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Stander decision rocks Bulls, SA

Gena_ZA

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South African rugby was rocked on Wednesday by the news that one of its brightest prospects â€" Bulls flanker CJ Stander â€" had turned down an offer to stay in South Africa and chose to take up a contract with Irish superclub Munster.
While local players moving overseas is nothing new, Stander’s decision came out of the blue for many and could well see him turn out for Ireland in three years' time.
The loose forward was identified by Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer as part of a group of players who have been training along with the Bok squad â€" in essence to gain experience and players who Meyer believes will become Boks within the next year or so. That group also includes the likes of Stormers Frans Malherbe and Siya Kolisi.
Stander has shown that despite his young age â€" he still is only 21 â€" he is one of the brightest prospects for the future, having captained SA Schools for two years in a row and also the SA under-20 side. This season he has commanded a regular place in the Bulls' loose-trio and has been one of their standout performers in the Vodacom Super Rugby competition.
However, it is understood that the offer from Munster was financially appealing, so much so that Stander decided his future was in Ireland for the next few years.
Munster have looked to recruit from overseas to fill player voids and have also received financial backing from the Irish Rugby Union for their venture, hinting that whoever is recruited will be lured into the Emerald Green in the next few years.
This may be a premature statement, but there are also warning signs if young talented players like Stander choose to go overseas rather than vie for a Springbok starting spot.
However, it may be that the Bulls' preference for their own loose trio of Pierre Spies, Dewald Potgieter and Deon Stegmann, coupled with the arrival of Jacques Potgieter and the up-and-coming former SA under-20 captain Arno Botha, may have something to do with the decision.
The Bulls also have current SA under-20 captain Wian Liebenberg and IRB Junior World Cup Player of the Year nominee Shaun Adendorff.
DIFFICULT TO COMPREHEND
Still, the move is a difficult one to comprehend giving Stander’s rising star in the game, and the Bulls insinuated that it was more about the offer he received, something that was denied by his agent.
Stander will remain part of the Vodacom Bulls' 2012 Vodacom Super Rugby campaign and will be available to play for the Vodacom Blue Bulls in the Absa Currie Cup competition. His contract with the BBC runs out on October 31st, whereafter he will move to Ireland.
The Chief Executive Officer of the Blue Bulls Company, Barend van Graan, said that they were unable to match the current offer on the table from the Irish club.
“We identified CJ at schoolboy level already and he was part of our future planning at the Bulls. However we couldn’t match the Munster offer â€" such is the reality of professional sport.â€
Vodacom Bulls coach, Frans Ludeke, wished Stander well in his decision;
“Quality players like CJ, who have also shown tremendous leadership abilities, don’t come around very often and so it was not a surprise to hear about his overseas offer. We would have loved to have had him with us well into the future, but it makes financial sense for CJ to accept the Munster offer.
"I have no doubt that CJ will continue to give everything he has throughout the remainder of our Vodacom Super Rugby campaign as well as our Absa Currie Cup season.â€
But Stander’s agent Gerrie Swart told SuperSport.com that financial considerations were not the primary factor in his decision.
“CJ's decision was made after a process over a period of months which included talks with the Bulls, Munster and personal one-on-one discussions with Frans Ludeke and Heyneke Meyer,†Swart told SuperSport.com.
“His decision is well informed and although financial considerations were taken into account it was by no means the primary or decisive factor which ultimately spurred the move. It is for this reason that it was never expected or requested of the Bulls to match the Munster offer."
Either way it seems Ireland have gained and South Africa has lost a fine player, one who could well have challenged for a leadership role at the 2015 World Cup. Only time will tell if he returns to South Africa or stays and is lured into an Irish jersey.
Stander has captained the Vodacom Blue Bulls at under-19 and under-21 level as well as South Africa at under-20 level. He made his Vodacom Super Rugby debut in 2012 and has played in all 13 Vodacom Super Rugby matches for the Vodacom Bulls this year.
 
I don't care whether it is the money or the fact that there is too much decent loosies at the Bulls or what frikkin ever.
He is in the extended Bok squad, training with the guys, within a month he would have made it in the new 4 Nations competition. There is already talk of a possible Bok captain in the future
****, this is one of my favorite players

Now he decides to go play in Ireland. So I ask - what is the difference between CJ Stander and Arno Botha - both young, brilliant, excellent leaders. Both playing for the same spot at the bulls and possibly the Boks. But the one with the inside lane is leaving our shores.
Sorry but it hurts and I have lost my respect for him. If he decides to come back later I will support him again. If he decides to wear the Green and play for them well.. Let's see if he will EVER win a world cup
 
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Ag Gena, that's the way the cookie crumbles... let's see what happens, maybe it's the same glorified rumour as that Pollard-conspiracy story which was in the news the day before.

If he wants to go, then let him go, he's a professional and they get paid to do what they do. If he likes Ireland more than SA (yeah right) then so be it.

Don't let anger ruin your day, we got this covered! HM can still call him up to play for the Boks, while he's playing there... Maybe he just wants to go and do the same thing as Frans Steyn did... and look, he came back!
 
The residency rule has to be changed in my opinion. Extend it to 5 years and / or limit the players playing for a country under the residency rule to 1 or 2. In theory, a rich country like Qatar could become the best rugby country in the world simply by buying their players from New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Argentina, Ireland etc. I know it's very unlikely but in theory it could happen.
 
As an outsider, I too am baffled by Stander's decision. He has impressed me whenever I've seen him play for the Bulls this year - to me he has been the pick of their loose-forwards (impressive when you consider those loose-forwards include Spies and J Potgieter). He looked every bit a future Springbok to me (and possibly even a future Bok captain), so I can't understand this decision at all...
 
Ag Gena, that's the way the cookie crumbles... let's see what happens, maybe it's the same glorified rumour as that Pollard-conspiracy story which was in the news the day before.

If he wants to go, then let him go, he's a professional and they get paid to do what they do. If he likes Ireland more than SA (yeah right) then so be it.

Don't let anger ruin your day, we got this covered! HM can still call him up to play for the Boks, while he's playing there... Maybe he just wants to go and do the same thing as Frans Steyn did... and look, he came back!


yeah yeah, you are right but RIGHT NOW it hurts me, especially in our new era with new coach and the like
But there will be other young and good guys coming through and I will just think of him in the following way:

"Now you're just a rugby player that I used to know"
 
yeah yeah, you are right but RIGHT NOW it hurts me, especially in our new era with new coach and the like
But there will be other young and good guys coming through and I will just think of him in the following way:

"Now you're just a rugby player that I used to know"

It hurts yes! Even more so for me as a Bulls supporter.

But let's look at this in the bigger picture:

the Bulls have Pierre Spies, Jacques Potgieter, Dewald Potgieter, Deon Stegman (all Boks), Arno Botha and now Shaun Adendorff... If he loses form (which usually happens the 2nd year of Professional rugby, in his case, next year) the Bulls got the cover they need.

Assumption is the mother of all F***-ups! don't assume anything right now, until we know more...
 
I'd much rather have a player who would bleed and take a pay cut to play for my team rather than one who might be 'better' and have the pedigree but isn't too concerned which way the wind blows.

Anthow, though it's sad to lose such a prospect we have it covered in the loose forward department. If it were Johan Goosen that went abroad I might consider drastic measures though.
 
This was doing the rounds on the Munsterfans the other day, I was wondering whether it was just here say or if there was any substance behind it. From a Munster perspective it's the perfect signing. They've got a whole host of young back rows coming through the system who could learn from playing from a top class operator. They've lost 3 internationals in the past season so it's nice to see them being able to plug that gap. Their best NIQ signing in a long, long time,

Putting my Irish cap on I'd be fairly unhappy to see him play for the national team if it ever comes to that. I dislike the project player system and in positions like the back row where we have lots of our own guys it's particularly redundant. I can completely understand South African frustration on this one.
 
It hurts yes! Even more so for me as a Bulls supporter.

But let's look at this in the bigger picture:

the Bulls have Pierre Spies, Jacques Potgieter, Dewald Potgieter, Deon Stegman (all Boks), Arno Botha and now Shaun Adendorff... If he loses form (which usually happens the 2nd year of Professional rugby, in his case, next year) the Bulls got the cover they need.


Assumption is the mother of all F***-ups! don't assume anything right now, until we know more...

I am not wearing the provincial cap here,this is bigger than any single province, couldn't care less of how the Bulls union feel about it
I felt exactly the same when Schalk Brits left WP - but his reasons was valid as he was not rated by the National sircus at the time
 
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Well, today it's CJ, Olivier and Kankowski. Tomorrow??? How is it possible for a team to build continuity, if they have to start with new players every season?
 
Well, today it's CJ, Olivier and Kankowski. Tomorrow??? How is it possible for a team to build continuity, if they have to start with new players every season?

Exactly the same as the previous 20+- years of professional rugby...
 
If one can trust the Volksbald newspaper then Wynand Olivier and Ryan Kankowski are on route to Japan for a 2 year and a 6 months contract.
No tears here from the Springboks point of view
 
From a Munster perspective, when I first heard he was signing for Munster I was thrilled. I've been really impressed with him in this Super Rugby competition and think he'll be a brilliant sining for the province but I don't think any South African fans should worry about him playing for Ireland.

The project-player system is stupid and paints a picture that Ireland can't produce it's own players. Ferris, Heaslip, O'Brien, Ruddock, Donnacha Ryan, Dom Ryan, Henry, Muldoon, etc. Ireland have enough good back-row forwards that Kidney, or any future Ireland coaches, will not need to pick Stander. The assumption that he's being brought over as a project-player is just a rumour as if the IRFU wanted a project-player it wouldn't be a back row forward. It'd be a front-rower. Or maybe a centre.

It's purely a Munster signing in my opinion and has nothing to do with the national team. Meyer can still pick him while he's in Ireland if he wants.

To be blatantly honest, I don't think any South African would choose Ireland over the 'Boks. I'd only worry about it if I was a Bulls fan.
 
I agree with Scan, but I do think that the fact of being uncapped played a role. Otherwise, they would've pushed for Kankowski or another more experienced player.
Probably they'll avoid capping him, but it's still a "just in case" option.
 
I agree with Scan, but I do think that the fact of being uncapped played a role. Otherwise, they would've pushed for Kankowski or another more experienced player.
Probably they'll avoid capping him, but it's still a "just in case" option.

No, Stander being uncapped had nothing to do with it. Munster are after loosing David Wallace, Alan Quinlan and Denis Leamy (are old first choice back row) in the last two seasons and, apart from 29 year old Niall Ronan and 31 year old James Coughlan, all are back rowers are in their early 20s. We're in transition and building for the future. Munster took one look at the Stander and said ''he'll be a world class player'' and tryed to nab him before everyone was after him. Great business (for once) by Munster.
 
Something nobody's pointed out here is that he's quite possibly using this as a tool to go further with the Boks and has no intention of being a project player - edit, or at least, he has no intention of not being a Bok yet. He'll be as aware as anyone (well, except nobody's mentioned it here :p) that Ruan Pienaar, Johann Muller and BJ Botha have all had Springbok call-ups while playing in Ireland. It hasn't hurt their Springbok careers at all. At Munster he will be the cock of the walk and playing first team rugby week in, week out - that's not something he could have done at the Bulls. The Bok coaches clearly have been willing to look hard at HEC performance. It's a clear possibility, he'd have had a chance to talk to somebody doing it at the Bok training camp no less.

So I wouldn't be at all surprised if Stander's thinking "I'll get paid more, I'll be played more, I'll still have a shot at the Boks, and if nothing's happened by the end of three years and the coaches aren't giving me promising signs, I might be able to join up with Ireland". That's a pretty big win-win scenario.

Cracking signing by Munster though, and if he's genuinely looking at being a project player, then he's the sort of calibre of player that should be recruited - not Peter Borlase!
 
Partly correct but he is the first "real prospect" that leaves even before his first international cap, hence the outcry, the rest was Boks, then decided to resurrect tehir careers internationally and some succeeded, some failed whilst becoming millionaires
There must be something more to it as he had one on one talks talks to the Bulls and Bok coaches recently
We all believe what we are told by the media unfortunately


*EDIT*

A few years ago Ronnie Cook also left, now people ask Ronnie who - out of sight, out of mind after a while.
In my view he is digging his own international grave as equally good players will come from the ZA rugby factory
but maybe he wants to play for Ireland, who knows
 
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I'm not sure what he's lineage is in terms of how attached he is to Ireland.

My few is this: The Bulls have plenty of loose forwards, and he can't even guarantee he is selected first, if Munster offered him a pot of money to go play for them for a few years I don't think there is anything wrong with that. He is still very young and could easily come back to SA (Look at J Kruger), nothing wrong with a kid wanting to make some extra cash, our professional sportsmen are paid criminally low salaries and he can develop as a player playing for Munster, which is one of the top teams in Europe. I have no doubt he'll make a starting position his own sooner rather than later.

That said, if he's being a whiny ***** about Marcel Coetzee and Jacques Potgieter getting selected ahead of him and he now plans to play for Ireland, then good riddance, and don't let the doorknob hit you on the way out.
 
I don't see where the problem lies with a 21/22 year old wanting to travel while he has no family ties while earning a shed load of money. How is this much different to, say, Juandre Kruger who developed over in England with Northampton, earned himself a good wage and went back to South Africa becoming an international.

Stander is a good signing for Munster. I hope he plays brilliantly and puts himself in the reckoning for Springbok selection. At the moment, he's down the pecking order and may only pick up token, one off caps for his country so moving is a calculated gamble on his part.. Munster have him in their "project player" spot because they've used up their NIQ allocation for next season (Doug Howlett, Casey Laulala, Wian du Preez, BJ Botha). He's only signed a 2 year deal by which stage he still won't be qualified to play for Ireland. I suspect he'll return to SA in 2014 and try put himself in contention for the 2015 World Cup squad.
 
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