Sunwolves Reprieve?

[barkinghooker]

Honestly give Japan to the 6N's IMO

Do you think Japan could win in Georgia post world cup when the buzz has fizzled out a little ?

I think Japan's rise is arterficial and they'll get hammered by England next July on tour.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Do you think Japan could win in Georgia post world cup when the buzz has fizzled out a little ?

I think Japan's rise is arterficial and they'll get hammered by England next July on tour.

England could probably smash them now...not sure what the wait for july is going to do,

yes i think Japan are better than Georgia...they beat them IN Georgia in 2018 28-0

in the past four years they have beaten Ireland, Scotland, RSA, Italy, drawn with france and lost to wales by only 3 points...thats on top of regularly beating the PI's

i'm not sure what else they have to do

 

[barkinghooker]

England could probably smash them now...not sure what the wait for july is going to do,

yes i think Japan are better than Georgia...they beat them IN Georgia in 2018 28-0

in the past four years they have beaten Ireland, Scotland, RSA, Italy, drawn with france and lost to wales by only 3 points...thats on top of regularly beating the PI's

i'm not sure what else they have to do

Alright. I'll give you that 28-0.

How about a different approach ? Give Asian rugby a push and use Japan as the standard to grow in that region for other nations to aspire to.

Japan will get tier 1 summer tests and more than one EOYT. That could be three to seven tier 1 tests a year which is probably plenty.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Alright. I'll give you that 28-0.

How about a different approach ? Give Asian rugby a push and use Japan as the standard to grow in that region for other nations to aspire to.

Japan will get tier 1 summer tests and more than one EOYT. That could be three to seven tier 1 tests a year which is probably plenty.

im not a fan of all the friendlies we play in rugby, real growth comes from the competitions, actually playing to win something or at least improve on last time

 

[barkinghooker]

im not a fan of all the friendlies we play in rugby, real growth comes from the competitions, actually playing to win something or at least improve on last time

I had a quick look at the rankings and geographically Hong Kong, Korea and the Philippines are closest to Japan.

Hong Kong could end up doing a Japan and wanting to join a premier annual competition too?

I don't think a participation in the 6 nations would benefit the 6 nation's.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Rugby Championship seems a more likely fit to me, time zones makes more sense than NH and SH.

I think an international team needs a domestic comp to provide players, Japan has a good one (even with lots of expats) and its slowly paying off, those other countries need to establish something, maybe having teams play in the Japanese comp, before they can expect to climb the world rankings

 

[TRF_heineken]

Rugby Championship seems a more likely fit to me, time zones makes more sense than NH and SH.

I think an international team needs a domestic comp to provide players, Japan has a good one (even with lots of expats) and its slowly paying off, those other countries need to establish something, maybe having teams play in the Japanese comp, before they can expect to climb the world rankings

I think that's just one part of the issue. It seems to me, that the SH and specifically SANZAAR was/is more welcoming towards the Japan Rugby Union, and has been trying to be accomodating towards them and it appears that it was the JPRU that had issues, not the other way around. Would the European teams be equally/more accomodating towards Japan?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't think a participation in the 6 nations would benefit the 6 nation's.

Why? They're better than Georgia/Italy so would raise the quality of opposition and would also bring in significantly more advertising/TV revenue.
The only downside is the logistical nightmare (which is the same for 6N and TRC)

 

[mdaclarke]

People forget that Japan is geographically closer to the 6N Argentina and South Africa

For all the talk I don't see Japan or Fiji joining the RC

 

[The Seeker]

im not a fan of all the friendlies we play in rugby, real growth comes from the competitions, actually playing to win something or at least improve on last time

I agree with you once again.

 

[barkinghooker]

Why? They're better than Georgia/Italy so would raise the quality of opposition and would also bring in significantly more advertising/TV revenue.
The only downside is the logistical nightmare (which is the same for 6N and TRC)

As much as I've enjoyed the Japan ride I believe their form is arterficial and they'll be on the end of spankings similar to Japan in the 6 nation's.

Everything has been about this world cup for Japan. It's going to fizzle out a little bit by the next time they play.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

As much as I've enjoyed the Japan ride I believe their form is arterficial and they'll be on the end of spankings similar to Japan in the 6 nation's.

Everything has been about this world cup for Japan. It's going to fizzle out a little bit by the next time they play.

You honestly think the last four or five years is just a bubble?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As much as I've enjoyed the Japan ride I believe their form is arterficial and they'll be on the end of spankings similar to Japan in the 6 nation's.

Everything has been about this world cup for Japan. It's going to fizzle out a little bit by the next time they play.

What makes you think that?
Georgia get routinely spanked by Scotland/Italy and got nilled by Japan last time they played.
You have to go back to 2014 for a decent Georgia result (and ironically that was a narrow home win over Japan).

Even if Japan drop off after this world cup they'll still be better than Georgia.

 

[barkinghooker]

What makes you think that?
Georgia get routinely spanked by Scotland/Italy and got nilled by Japan last time they played.
You have to go back to 2014 for a decent Georgia result (and ironically that was a narrow home win over Japan).

Even if Japan drop off after this world cup they'll still be better than Georgia.

I don't even want Georgia joining the 6 nation's either.

http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/match_results.html? id=2019;team=23;type=year

Japan's results every year. Their form since 2015 against tier 1 teams is poor and a lot more solid in 2019.

I think world rugby should find other Asian projects and build the region using the Japan model for other nations to aspire to.

Looking at the rankings and some recent results Korea And Hong Kong could be in a similar position to Japan in 4-8 years.

The argument that joining premier international competitions benefits a growing international team can be mooted by referencing Italy in the 6 nation's and possibly Argentina in the Rugby Championship.

I hope rugby grows in the Americas and Argentina play there instead.

We still don't even need 20 teams in a world cup yet.

 

[barkinghooker]

You honestly think the last four or five years is just a bubble?

No. I think 2019 has been a bubble.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I don't even want Georgia joining the 6 nation's either.

http://stats.espnscrum.com/scrum/rugby/records/team/match_results.html? id=2019;team=23;type=year

Japan's results every year. Their form since 2015 against tier 1 teams is poor and a lot more solid in 2019.

I think world rugby should find other Asian projects and build the region using the Japan model for other nations to aspire to.

Looking at the rankings and some recent results Korea And Hong Kong could be in a similar position to Japan in 4-8 years.

The argument that joining premier international competitions benefits a growing international team can be mooted by referencing Italy in the 6 nation's and possibly Argentina in the Rugby Championship.

I hope rugby grows in the Americas and Argentina play there instead.

We still don't even need 20 teams in a world cup yet.

You and I read those results differently

2015 beat rsa
2016 only lost to wales by 3 points
2017 drew with France
2018 beat Italy
2019 beat Ireland and Scotland

that looks like growth to me

are those better result than Italy?

Ad to that they consistently beat the team of their tier...they need challenge, the chance to step up

 

[barkinghooker]

You and I read those results differently

2015 beat rsa
2016 only lost to wales by 3 points
2017 drew with France
2018 beat Italy
2019 beat Ireland and Scotland

that looks like growth to me

are those better result than Italy?

Ad to that they consistently beat the team of their tier...they need challenge, the chance to step up

I saw a home series loss against Scotland in 2016 and a huge home spanking by Argentina.

2017 I saw a home series loss to Ireland and a 60 point spanking by Australia.

2018 was a home series draw with Italy and a surprising 28-0 win in Georgia.

2019 Japan were great in 2019. Ireland and Scotland were terrible but Japan took their chances and deserved the QF spot.
And as great as they were in 2019 they got spanked by South Africa twice.

12 players unlikely to make it to the next world cup.

The hype of 2019 will fade out. They've got the Olympics next year..

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pushed us close at Twickenham for the the first hour - think it was 16-15 before we ran in a few tries late on when conditioning came into play

The hype of 2019 will fade out. They've got the Olympics next year..

And they're launching a new club system off of the back of it. They're doing everything right atm, and are growing - I don't get why you're so down on them. Of any of the Tier 2 sides they're the only one who's shown consistent improvement over the last RWC cycle and picked up a number of big scalps.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I saw a home series loss against Scotland in 2016 and a huge home spanking by Argentina.

2017 I saw a home series loss to Ireland and a 60 point spanking by Australia.

2018 was a home series draw with Italy and a surprising 28-0 win in Georgia.

2019 Japan were great in 2019. Ireland and Scotland were terrible but Japan took their chances and deserved the QF spot.


12 players unlikely to make it to the next world cup.

The hype of 2019 will fade out. They've got the Olympics next year..

is it exhausting being that pessimistic ?

 

[barkinghooker]

is it exhausting being that pessimistic ?

Hardly pessimism. Why are you optimistic about a team who consistently don't win at least their home games ?

What happens if Romania and Samoa qualify for the quarter finals of the 2023 world cup ? Should there be a debate they must be wedged in to another championship?