Squads And Player Ratings

[TRF_Olyy]

People saying England has more depth this isn't the case.

Props-England
Hookers-Ireland (ecspecially once Struss qualifies.)
Second rows-about even
Backrows-Ireland
Halfbacks-about even
Centres-Ireland
Backthree-Maybe Ireland

This is based on the amount of international class players available in these positions.

Say what?
Ireland have one hooker, 1.5 if you count Flannery - England don't have a billion hookers, it's probably fairly even (apart from Best not being as good as Hartley or Thompson), not the landslide victory to Ireland
Probably even on the back row as well - Ireland have 5 backrowers at international standard, the rest wouldn't cut it - England have a fair few that could do the job

 

[Falvey]

Prime example of our fans blinkered views. You think he shouldn't go to the World Cup because he's not as dynamic as he used to be? You clearly don't watch the game with enough perception, he makes yards, gets through a lot of tackles and hits a lot of rucks, playing well week in week out

This is just the thing, he does not make yards, I have lost count of the number of times in the past couple of years that he's picked from the base or taken a crash ball and just been completely stopped in his tracks or smashed backwards. I believe he is constantly picked just because of who he is, he hasn't been outstanding for a while now.

When he first moved to lock he had a couple of decent games for the ospreys but is IMO not at the same level as bradley davies or alun wyn jones and would definitely not get a look in with the new back row that is developing.

All this aside however this is a feed for how players are rated within the game and not an excuse for us to have a disagreement over a player's current form or international selection.

I just look forward to playing the game and re-enacting Wales' famous 2011 world cup win.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Say what?
Ireland have one hooker, 1.5 if you count Flannery - England don't have a billion hookers, it's probably fairly even (apart from Best not being as good as Hartley or Thompson), not the landslide victory to Ireland
Probably even on the back row as well - Ireland have 5 backrowers at international standard, the rest wouldn't cut it - England have a fair few that could do the job

Yep. Plus there is no way at all that Ireland have more depth in the back three. And the halfbacks is so far from 'about even' its insane. Once we're onto centres, the undeniable fact is that noone outside of England knows anything about english centres because the only ones MJ likes are rubbish. Noone in England really think Tindall Bananaman and Hape are the best we've got. Once you look at the talent there with Baritt, Waldouck, Allen, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees etc, England seem to have way more there as well

 

[JW.]

ENGLAND AND OUR RANKINGS!

I would like to say that England should be better then no 5 in the world but being honest with ourselves we are not.
The top 3 I believe would crush the rest of the world 4/5 times. Then only Ireland are above us and although they had a bad 6N they showed up against our stongest team in years and made us look like bad club team. If Ireland can man handle us like that what do you think the ABs or Oz will do to us?

What worries me about alot of English rugby fans is that the majority of us have become insular with regards rugby. We dont watch the Celtic league so therefore we think the preimership is better and that Ireland have no dept. When infact the Celtic league have much the better teams then the Premiership.

Also from the list of 5 players for top european player of the year....England had none on that list, Ireland had 2 and the eventual winner.
Look at our club teams? We have won 1 heineken cup in 7 years and this year the only reason Northhamton made the final was because of the easy group and very easy draw they had the whole way to the final.

Im very worried about England at the world cup...we are filling ourselves with false hope built on insular ideas and no proof.

England have a very good side, we've just lost to the AB's and stuffed the Aussies. Then lost to SA, and made a positive start into the 6nations but halfway in to the 6nations, Flood and Youngs seemed to lose form. Injury's didnt help, but we got beaten by the Irish because we played badly, and missed certain key players. We have more strenght in depth than the Irish and I believe we are a stronger side.

Stuff our club teams, we have made the WC final the last 2 times. Winning once. Thats pretty damn good. I believe that we can win the WC if NZ fail. We can beat anyone except for the AB's.

As for the heineken cup, Northampton dominated that game until half time. When there strenght in depth was exposed as they havent got a very big squad and playing a long season showed. The Magners league haven't got the same amount of quality teams as the Premiership has. Yes, ive been watching.

 

[staph.glorious]

People saying England has more depth this isn't the case.

Props-England
Hookers-Ireland (ecspecially once Struss qualifies.)
Second rows-about even
Backrows-Ireland
Halfbacks-about even
Centres-Ireland
Backthree-Maybe Ireland

This is based on the amount of international class players available in these positions.

Wait - we do scrumhalves now?!

 

[big ginger 8]

Say what?
Ireland have one hooker, 1.5 if you count Flannery - England don't have a billion hookers, it's probably fairly even (apart from Best not being as good as Hartley or Thompson), not the landslide victory to Ireland
Probably even on the back row as well - Ireland have 5 backrowers at international standard, the rest wouldn't cut it - England have a fair few that could do the job

Ferris, Heaslip, Wallace, O'Brien, Leamy and Muldoon. McLaughlin and Ryan as well probably.

England have Wood, Croft, Waldrom, Haskell and maybe Moody. Easter isn't out of curiosity who else were you thinking of.

 

[big ginger 8]

Yep. Plus there is no way at all that Ireland have more depth in the back three. And the halfbacks is so far from 'about even' its insane. Once we're onto centres, the undeniable fact is that noone outside of England knows anything about english centres because the only ones MJ likes are rubbish. Noone in England really think Tindall Bananaman and Hape are the best we've got. Once you look at the talent there with Baritt, Waldouck, Allen, Tuilagi, Twelvetrees etc, England seem to have way more there as well

Who do England have on the bench for the back three and in the squad? We have 6 lions (Earls, Kearney, Fitzgerald, Bowe, Murphy and Horgan) and McFadden.

Not all your centres could play well internationally.

Also noone isn't a word it's no one.

We have more strenght in depth than the Irish and I believe we are a stronger side.

Is that gleemed from previous encounters?

Wait - we do scrumhalves now?!

Reddan, Stringer and Boss can internationally hold their own and Murrsy look like he might be.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Narraway, Robshaw, Johnson and Crane are all in/around the England squad and could easily make the step up

 

[big ginger 8]

Narraway, Robshaw, Johnson and Crane are all in/around the England squad and could easily make the step up

Presuming they all could that brings it to 7 same amount that I named.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Meh, Muldoon/McLaughlin/Ryan have never really impressed me,


Backthree wise in/around the England squad you've got:
Cueto, Ashton, Foden, Ojo, Benjamin, Sharples, Simpson-Daniel, Goode, Brown - All of whom I'd pick over the Irish back-three options (other than Bowe and Murphy)

 

[big ginger 8]

Meh, Muldoon/McLaughlin/Ryan have never really impressed me,


Backthree wise in/around the England squad you've got:
Cueto, Ashton, Foden, Ojo, Benjamin, Sharples, Simpson-Daniel, Goode, Brown - All of whom I'd pick over the Irish back-three options (other than Bowe and Murphy)

You'd seriously pick the likes of Ojo over Earls.

Also Narraway and Crane have never impressed me. Plus have you really seen much of Muldoon personnally I think if not for his injury problems he'd be ahead of Leamy.

 

[staph.glorious]

Ireland would boast the better match-day backrow, but the depth is even, give-or-take.

Irish scrumhalves just about make the cut for Tier-1 nations, but at least Youngs and Care would make the Irish XV and replacements.

 

[big ginger 8]

Ireland would boast the better match-day backrow, but the depth is even, give-or-take.

Irish scrumhalves just about make the cut for Tier-1 nations, but at least Youngs and Care would make the Irish XV and replacements.

I wasn't basing it on who's the best just the most international class players. It's not good for that Ireland actually are close as England has the largest player base in the world and despite recent growth Ireland's is miniscule in proportion.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

You'd seriously pick the likes of Ojo over Earls.

In a heartbeat

Plus have you really seen much of Muldoon personnally I think if not for his injury problems he'd be ahead of Leamy.

Yes, but then I don't really like Leamy either
Heaslip/Ferris/Wallace are the big dogs in Irish backrowing, SOB is on the up and is getting to their level, the rest pale in comparison

 

[big ginger 8]

In a heartbeat

Yes, but then I don't really like Leamy either
Heaslip/Ferris/Wallace are the big dogs in Irish backrowing, SOB is on the up and is getting to their level, the rest pale in comparison

That's your opinion I guess. I respect you for sticking to it but honestly can't understand it.

I'd have Fitzgerald over most of the back three players you named even in his current form.

And our squad backrowers over all but Wood and Croft.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I honestly can't understand having Fitzgerald over any of the England back-three players on current form - he's naff!

But again, that's your opinion so hey ho

 

[staph.glorious]

I wasn't basing it on who's the best just the most international class players. It's not good for that Ireland actually are close as England has the largest player base in the world and despite recent growth Ireland's is miniscule in proportion.

England have the better depth at halfback. Going by your original post, I'd also favour them at lock too.

Ireland has hit a purple patch in terms of backrowers. They can also field a very good back-three, and have shown good potential in this position over the last few seasons.

Of course England have more depth. It's the logical scenario, going by player numbers. But even an under-utilised thirty-man squad can win out in the end.

If I comment anymore in this thread, I reckon it'd be paramount to patriotic sh*t-talkin'.

 

[DorceOutSide]

toby flood is a botteler wilko should be 10 in my opinion.

 

[HowieLO6]

Deacon because in the 6N he seamed to forge a good partnership with Palmer and also he is a far more consistent performer than Lawes.
Haskell because he had a very good 6N and unfortunately Mad dog hasn't performed as well ever since he left Tigers
Easter is unfortunately at the moment the best we've got. He isn't great no but on the other hand Waldrom hasn't been proven in an England shirt of of yet. Also Waldrom if you ask most Tigers fans is a little overrated, yes he's a great ball carrier but he doesn't even compare to crane in the set piece.

Well, I certainly didnt mean to start an Eng/Ire debate, so i'll keep my comments to this!

Deacon is a reasonable set piece operator, but today's game needs so much more than that. Nil ability in the loose, whereas Lawes has demonstrated his versatility and ability for both cllub and country. Deacon is average, so for sake of ratings, say 70-75. Quality set piece man, nothing more.

Haskell is a showpony. Ive never seen a 6/7 stand out in the centres so much in my life. He's quick and strong. Big whoop. I want a tenacious 7, one with legit defensive abilities, not one who's not willing to put in the gritty work that Back and Hill used to do, the kind of work that goes unreported. Get him to sort out his hands and leadership and give him a chance at 8, maybe, but he managed to bodge those opportunities. And for those who think he's a nice guy, he isn't. Met him a fair few times and close friends with a couple of the guys he played with at from school. Utter sense of entitlement - see bits about him going nuts when his lady ditched him, or why he got suspended from Wellington - with a real me-first attitude. Give me a captain like Mad Dog anyday. A seven should be flying around the field, no loitering out in the centres. And lets not forget that Moody has been carrying all too many injuries this past year, showed some for of old this year with Bath.

And you're right about Easter, he is the "best" we've got right now, albeit due to not having a proper look at alternatives. Regardless of him being the top choice we have at the moment, there's no denying that he is below average and should be rated as such. Great leadership, just doesnt have the ability to follow up on the international stage. Should be a case of picking an 8th man depending on the game you wish to play.

 

[SavageLez]

I hope that they don't necessarily use the Current IRB Rankings coz although teams like Enlgand, France, Ireland and Wales are way behind in the rankings it does not mean they can't coz upsets on any given day.

I for one would like to play against mates using other countries besides NZ, OZ and SA without being handicapped. I also feel that England or Ireland for example could be a helluva lot stronger if the correct players and/or combinations were chosen. So I hope that the strength of the team can increase as you substitute stronger players. Will their be some sort of "merging" or "combination" feature that will make a team stronger depending on putting certain player combinations together?

Can anybody from the development team or with the knowledge anwser these questions, not sure if this is the correct place to post this if not please move it?