in light of the facts presented above, i have one and only one question: what the fvck are you talking about? No offense intended, genuinely curious.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I apologize for being rude.

No need, we're used to that by now.