Super 15: Stormers vs Hurricanes. Newlands Stadium (25/2/2012, 15:05 GMT)

[Darwin]

Hurricanes team :
Taylor - Jane, Smith (C), Bateman, Leiua - Barrett, C.Eaton - Vito, Lam, Levave - J.Eaton, Thrush - May, Coles, Moran
Bench : Matu'u, Toomaga-Allen, Broadhurst, Shields, Perenara, Kirkpatrick, Ngatai

Not too far off what I predicted. Slightly surprised to see Broadhurst on the bench, as I thought he was the pick of the Canes locks last season. It is interesting to see that they have rushed Bateman straight into the starting 15 - him and Smith will form arguably the best passing midfield in world rugby, but neither are very physical players, so it will interesting to see how they go as a combination. Slightly surprised to see Leiua given the nod on the wing ahead of Savea. Savea was pretty poor last season (while Leiua was solid), but Savea has a far bigger upside than Leiua. I feel that Canes best chance of winning this game is to take a few risks and throw the ball around and Savea's ability to break the line would be a huge asset here - if they play a conservative game plan they have no chance against the Stormers. I'm really happy to see Taylor given the 15 jersey. Apparently Jane asked to play on the wing, and I feel he plays his best rugby there, while Taylor plays his best rugby at 15 where has more space to move.

Man-for-man I feel the Stormers have a better team. Neither team looks very strong in the front row, but I'm hoping that Dane Coles thrives on the extra game-time he will receive this season, as he has some good potential. Though Etzebeth is on debut I feel the Stormers have a slight edge at lock, largely because Bekker is phenomenally good at this level. Thrush can be good at times, but is frustratingly inconsistent, while Eaton is solid at this level. There should be a good battle among the loose-trios. Neither team has a anyone that is outstanding at the breakdown - indeed both opensides (Lam and Burger) are similar players (though Burger is the better player): both have phenomenal work-rates and offer strong ball running, good support play. I really rate Vermuleon (best 8 in South Africa in my opinion), and Vito excels this level too. It will be interesting to see how Koster and Levave go: both have all the physical attributes to excel at this level, but I feel Koster plays a bit too loose, while Levave is very inconsistent - he can be exceptional one minute, then anonymous for the next 20 mins, and is also very hit and miss on defense (though when he hits people know about it!).

I feel the Stormers have a very slight edge in the halves. I rate Duvenhage highly as he delivers clean ball to the backs, and seems to read the game well. In contrast Eatons distribution is poor, though he is a running threat from the base. I'm really looking forward to see Barrett at this level as he is phenomenally talent, however he is unlikely to get much quality ball to work with. The mid-field battle should be interesting: I'm a bit worries whether Bateman will be able to contain de Villiers power or Habana's pace, as defense has never been a strong point for Bateman. I expect that the Canes themselves will be attacking in Habana's channel, as he has a habit of running of the line, and is largely unfamiliar with the defensive requirements of centre. Aplon v Jane will be a great battle on one wing.

After writing all that I'm slightly more confident in the Canes chances, but i still think the Stormers should win this by around 15 points.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Only one thing makes me a bit nervous for this game and that is Habana at 13. Other than that our only real weakness is our front row but we shouldn't get found out in that department against the 'Canes who aren't the strongest scrummagers themselves.

 

[Dizzy]

I have to disagree. Savea still has alot to prove at this level and Leiua was one of the few good ball runners last year. He's also a strong player and given space can do some damage. Habana, is not a centre, He isn't a known distributor. Habana is only good with space and when he uses his gas. Unfortunately for him, he has arguably the best defensive centre in the world marking him so getting space and trying to put players into gaps is going to be hard for him.

I think Vito and Lam will be immense in this game and will really set the tone for the Canes fowards, I think these two will be able to match their counterparts and even have the edge. Vito with his running game and Lam with his defensive work. Levave has a lower work rate so I wouldn't include him to do much damage but he does have his moments.

I guess the pressure is on Jane and Taylor to continue the dazzling backline play that the Canes are known for, and that in itself is a big onus.

I'm still hoping for a Canes win and I think if they play smartly, they will come out with a victory.

 

[psychic duck]

any Stormers fans missing this guy? I think he may have got even fatter

 

[igziabeher]

Lyon is a city where you can eat very good food

 

[Seaton]

Om Nom Nom Nom!

 

[nickdnz]

I have to disagree. Savea still has alot to prove at this level and Leiua was one of the few good ball runners last year. He's also a strong player and given space can do some damage. Habana, is not a centre, He isn't a known distributor. Habana is only good with space and when he uses his gas. Unfortunately for him, he has arguably the best defensive centre in the world marking him so getting space and trying to put players into gaps is going to be hard for him.

I think Vito and Lam will be immense in this game and will really set the tone for the Canes fowards, I think these two will be able to match their counterparts and even have the edge. Vito with his running game and Lam with his defensive work. Levave has a lower work rate so I wouldn't include him to do much damage but he does have his moments.

I guess the pressure is on Jane and Taylor to continue the dazzling backline play that the Canes are known for, and that in itself is a big onus.

I'm still hoping for a Canes win and I think if they play smartly, they will come out with a victory.

Disagree on Leiua. He looks like he could be made into a good centre but there is no way he looks to have the out and out gas to be a dangerous option on the wing. He's far too slow and it's frustrated me to no end as a Hurricanes and Lions fan. Savea clearly has his problems on defense and handling, but the reality is he has far more potential than Leiua and is one of the few players that could turn it around for the Canes (as Darwin said). I think they need every bit of x-factor they can get, considering how much they lost.

Not too far off what I predicted. Slightly surprised to see Broadhurst on the bench, as I thought he was the pick of the Canes locks last season. It is interesting to see that they have rushed Bateman straight into the starting 15 - him and Smith will form arguably the best passing midfield in world rugby, but neither are very physical players, so it will interesting to see how they go as a combination. Slightly surprised to see Leiua given the nod on the wing ahead of Savea. Savea was pretty poor last season (while Leiua was solid), but Savea has a far bigger upside than Leiua. I feel that Canes best chance of winning this game is to take a few risks and throw the ball around and Savea's ability to break the line would be a huge asset here - if they play a conservative game plan they have no chance against the Stormers. I'm really happy to see Taylor given the 15 jersey. Apparently Jane asked to play on the wing, and I feel he plays his best rugby there, while Taylor plays his best rugby at 15 where has more space to move.

Man-for-man I feel the Stormers have a better team. Neither team looks very strong in the front row, but I'm hoping that Dane Coles thrives on the extra game-time he will receive this season, as he has some good potential. Though Etzebeth is on debut I feel the Stormers have a slight edge at lock, largely because Bekker is phenomenally good at this level. Thrush can be good at times, but is frustratingly inconsistent, while Eaton is solid at this level. There should be a good battle among the loose-trios. Neither team has a anyone that is outstanding at the breakdown - indeed both opensides (Lam and Burger) are similar players (though Burger is the better player): both have phenomenal work-rates and offer strong ball running, good support play. I really rate Vermuleon (best 8 in South Africa in my opinion), and Vito excels this level too. It will be interesting to see how Koster and Levave go: both have all the physical attributes to excel at this level, but I feel Koster plays a bit too loose, while Levave is very inconsistent - he can be exceptional one minute, then anonymous for the next 20 mins, and is also very hit and miss on defense (though when he hits people know about it!).

I feel the Stormers have a very slight edge in the halves. I rate Duvenhage highly as he delivers clean ball to the backs, and seems to read the game well. In contrast Eatons distribution is poor, though he is a running threat from the base. I'm really looking forward to see Barrett at this level as he is phenomenally talent, however he is unlikely to get much quality ball to work with. The mid-field battle should be interesting: I'm a bit worries whether Bateman will be able to contain de Villiers power or Habana's pace, as defense has never been a strong point for Bateman. I expect that the Canes themselves will be attacking in Habana's channel, as he has a habit of running of the line, and is largely unfamiliar with the defensive requirements of centre. Aplon v Jane will be a great battle on one wing.

After writing all that I'm slightly more confident in the Canes chances, but i still think the Stormers should win this by around 15 points.

Agree with all of that. Broadhurst was actually my suprise player of the Hurricanes last season. Massive work rate and good athleticism. I think he should start as well.

As I said, I agree that Savea should have started. He has a lot of potential and can turn the game on its head in a way that Leiua can't. Also, if he doesn't get more starts I can see him leaving next season to another franchise, and we'll lose another young player to follow Cruden, Fruean and Guildford.

I always liked Cory Jane at fullback, I thought he was very under rated. With that being said, Taylor is far better at fullback than on the wing and Cory Jane is a world class wing.

I'm still fairly confident in Stormers beating the Hurricanes by some margin. I got an early night last night but couldn't get to sleep, which ended in me getting only an hour and a half sleep because I woke up at 6:00am thinking the Sharks v Bulls game was the Stormers v Hurricanes game and I couldn't get back to sleep (though the first 25 min of the game did help somewhat >.>).

 

[Darwin]

Disagree on Leiua. He looks like he could be made into a good centre but there is no way he looks to have the out and out gas to be a dangerous option on the wing. He's far too slow and it's frustrated me to no end as a Hurricanes and Lions fan. Savea clearly has his problems on defense and handling, but the reality is he has far more potential than Leiua and is one of the few players that could turn it around for the Canes (as Darwin said). I think they need every bit of x-factor they can get, considering how much they lost.

That is my biggest issue with Leiua too. As you know, I'm quite a fan of high workrate / low error rate wings (and I think Leiua fits this category), but I do think these players also need to have some attribute that allows them to make a positive contribution on attack. For example Howlett was what I'd consider 'safe' wings, but because of his express pace/quality support play he was a world class wing, despite not being that devastating with ball in hand. I think Leiua is ok at Super Rugby level... but I don't think he is ever going to be anything other than ok (but I'd be happy to be proven wrong!).

BTW: I'm getting a bit bored of constantly agreeing with you lately - I miss the 'good old days' when we had a few robust debates about the value (or otherwise) of Hosea Gear (I off course love the mighty Highlanders wing Hosea Gear now...)

Agree with all of that. Broadhurst was actually my suprise player of the Hurricanes last season. Massive work rate and good athleticism. I think he should start as well.

As I said, I agree that Savea should have started. He has a lot of potential and can turn the game on its head in a way that Leiua can't. Also, if he doesn't get more starts I can see him leaving next season to another franchise, and we'll lose another young player to follow Cruden, Fruean and Guildford.

I always liked Cory Jane at fullback, I thought he was very under rated. With that being said, Taylor is far better at fullback than on the wing and Cory Jane is a world class wing.

I'm still fairly confident in Stormers beating the Hurricanes by some margin. I got an early night last night but couldn't get to sleep, which ended in me getting only an hour and a half sleep because I woke up at 6:00am thinking the Sharks v Bulls game was the Stormers v Hurricanes game and I couldn't get back to sleep (though the first 25 min of the game did help somewhat >.>).

He would look good in Green next season (once he has learnt how to catch, tackle) Perhaps I'm being a bit greedy though - we already have Kade Poki, the promising Telusa Veainu, and a few Wellington/Canes 'rejects' (Ellison, Popoalii - who could well break through this season, and some guy called H. Gear).

 

[nickdnz]

He would look good in Green next season (once he has learnt how to catch, tackle) Perhaps I'm being a bit greedy though - we already have Kade Poki, the promising Telusa Veainu, and a few Wellington/Canes 'rejects' (Ellison, Popoalii - who could well break through this season, and some guy called H. Gear).

With Hammett there I'm sure he may well get his chance. He's certainly not been renowned for keeping talent.

I'll still be hoping Gear is the leading try scorer this competition. I think he has the finishing ability and physicality that the Highlanders backs will really be able to thrive off. With such a good, dry home stadium as well, no doubt this could be his best season. Anything to get him in the All Blacks where he belongs.

Out of interest (maybe just stirring) who would be your likely choice for an All Black back three? For me it has to be Gear, Jane, Dagg, Maitland and Toeava with Kahui on reserve at centre. That being said, we'll see how this season plays out first. Rudi Wulf had a strong game for the Blues, but still not as convinced as you are about an All Black call up.

 

[William18]

Savea can't leave the Hurricanes. He has two years left on his contract.

 

[Darwin]

With Hammett there I'm sure he may well get his chance. He's certainly not been renowned for keeping talent.

I'll still be hoping Gear is the leading try scorer this competition. I think he has the finishing ability and physicality that the Highlanders backs will really be able to thrive off. With such a good, dry home stadium as well, no doubt this could be his best season. Anything to get him in the All Blacks where he belongs.

Out of interest (maybe just stirring) who would be your likely choice for an All Black back three? For me it has to be Gear, Jane, Dagg, Maitland and Toeava with Kahui on reserve at centre. That being said, we'll see how this season plays out first. Rudi Wulf had a strong game for the Blues, but still not as convinced as you are about an All Black call up.

Hard to pick at this stage of the season, but it would be hard to go past the incumbent trio of Kahui, Jane, and Dagg. Though I was not initially convinced about using Kahui on the wing, he was outstanding there during the RWC (and always seems to step-up for the AB's). Toeava would be my backup fullback (though only just ahead of Ben Smith), while Guildford, Gear, and Ranger would be my next couple of choices (in that order - though I wouldn't object to giving Guildford a year off international rugby / an uppercut). As I've said many times before, I don't think there is much between the top wings in the country, so I could possibly even see Masaga, Poki, Maitland or Wulf come into contention.

I'm not a big fan of Maitland - sure he is fast (I'd say the fastest in the country) and is quite strong, but his work-rate is very poor. He often just sits on his wing and waits for the ball to come to him - it generally works at the end of the Crusaders backline, but at test level I think he could be a liability. He is also a bit average on defence at times. I'm not promoting Wulf for AB's selection.... yet. He was great in his last season for the Blues, and looked very good for them again last night (can't comment on his form in France). A strong season with the Blues could see him in line for AB's selection.

Anyway.... back on topic.... Anyone know what the weather is going to be like for this match?

 

[Seaton]

How the **** are the Hurricanes still in this?

Oh wait, I know why. The Stormers are crap. >=)

 

[Darwin]

Just caught a replay of the game. The Stormers could well have run away with it, but some sloppy play in the middle stages (and some good play by the Canes), let the Hurricanes back into the game. The Hurricanes seemed to get penalized at almost every scrum, which was a surprise to me, as I didn't expect the Stormers scrum to be that great.... this is something the Canes need to sort out quickly (though don't really have many options...).

For the Stormers I was very impressed with Eztebeth with ball in hand, he seemed to break quite a few tackles. He wasn't needed at the lineout at all though, as they simply kept throwing the ball to Bekker (and the Canes struggled to stop that). The Stormers will be hoping the injury to Burger (knee?) is not too serious. Joe Pietersen looked sharp at the back, and I felt he was unlucky not to be rewarded with a try near the end. Hard to comment on Habana's performance at centre, as I can't recall him touching the ball all game!

For the Canes the obvious standout was Barrett. He seems to step up whatever level he is playing, and if he continues to do this he may well be wearing black by the end of the season. Tim Bateman was handy at 12 too. Not the worst performance by the Canes though - they will need to show improvement if they want to knock-over the Lions next weekend..

 

[Icemn]

yip, i was suprised by the canes performance... i didn't think they will be able to carry on with the likes of past Hurricanes performances...i mean, the canes over the year have had very avg forwards and excellent backs.. so IF (and that is a big if) the forwards do manage to recycle some ball...the backs are likely to score each time...

and this miraculously is still the case!!!

barrett and bateman, the standouts (i have them in my fantasy )!!! followed by taylor and jane(i have jane too )... lmk

the forwards need to work on their scrums...eish and lineout... hell they need to work on everything...

we also had a try disallowed... that would have given the canes confidence to win the game...

i always knew the canes were going to give them a run for their money... even the bias SA commentators got quiet lmk

 

[Amobokoboko]

Just saw the highlights, the Canes played better then expected and that one try could have made the difference.

 

[Larksea]

I havn't seen the game yet I think it's on mysky+ so I'll check it out.

but I think for Barrett to basically be man of the match in his first game and that being an away game to the stormers is pretty damn special. There is a lot of hype about this guy. He's already made a big impact in NZ. I can see him leapfroging Cruden & Slade into the All Blacks pretty damn soon.

The way he's come in and made such a huge impact is very dan carter like, I think he already broke an NPC record when he kicked something like 11 penalties in a game?

lot of people backing the canes to have a disaster season. But as long as Barret is fit they will win enough games to stay at least mid table.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I havn't seen the game yet I think it's on mysky+ so I'll check it out.

but I think for Barrett to basically be man of the match in his first game and that being an away game to the stormers is pretty damn special. There is a lot of hype about this guy. He's already made a big impact in NZ. I can see him leapfroging Cruden & Slade into the All Blacks pretty damn soon.

The way he's come in and made such a huge impact is very dan carter like, I think he already broke an NPC record when he kicked something like 11 penalties in a game?

lot of people backing the canes to have a disaster season. But as long as Barret is fit they will win enough games to stay at least mid table.

Barrett singlehandedly (allright Bateman had to be in the right place at the right time as well) kept the Hurricanes in the game where they should have been totally out of it by the 30 minute mark. Keeping it close also meant the Stormers went for the poles rather and that kept us away from a bonus point in the end. You wouldn't have thought that this game was his 1st Superrugby match; he looked very composed and able.

Conversely I thought Van Aswegen did a pretty bad job for the Stormers. Not so much out-and-out blunders but jut not putting De Villiers in any position to actually do anything and some bad decision making here and there. Luckily I read Grant is done in Japan and is in Cape Town and he'll possibly be on the bench next week against the Sharks.

 

[Darwin]

Barrett singlehandedly (allright Bateman had to be in the right place at the right time as well) kept the Hurricanes in the game where they should have been totally out of it by the 30 minute mark. Keeping it close also meant the Stormers went for the poles rather and that kept us away from a bonus point in the end. You wouldn't have thought that this game was his 1st Superrugby match; he looked very composed and able.

I wasn't quite his first Super Rugby match - he played 3-4 games off the bench last season - but your point certainly remains valid! He just seems so comfortable at whatever level he is playing at - it is unfortunate for him that he is stuck behind the Hurricanes pack...

Conversely I thought Van Aswegen did a pretty bad job for the Stormers. Not so much out-and-out blunders but jut not putting De Villiers in any position to actually do anything and some bad decision making here and there. Luckily I read Grant is done in Japan and is in Cape Town and he'll possibly be on the bench next week against the Sharks.

I wasn't impressed with Van Aswegen either. He wasn't a threat at all with ball in hand (did he even have a go himself?), meaning the defense simply drifted off him onto de Villiers. He comes across as a kicking 10 - but his kicking wasn't really required with Duvenhage doing a lot of the Stormers kicking. I think the Stormers will benefit from having Grant back; apart from kicking distance he seems a much better player than Van Aswegen.

 

[nickdnz]

I wasn't quite his first Super Rugby match - he played 3-4 games off the bench last season - but your point certainly remains valid! He just seems so comfortable at whatever level he is playing at - it is unfortunate for him that he is stuck behind the Hurricanes pack...

I wasn't impressed with Van Aswegen either. He wasn't a threat at all with ball in hand (did he even have a go himself?), meaning the defense simply drifted off him onto de Villiers. He comes across as a kicking 10 - but his kicking wasn't really required with Duvenhage doing a lot of the Stormers kicking. I think the Stormers will benefit from having Grant back; apart from kicking distance he seems a much better player than Van Aswegen.

I'm sure you think he'd fit right in with the Highlanders pack.

It's great to lose Aaron Cruden and still be able to have Barrett. He really is the Hurricanes best hope of having a class All Black at some point. I think it's important not to get too carried away though, he looks great at this stage but that doesn't guarentee he'll be as good next week or the week after. That being said, if he continues with this form I wouldn't mind seeing him behind Daniel Carter in the AB's for the Tri Nations/EoYT.

 

[Darwin]

I'm sure you think he'd fit right in with the Highlanders pack.

It's great to lose Aaron Cruden and still be able to have Barrett. He really is the Hurricanes best hope of having a class All Black at some point. I think it's important not to get too carried away though, he looks great at this stage but that doesn't guarentee he'll be as good next week or the week after. That being said, if he continues with this form I wouldn't mind seeing him behind Daniel Carter in the AB's for the Tri Nations/EoYT.

I hadn't actually thought about that, but if Hammett doesn't want him I'm sure we could find a place for him down here

Given the huge number of 10's that have left NZ in the last year (Berquist, Brett, Delany, Donald, McAlister et al.) there isn't actually a huge amount of depth at 10 in NZ right now. Cruden and Slade are the next two 10's after Carter (and Weepu can play 10), but behind that we have........ umm...... Sopoaga? Noakes? Bleyendaal? Tom Taylor? Kirkpatrick? Horrell? Hobbs? Anscombe? Despite only having started a single Super Rugby game, I think Barrett would be the next 10 in line, which is quite scary when you think about it! Fortunately I think he has the temperament to handle the step up to test level despite his young age, and given Carter seems to be getting injured more frequently these days, and Slade can't walk on the field without getting injured, Barrett may well be required sometime this year.