Steve Tew getting the excuses in

[LittleGuy]

Unfortunately, it's not an issue of fat cutting, it's a issue of not making any money during the world cup. No sponsors = no money except for what the IRB decides to dole out.

If no sponsors during the WC, then there needs to be more tournaments/tours but that still doesn't help the Pacific Nations who experience more costs than others because they have extra travel distance and all potential sponsors will have to be foreign as they are very small countries. Pretty much will only receive sponsorship if they play a few bigger teams during tours. Pacific Islander nations have to be very creative with generating funds.
Rugby in Canada is improving as the grassroots movement is rapidly increasing and as you pointed out, media coverage is increasing.

As well the Pacific Islands have smaller home stadiums and even when hosting matches don't rake in the financial benefits that packing Twickenham, and Eden Park would.

 

[Intent]

Unfortunately, it's not an issue of fat cutting, it's a issue of not making any money during the world cup. No sponsors = no money except for what the IRB decides to dole out.

If no sponsors during the WC, then there needs to be more tournaments/tours but that still doesn't help the Pacific Nations who experience more costs than others because they have extra travel distance and all potential sponsors will have to be foreign as they are very small countries. Pretty much will only receive sponsorship if they play a few bigger teams during tours. Pacific Islander nations have to be very creative with generating funds.
Rugby in Canada is improving as the grassroots movement is rapidly increasing and as you pointed out, media coverage is increasing.

I understand that they lose sponsorship revenue, my point is that, under the current system, is there fat cutting they can do to compensate? It's not like the IRB has dropped out of the blue, "Oh, we're having this huge, long World Cup and you gets no money" but it happens every four years. If you know that you're going to be out $8 mil one year then perhaps you should be organizing (or cutting) something to make up for that in the intervening years. I wouldn't want to see programs cut like everyone else but this just seems like financial ineptitude.

 

[Canucks]

I understand that they lose sponsorship revenue, my point is that, under the current system, is there fat cutting they can do to compensate? It's not like the IRB has dropped out of the blue, "Oh, we're having this huge, long World Cup and you gets no money" but it happens every four years. If you know that you're going to be out $8 mil one year then perhaps you should be organizing (or cutting) something to make up for that in the intervening years. I wouldn't want to see programs cut like everyone else but this just seems like financial ineptitude.

Love that last part, seems spot on. It sounds like the only sort of fat cutting could be tests against smaller nations. I don't get how professional rugby club apparently fail financially but if there's such a failure at the international level then it wouldn't surprise me to see something similar on a domestic level.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

As well the Pacific Islands have smaller home stadiums and even when hosting matches don't rake in the financial benefits that packing Twickenham, and Eden Park would.

And the Pacific Islands don't have to pay their players anywhere near the market rates demanded by player agents for New Zealand players. Also, they don't have any significant domestic competitions and development programs to protect.

Has this thread turned into Canadians know New Zealand and what's best for it or something?

 

[Canucks]

And the Pacific Islands don't have to pay their players anywhere near the market rates demanded by player agents for New Zealand players. Also, they don't have any significant domestic competitions and development programs to protect.

Has this thread turned into Canadians know New Zealand and what's best for it or something?

This thread was never about what's best for New Zealand. The article brought up valid points that reasonate numerous issues that other nations have, New Zealand aren't the only ones who have a problem with how the RWC is done and there is a definate trickle down effect. We're pretty much discussing the current financial model of the IRB and how it's ineffective as evident by issues other countries like the Pacific Nations.

Sorry, didn't realise that there was a country lock on the thread. I saw numerous people from top10 countries mindlessly slagging off NZRU when they clearly didn't even read the article. Whereas we have actually read it and are discussing what we think about it.

 

[LittleGuy]

"And the Pacific Islands don't have to pay their players anywhere near the market rates demanded by player agents for New Zealand players. Also, they don't have any significant domestic competitions and development programs to protect." Agreed very valid point but.....

Has this thread turned into Canadians know New Zealand and what's best for it or something?

Seriously where does this last comment come from, if anything Canadians on here have beeen defending NZ rugby. You guys ***** about everyone disliking you and than you pull this crap out? Go BOKS!!!!

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

"And the Pacific Islands don't have to pay their players anywhere near the market rates demanded by player agents for New Zealand players. Also, they don't have any significant domestic competitions and development programs to protect." Agreed very valid point but.....

Has this thread turned into Canadians know New Zealand and what's best for it or something?

Seriously where does this last comment come from, if anything Canadians on here have beeen defending NZ rugby. You guys ***** about everyone disliking you and than you pull this crap out? Go BOKS!!!!

Everyone complains about New Zealanders getting their panties in a bunch over one or two comments, well you just did it too.

Some of you guys were going on about the so-called financial ineptitude of our rugby administration and have zero idea what your talking about. So, now it's me firing the first shot? I merely asked if that's what the thread was after four in a row canadian members discussing our apparently useless administration.

Asking what the thread has now become hardly constitutes a direct insult. Where did I say canadians commenting was a bad thing? All I said was that it appearing to me to become a canadian discussion from afar of an understanding of the inner-workings of New Zealand rugby.

Don't pretend any of you ever wanted New Zealand to do well at anything, as a real or even a casual one doesn't drop their bundle over one persons comment in one single line of text.

I still like Canadian rugby and some of the players I've got to see over the World Cup. Maybe it's because I can separate fans and the team itself. Keep petty support like that to yourself if that's all you've got and give it to the boks or whoever, so you can then drop them when the first fan calls you out.

They say New Zealand fans are precious about things? That's the only thing I've ever said that could even be mildly construed as something negative about canadian fans and wow look at the reaction.

 

[smartcooky]

Fat cutting aye...?

Junior All Blacks competing in Pacific Nations Cup.... CUT
NZ Maori... CUT
Super Rugby "B" competition... CUT

What's left?

ITM CUP
Super Rugby
ALL Blacks

Which of these would you like us to cut?

 

[LittleGuy]

Fat cutting aye...?

Junior All Blacks competing in Pacific Nations Cup.... CUT
NZ Maori... CUT
Super Rugby "B" competition... CUT

What's left?

ITM CUP
Super Rugby
ALL Blacks

Which of these would you like us to cut?

No one suggested you cut anything Intent asked is their "any fat" that can be cut. If the answer is no than so be it, my comment was about Pacific Islanders having smaller venues and apparently I was being anti NZ.

LOL the even more hilariuos thing is you were defending Intent's post eariler as being the only one that understood the article. But uh oh, an NZer has started a fight INTO THE BUNKER!!!!!!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Fat cutting aye...?

Junior All Blacks competing in Pacific Nations Cup.... CUT
NZ Maori... CUT
Super Rugby "B" competition... CUT

What's left?

ITM CUP
Super Rugby
ALL Blacks

Which of these would you like us to cut?

The All Blacks - preferably sooner rather than later......Romania can take their position in the Quarter Finals

 

[LittleGuy]

LOL did one of my posts vanish? I had a response to Iverson and now it's gone, thats fine Canadian posters shouldn't be posting in here anyways....

I actually stayed out of this thread until I thought it had cooled off but somehow revealing the relatively small size of Island venues is "off limits".

Edit: Now that I've cooled off, I must say absolutely crap timing Iverson, posting a pretty condescending comment like that at the same time our exhausted Canadian boys just got their asses kicked and Kleeberger, DTH received bad injuries. Very poor, what did you expect? If I took a crap like that all over Latvian or Belarussian Ice Hockey fans right after Canada beat them 10-1, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't very happy with me. If you like how our team has played so far you wouldn't have belittled the supporters so soon after a dissapointing result.

 

[TRF C A Iversen]

LOL did one of my posts vanish? I had a response to Iverson and now it's gone, thats fine Canadian posters shouldn't be posting in here anyways....

I actually stayed out of this thread until I thought it had cooled off but somehow revealing the relatively small size of Island venues is "off limits".

Edit: Now that I've cooled off, I must say absolutely crap timing Iverson, posting a pretty condescending comment like that at the same time our exhausted Canadian boys just got their asses kicked and Kleeberger, DTH received bad injuries. Very poor, what did you expect? If I took a crap like that all over Latvian or Belarussian Ice Hockey fans right after Canada beat them 10-1, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't very happy with me. If you like how our team has played so far you wouldn't have belittled the supporters so soon after a dissapointing result.

Come off it. This thread has nothing to do with that game. Will there be a time limit before people can put the boot back into New Zealand if we dip out of the cup? No, and it's more important to New Zealand as a whole than it'll ever be to Canada. That's the weakest point of the day, but you don't win a prize.

Canada played very well today for most of the game and deserve to hold their heads up high after a good effort in general in the cup. They beat a side that beat France, that in itself was something to be cheered up about. Whether or not there are injuries it's got nothing to do with me or this thread.

Why I deleted your post? You can't go around saying something about other members that isn't true. I never said that Canadians can't post in this thread. Making my words whatever you want them to be and passing it off as fact isn't something I'm going to let go. Facts aren't something you make up as you go along.

What the heck are you talking about the small size of island venues and that revealing that is "off limits" I haven't even read anything about that. If it's in that post I deleted, I stopped reading it after you started to make up the idea that I was saying Canadians can't post here. Didn't say that, still haven't. Although surprisingly, you said so in your last post.

See saying that is lying. Why's it okay for you to tell them?

 

[smartcooky]

Island Venues small?


Apia Park, Apia, Samoa. Capacity 15,000

TFL National Stadium, Suva, Fiji. Capacity 30,000

Teufaiva Sport Stadium, Nuku'alofa, Tonga. Capacity 11,000 (What other country in the world will you find a stadium with enough capacity to take over 10% of the population of the entire country??!!!)

 

[Canucks]

Everyone complains about New Zealanders getting their panties in a bunch over one or two comments, well you just did it too.

Some of you guys were going on about the so-called financial ineptitude of our rugby administration and have zero idea what your talking about. So, now it's me firing the first shot? I merely asked if that's what the thread was after four in a row canadian members discussing our apparently useless administration.

Asking what the thread has now become hardly constitutes a direct insult. Where did I say canadians commenting was a bad thing? All I said was that it appearing to me to become a canadian discussion from afar of an understanding of the inner-workings of New Zealand rugby.

Don't pretend any of you ever wanted New Zealand to do well at anything, as a real or even a casual one doesn't drop their bundle over one persons comment in one single line of text.

I still like Canadian rugby and some of the players I've got to see over the World Cup. Maybe it's because I can separate fans and the team itself. Keep petty support like that to yourself if that's all you've got and give it to the boks or whoever, so you can then drop them when the first fan calls you out.

They say New Zealand fans are precious about things? That's the only thing I've ever said that could even be mildly construed as something negative about canadian fans and wow look at the reaction.

I suggest you read all of our posts again and then come back and tell me how saying that IRB is financially inept is saying how NZRU is financially inept. For my part, all I did was agree that the IRB is financially inept, not mention of NZRU being financially inept was made as this issue extends much further than the NZRU. There was no discussion on NZRU inner workings, just discussion on the impact of no logos on jerseys and how bigger unions with the NZRU as an example would have to do some fat cutting. I believe I brought up the well documented financial difficulties the Pacific Islands face and how the NZRU may have to respond by cutting games that draw in a low amount of funds ie. playing tier 2 nations. If anything the discussion was not singling NZRU out but more of using the examples the articled provided.

You overreacted without actually checking what happened first. I haven't said anything about you getting your panties in a bunch about a few words, it sounds like your projecting outside issues into the situation here which is fair enough as I've done as well. In conjunction with that, I also see that roughly 80% of the posters in this thread had something along the lines of "NZRU sucks." While these people may be incapable of actual complex though, I assure you that our conversation did not enter into that realm but I can see why you would be defensive.

Now you wouldn't have made that snarky comment if we didn't have Canadian flags under our names and that's something I have an issue with. You singled us out and have told us that we don't know what were talking about and overreacted to some comments that you have taken out a context. I would expect more from a moderator on an international rugby forum. Just because Rugby isn't the first sport in Canada but doesn't mean you have the right to single us out when discussing an issue with an ad hominem attack. You may have not said we can't post in this thread but your comments imply otherwise.

You may deny it, but then how come myself and Little Guy both had the same reaction to what you said?
I think this is all a misunderstanding and that you need to take a step back, maybe look at what was previously said because it was not meant in any sort of condescending manner to the NZRU or it's fans. Little Guy was only derogatory when he felt attacked.

 

[Canucks]

Island Venues small?


Apia Park, Apia, Samoa. Capacity 15,000

TFL National Stadium, Suva, Fiji. Capacity 30,000

Teufaiva Sport Stadium, Nuku'alofa, Tonga. Capacity 11,000 (What other country in the world will you find a stadium with enough capacity to take over 10% of the population of the entire country??!!!)

Ahahaha good point.

I was referring to the difficulties that the countries face in terms of advertising revenue and how small of a population live there.
There really needs to be special considerations set up for all areas of the world. What will work in NZ and England won't work for say Georgia or smaller unions. As well, what works with Canada and the States (advertising) won't work for the Islanders?
The IRB really needs to sit down with all the unions and maybe set up certain types of funding for certain areas? Or just allow the logos on the jerseys.

 

[Isurus]

I have a question.

Why the hell shouldn't the NZRFU try to get fair financial arrangements with the IRB?

I've got an even better question.

Why the hell should New Zealand not have by far and away the most favourable financial arrangements of any union?

The All Blacks are one of the most well known, most highly regarded, and most valuable sporting brands on this planet. Anyone disagree? New Zealand is far and away the leader in developing the game of rugby, in making the game more attractive to paying customers. New Zealand develops and exports more rugby talent than almost all other countries combined (I don't know if that is true but I am making a point and it sounds true). And it just blows my mind that New Zealand can produce a player such as Carl Hayman (I could have picked one of dozens) who goes off to Europe to earn massive £££s and the NZRFU gets exactly zero compensation. The All Blacks are Manchester United + Barcelona + Brazil combined when it comes to rugby excellence and the NZRFU should be the wealthiest union on the planet.

No?

**** fairness. We should have the biggest slice of the cake and the IRB should get on its knees and beg us to play their silly tournaments (that we created ffs!).





There, spleen vented.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Rugby was invented in England - I personally believe that every single rugby game played by a team that ISN'T England or an English club side should result in royalties to be paid to the RFU.

£50,000 for international
£20,000 for pro-club
£10,000 for semi-pro club
£5,000 for amateur
£2000 for schools/age-grade
All are per-side, so England vs Argentina = £50,000
Munster vs Ospreys = £40,000

That should do

 

[JW.]

Rugby was invented in England - I personally believe that every single rugby game played by a team that ISN'T England or an English club side should result in royalties to be paid to the English people.

£50,000 for international
£20,000 for pro-club
£10,000 for semi-pro club
£5,000 for amateur
£2000 for schools/age-grade
All are per-side, so England vs Argentina = £50,000
Munster vs Ospreys = £40,000

That should do

Great idea! Just fixed one thing there.

 

[Canucks]

I have a question.

Why the hell shouldn't the NZRFU try to get fair financial arrangements with the IRB?

I've got an even better question.

Why the hell should New Zealand not have by far and away the most favourable financial arrangements of any union?

The All Blacks are one of the most well known, most highly regarded, and most valuable sporting brands on this planet. Anyone disagree? New Zealand is far and away the leader in developing the game of rugby, in making the game more attractive to paying customers. New Zealand develops and exports more rugby talent than almost all other countries combined (I don't know if that is true but I am making a point and it sounds true). And it just blows my mind that New Zealand can produce a player such as Carl Hayman (I could have picked one of dozens) who goes off to Europe to earn massive £££s and the NZRFU gets exactly zero compensation. The All Blacks are Manchester United + Barcelona + Brazil combined when it comes to rugby excellence and the NZRFU should be the wealthiest union on the planet.

No?

**** fairness. We should have the biggest slice of the cake and the IRB should get on its knees and beg us to play their silly tournaments (that we created ffs!).





There, spleen vented.

I agree that the top teams should get a more financially beneficial relationship as their brands are what drive rugby. Kiwis do produce a ton of players however so does SA, AUS and ENG. I do not believe that any compensation should be paid to a country because a player is born there and grew up playing there. If Carl Hayman can make his money elsewhere then good for him. NZRU was not giving him an attractive enough offer therefore he went elsewhere. NZRU does not deserve any compensation and to implement such compensation would kill the growth of the sport which isn't good for NZ. Unfortunately, that's how professional sports work where it's a risk vs reward in developing players.
I think the team NZ is closest to is Brazil because their is a ton of similarities.

Cheeky reply olyy

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The All Blacks are Manchester United + Barcelona combined when it comes to rugby excellence

You mean they buy in a load of talented players?