Statement on Behalf of the Four Welsh Regions from RRW

[Feicarsinn]

http://www.scarlets.co.uk/news/6875.php

Sadly, the Regions regret to confirm that despite an indescribably tortuous process of endless telephone calls and meetings since January 6th​, the control, commercial and financial conditions that are being demanded of them under drafts of the proposed new Service Agreement would be completely unacceptable for any responsible independent business to enter into and expose itself to.
The Regions are most grateful for the time and consideration of Wales' National Head Coach, who has worked hard to reach a constructive and positive balance on the core Rugby elements of the agreement.

The public statements of the WRU Chairman referring to the need for urgency are welcomed, together with the positive position of individual WRU Board members following the Regions' presentation to the Board during May 2014.

Unfortunately, these comments in the public domain do not reflect the actual process that the Regions continue to experience, with every apparent step forward eventually being replaced by two steps back.

The Regions have consistently made every possible effort to reach a positive and progressive agreement that truly works in the interests of both parties, to ensure a sustainable and competitive professional game in Wales at both regional and international level. They remain totally committed to the hope of reaching that solution.

However, after many months of working hard to try to progress a new agreement, it is with heavy hearts that the Boards of all four Regions must now urgently consider the stark practical consequences of operating within a business model that does not include any form of agreement with the WRU outside IRB regulations and no WRU support or involvement in the development of Professional Regional Rugby.

You know, whatever else has gone on in negotiations, this is a pretty classless statement. The regions look like they're actively trying to absolve themselves of all blame and throw it all on the WRU. In reality, negotiations breaking down are never the fault of one party exclusively. If this was the attitude they went into talks with then it's no surprise we're at this juncture.

Where does this leave domestic rugby in Wales?

 

[Peat]

In a gigantic hole. With the possible exception of the French, I cannot think of any professional league in rugby that isn't built at least in part on good relations with their Union. The idea that the Regions alone are going to create and fund a model for running rugby that's going to compete with the Irish and English is worthy of the most elegantly arched eyebrow. Nothing is certain but that does not seem to be a goer.

As for who's to blame - it does take two to tango, but the WRU have been consistently making heavy demands. If they haven't budged much, I'm not surprised it's broken down. It does seem that the WRU are ok with the idea of breaking the Regions to gain control. Personally, if I ran one of the Regions, I'd simply walk into those meetings with my sale price for the Region and ask for it from the WRU.

 

[TheVietGwent]

In the same mess that Welsh pro rugby has been in for at least a decade.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/28205291

 

[TheVietGwent]

In a gigantic hole. With the possible exception of the French, I cannot think of any professional league in rugby that isn't built at least in part on good relations with their Union. The idea that the Regions alone are going to create and fund a model for running rugby that's going to compete with the Irish and English is worthy of the most elegantly arched eyebrow. Nothing is certain but that does not seem to be a goer.

As for who's to blame - it does take two to tango, but the WRU have been consistently making heavy demands. If they haven't budged much, I'm not surprised it's broken down. It does seem that the WRU are ok with the idea of breaking the Regions to gain control. Personally, if I ran one of the Regions, I'd simply walk into those meetings with my sale price for the Region and ask for it from the WRU.

The fact that the businesses are not worth anything, whilst the owners have pumped in £30M, is the root of the problem.

Roger Lewis said to them in November 2012 that the WRU would take the keys, but not reimburse the reckless historic debts.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/club-rugby/roger-lewis-french-clubs-are-endangering-the-european-game-8277961.html

 

[Amiga500]

WRU, please get your house in order. It has been significantly affecting the game beyond Wales for some time.

If you have to fold the regions, then grow a set of f__king balls and fold them.


No doubt sponsors and TV companies are getting sick of it - I can assure you most with an interest in the game in Ireland are throughly sick of it; I would expect it is the same in Scotland and Italy. It can only continue for so long before the Pro12 really starts to suffer as a result of Welsh ineptitude.... and with it the national sides, then the 6N.


[While this post is harsh, it is unfortunately reflective of the fact these issues are continually coming up - can anyone name a year they weren't at each others throats?]

 

[ratsapprentice]

Goodbye, Regions.

:violin:

 

[lynam1104]

WRU, please get your house in order. It has been significantly affecting the game beyond Wales for some time.

If you have to fold the regions, then grow a set of f__king balls and fold them.


No doubt sponsors and TV companies are getting sick of it - I can assure you most with an interest in the game in Ireland are throughly sick of it; I would expect it is the same in Scotland and Italy. It can only continue for so long before the Pro12 really starts to suffer as a result of Welsh ineptitude.... and with it the national sides, then the 6N.


[While this post is harsh, it is unfortunately reflective of the fact these issues are continually coming up - can anyone name a year they weren't at each others throats?]

I think the Pro12 is already suffering because of the welsh ineptitude, think about all the talented welsh players lost from the league and not always just for the money North even recently said that the main reason he wouldn't want to return is how big of a mess it all is. The fact that because of these issues there are only really 4-6 competitive teams in the league (Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Glasgow then arguably Treviso and the Ospreys), its diabolical and frankly I don't think the rest of the pro12 bodies should be putting up with. IMO the other nations need to step in and tell them to sort it out or else.

 

[TheVietGwent]

WRU, please get your house in order. It has been significantly affecting the game beyond Wales for some time.

If you have to fold the regions, then grow a set of f__king balls and fold them.


No doubt sponsors and TV companies are getting sick of it - I can assure you most with an interest in the game in Ireland are throughly sick of it; I would expect it is the same in Scotland and Italy. It can only continue for so long before the Pro12 really starts to suffer as a result of Welsh ineptitude.... and with it the national sides, then the 6N.


[While this post is harsh, it is unfortunately reflective of the fact these issues are continually coming up - can anyone name a year they weren't at each others throats?]

Killing off the pro-Aviva regions, or "super" clubs to be more accurate, is easier said than done.

 

[Draggs]

Goodbye, Regions.

:violin:

Goodbye WRU. As of right now, they face playing South Africa with English/French league players with cooperative contracts.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Goodbye WRU. As of right now, they face playing South Africa with English/French league players with cooperative contracts.

So.....George North.
and even that's subject to Saints being willing to break the rules for a 2nd year running, and incurring the (presumably/hopefully) increased punishment.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Goodbye WRU. As of right now, they face playing South Africa with English/French league players with cooperative contracts.

As of right now - the regions face playing each other... and only each other.

 

[Draggs]

As of right now - the regions face playing each other... and only each other.

No they don't, they are signed on with the RCC.
@Olyy, I believe the fine covers the entire contract:
http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/209817.html

 

[ratsapprentice]

And they will be able to play if they aren't aligned with their Union/IRB, how exactly?

 

[Draggs]

And they will be able to play if they aren't aligned with their Union/IRB, how exactly?

They are signatories of the tournament. Now which levels of RCC I am not sure.

 

[munstermuffin]

No they don't, they are signed on with the RCC.
@Olyy, I believe the fine covers the entire contract:
http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2013-14/rugby/story/209817.html

Technically though the more they've only 1 team in RCC the less the make financially. They go broke and new teams owned by RFU take over that's what'll happen

 

[ratsapprentice]

They are signatories of the tournament. Now which levels of RCC I am not sure.

It's an IRB tournament though - if they aren't represented by a Union I fail to see how they are able to take part on any level.

 

[Peat]

Problem is, or 'else what?'

The Pro 12 isn't really a goer without the Welsh. Oh, you could manage something, but there's a way to go before that's the best option. It significantly lessens the room for negotiation.

edit: That said, I agree with everyone else who expresses exasperation and a wish for the Welsh to get their house in order.

VietGwent - That is an issue; both in the lack of value, and the WRU's unwillingness to go some way to finding an acceptable compromise.

 

[munstermuffin]

Problem is, or 'else what?'

The Pro 12 isn't really a goer without the Welsh. Oh, you could manage something, but there's a way to go before that's the best option. It significantly lessens the room for negotiation.

edit: That said, I agree with everyone else who expresses exasperation and a wish for the Welsh to get their house in order.

VietGwent - That is an issue; both in the lack of value, and the WRU's unwillingness to go some way to finding an acceptable compromise.

This is where I think you may be wrong. The signs are that they've got the complete package now. Guinness are paying nicely Sky are the best at promoting and it's been ran as efficient as ever. I think money will be sent to new welsh franchises and let's remember part of new RCC agreement is English won't accept Welsh. So if Welsh come out they'll have nowhere to go and without funding from WRU and any league or tv revenues they'll be gone and all Welsh guys will sign for replacement regions probably owned by WRU.
Regions haven't got much choice

 

[Thingimubob]

Leaves Sam Warburton in an interesting position too. Regions probably won't accept him if they don't have a deal with the WRU, they can't loan him out to a Prem club as they don't allow centrally contracted players and I'm assuming this will extend to Bristol and the other top Championship clubs. I'm sure a French club would love his services, but again might not be so keen on a centrally contracted player (might even have rules against it too). That leaves the Irish, Scottish and Italians as the only clubs competing in the top level for him to maybe go to, but again severely doubt they'd go for him at all, especially with the WRU's role in this whole mess.
Would be ridiculous if the Welsh and most recent Lions Captain is forced down to play for the likes of Cardiff RFC or Glamorgan Wanderers in the Principality Premiership... Not even sure they'd have him considering their roles as regional feeder clubs...

 

[ratsapprentice]

Not sue the Championship have any rules about centrally contracted players - I can't see why they'd have done so considering it's an RFU run tournament.