Southern Kings to play Super Rugby from 2013

[Seaton]

Is... Is he... Is he really trolling himself?

 

[smartcooky]

It's all got to do with Representation, and getting the rural communities in South Africa into the Sport. Due to our Racially Biased past, our Government has a real strong urge to get things right, but in the process, gets it most of the times wrong. Now most of you guys would have heard about the quota system we had some years back, in which all teams was forced to have a certain amount of non-white players in their team. Thankfully, our current sports minister has stopped that from being part of our rugby culture. And they have finally decided that the National Sports teams must pick players based on merit and not by the colour of their skin.

So they have finally realised what everyone else knew, that what they were doing was just what SARB used to do under generations of white governments. (note: for those don't know, SARB was the South African Rugby Board, the governing body of "white" rugby in South Africa. In 1992 it was merged with SARU -- South African Rugby Union -- the governing body of non-white rugby, to form SARFU. The "F" was dropped a few years later and it became SARU)

Now the idea of the government is to get systems in place to get rural communities and previously disadvantaged communities to get the kids from grassroots level upwards into a proper structure so that they can get into the game early on, and hopefully play Craven Week at age 13 & 17-18 level.

I shudder to think how good South Africa might be now had they started doing this shortly after the 1995 World Cup?

Now this is where the Southern Kings come into the picture. due to their Geographical location, with their home Stadium being in Port Elizabeth, that area of the country has a very big radius of poor communities and rural areas. The opinion of the Government is that there are hundreds of young guys with immense talent that just needs to be unearthed and show the world what they've got. This in essence means that the Southern Kings will be a team with mostly players from those areas. But they have problem in that the kids are reluctant to get into Rugby, as they play soccer from the age of 3 and most of those kids really don't like contact. So they are trying to win a very hard battle.

Whether this idea will work or not, we will have to wait and see, but at the moment it's a total shambles and a great source for Jokes...

By all means, the Kings can play in Super Rugby, but if the sizes of the other two conferences cannot be enlarged, then it is going to be at the expense of one of the other teams, and at tis time, I can only see that being either the Cheetahs or the Lions.

 

[SomeOke]

The real problem with the powers that be in South Africa is that they seem to think that implementing policy will somehow change how things are, as opposed to first building up the infrastructure required to implement such a policy.

I would LOVE to see Southern Kings in super rugby as a local from the Eastern Cape, but even I can see how unrealistic it is. In order to get the transformation they want in rugby they need to change things from the ground up first, one of the main reasons South African rugby is firstly so white and secondly much more successful than soccer (despite soccer supposedly being South Africa's number one sport in terms of popularity and player salaries) is because all the best schools in the country focus on rugby; the schools with the money for the best coaches, facilities, equipment etc are sadly the predominantly white affluent schools.

In order to get enough black players to actually form a competitive part of South African rugby you need to start in the schools, you can't just create a "culturally diverse" team and expect them to flourish when the infrastructure just isn't their from the lowest level.

Sad but true. If the government wants to see change they need to build it. Not write down a declaration and expect players to appear from thin air.

In fact if you think of any prominent South African black player 95% of them were identified early by affluent "white" schools, and offered scholarships. I hate the racial imbalance in this country as much as anyone but facts are facts and as I keep saying you can't change that by writing a few words down and signing it.



Cool forum btw.

 

[Darwin]

Is... Is he... Is he really trolling himself?

It appears so. I can't wait to see how responds to his latest post :lol:

 

[smartcooky]

If the government wants to see change they need to build it.

THIS!!!

 

[Pierce Brosnan Rugby]

It appears so. I can't wait to see how responds to his latest post :lol:

hehehe Groucho! Congratulations u should get a prize cause your jokes are really terrific...I hope groucho u read my other post and get what am saying...

The real problem with the powers that be in South Africa is that they seem to think that implementing policy will somehow change how things are, as opposed to first building up the infrastructure required to implement such a policy.

I would LOVE to see Southern Kings in super rugby as a local from the Eastern Cape, but even I can see how unrealistic it is. In order to get the transformation they want in rugby they need to change things from the ground up first, one of the main reasons South African rugby is firstly so white and secondly much more successful than soccer (despite soccer supposedly being South Africa's number one sport in terms of popularity and player salaries) is because all the best schools in the country focus on rugby; the schools with the money for the best coaches, facilities, equipment etc are sadly the predominantly white affluent schools.

In order to get enough black players to actually form a competitive part of South African rugby you need to start in the schools, you can't just create a "culturally diverse" team and expect them to flourish when the infrastructure just isn't their from the lowest level.

Sad but true. If the government wants to see change they need to build it. Not write down a declaration and expect players to appear from thin air.

In fact if you think of any prominent South African black player 95% of them were identified early by affluent "white" schools, and offered scholarships. I hate the racial imbalance in this country as much as anyone but facts are facts and as I keep saying you can't change that by writing a few words down and signing it.



Cool forum btw.

THIS IS SOOOOOO funny..... what u said is so strange "one of the main reasons South African rugby is firstly so white and secondly much more successful than soccer (despite soccer supposedly being South Africa's number one sport in terms of popularity and player salaries)" ..... WHAT??? ARE U CRAZY OR WHAT???? WITH ALL MY RESPECTS THATS SOOO DUMB... RUGBY IS CLEARLY MANY TIMES MORE POPULAR THAN SOCCER IN SA AND I DONT SAY THAT, THE ATTENDANCE NUMBERS OF BOTH LEAGES PROVE THAT FACT U CAN SEARCH ON WIKIPEDIA, I DONT SEE THE BEST SCHOOLS RELATION WITH THE ATTENDANCE OF RUGBY BEING FAR SUPERIOR.. FOR EXAMPLE THE BEST SCHOOLS HERE FOCUS ON RUGBY TOO AND THE AIRONI, BENNETON TREVISO ETC DOESNT BET EVEN CLOSE THE SOCCER TEAMS... HERE ON ITALY THE NATIONAL RUGBY TEAM LIKE I SAID BEFORE DRAW MORE CROWDS THAN THE SOCCER NATIONAL TEAM BUT THATS BECAUSE OTHER FACTORS....

 

[Darwin]

hehehe Groucho! Congratulations u should get a prize cause your jokes are really terrific...I hope groucho u read my other post and get what am saying...

Why thank you. Your praise means a lot to me.

Just a quick pointer: if you want to reply to more than one post either use the multi-quote function, or EDIT your existing posts. This means that you don't end up with 3-4 posts in a row, which makes the threads much less cluttered and easier to follow. In addition if you write in paragraphs and control your use of capital letters it would make your posts much easier to read. Cheers.

 

[nickdnz]

hehehe Groucho! Congratulations u should get a prize cause your jokes are really terrific...I hope groucho u read my other post and get what am saying...






THIS IS SOOOOOO funny..... what u said is so strange "one of the main reasons South African rugby is firstly so white and secondly much more successful than soccer (despite soccer supposedly being South Africa's number one sport in terms of popularity and player salaries)" ..... WHAT??? ARE U CRAZY OR WHAT???? WITH ALL MY RESPECTS THATS SOOO DUMB... RUGBY IS CLEARLY MANY TIMES MORE POPULAR THAN SOCCER IN SA AND I DONT SAY THAT, THE ATTENDANCE NUMBERS OF BOTH LEAGES PROVE THAT FACT U CAN SEARCH ON WIKIPEDIA, I DONT SEE THE BEST SCHOOLS RELATION WITH THE ATTENDANCE OF RUGBY BEING FAR SUPERIOR.. FOR EXAMPLE THE BEST SCHOOLS HERE FOCUS ON RUGBY TOO AND THE AIRONI, BENNETON TREVISO ETC DOESNT BET EVEN CLOSE THE SOCCER TEAMS... HERE ON ITALY THE NATIONAL RUGBY TEAM LIKE I SAID BEFORE DRAW MORE CROWDS THAN THE SOCCER NATIONAL TEAM BUT THATS BECAUSE OTHER FACTORS....

Liek ZOFG!!!1!!

j00 r totz rite G. loLOLOllol11!

 

[smartcooky]

Liek ZOFG!!!1!!

j00 r totz rite G. loLOLOllol11!

 

[Tricia McMillan]

And, Oh please!!!! Six Super Rugby teams in Australia? Give me a break!!!

Give Tasmania a team, if you ask me.

 

[User1245]

Tasmanian rugby team? Don't think it has any hope of that. Too little people, too little money in the local economy and very little rugby interest. Not even close.

That aside, Jurie Roux has yet to stuff up so I have faith in him that whatever happens is for the good of SA Rugby. I don't have the faintest clue how they gonna do it though...

The real problem with the powers that be in South Africa is that they seem to think that implementing policy will somehow change how things are, as opposed to first building up the infrastructure required to implement such a policy.

I would LOVE to see Southern Kings in super rugby as a local from the Eastern Cape, but even I can see how unrealistic it is. In order to get the transformation they want in rugby they need to change things from the ground up first, one of the main reasons South African rugby is firstly so white and secondly much more successful than soccer (despite soccer supposedly being South Africa's number one sport in terms of popularity and player salaries) is because all the best schools in the country focus on rugby; the schools with the money for the best coaches, facilities, equipment etc are sadly the predominantly white affluent schools.

In order to get enough black players to actually form a competitive part of South African rugby you need to start in the schools, you can't just create a "culturally diverse" team and expect them to flourish when the infrastructure just isn't their from the lowest level.

Sad but true. If the government wants to see change they need to build it. Not write down a declaration and expect players to appear from thin air.

In fact if you think of any prominent South African black player 95% of them were identified early by affluent "white" schools, and offered scholarships. I hate the racial imbalance in this country as much as anyone but facts are facts and as I keep saying you can't change that by writing a few words down and signing it.



Cool forum btw.

Spot on boet, it needs to be Down-Top process not a Top-Down process. The current policies are very short-term and based on instant gratification.

 

[TRF_heineken]

After the 2010 Fifa World Cup (soccer) Port Elizabeth was left with the White Elephant stadium, YES, i agree, but the stadium was there BEFORE the tournament and with even less seats available then, it was still some sort of White Elephant and not many games was played there.

the Eastern Cape (where Port Elizabeth is based) people mostly plays Cricket and soccer. Some of out best cricketers come from that region with still a lot of upper-class Private Schools as their main source of recruitment. With Cricket the same can be said in that Development is the main focus and one of the Heroes is Makhaya Ntini, a couple of years ago after he retired from cricket, he started a youth development program for the region in getting the kids to play cricket.

Now as much as I hate it to be called stupid or any other derogatory statement, I have to disagree with Mr. Pierce Brosnan Rugby. Seeing that I live in South Africa and have travelled my country from top to bottom, east to south, I would think I would know what is going on in my counrty! In fact, how about you jump on a plane, get a taxi and ask him to take you the Eastern Cape and just drive through the area... If you can count more Rugby Stadiums than Soccer pitches there, I will personally come to your house, shake your hand, bow down and say, I am Sorry for being an utter twat!

Soccer has a big following in SOuth Africa, if you managed to catch any soccer game in SA, you would see every game is packed! they even use Loftus in Pretoria throughout the season to play soccer games, one reason being there are 2 Premier league soccer teams based in Pretoria alone, and their stadiums are too small for the amount of followers who want to watch the game...

Jurie Roux has done a great job and he is trying the best he can with the power given to him, and there is a big focus in development, of which the Southern Kings are the biggest talking point. but in other provinces it's not growing as quickly as in the eastern cape. take Limpopo Province for instance, one of the biggest provinces in the country and we don't even have our own provincial senior team... but if you look at soccer, here are 1 premier league team and 4 first division teams in my town alone!

Soccer is much bigger in SA as what some of you may think!

 

[Pierce Brosnan Rugby]

After the 2010 Fifa World Cup (soccer) Port Elizabeth was left with the White Elephant stadium, YES, i agree, but the stadium was there BEFORE the tournament and with even less seats available then, it was still some sort of White Elephant and not many games was played there.

the Eastern Cape (where Port Elizabeth is based) people mostly plays Cricket and soccer. Some of out best cricketers come from that region with still a lot of upper-class Private Schools as their main source of recruitment. With Cricket the same can be said in that Development is the main focus and one of the Heroes is Makhaya Ntini, a couple of years ago after he retired from cricket, he started a youth development program for the region in getting the kids to play cricket.

Now as much as I hate it to be called stupid or any other derogatory statement, I have to disagree with Mr. Pierce Brosnan Rugby. Seeing that I live in South Africa and have travelled my country from top to bottom, east to south, I would think I would know what is going on in my counrty! In fact, how about you jump on a plane, get a taxi and ask him to take you the Eastern Cape and just drive through the area... If you can count more Rugby Stadiums than Soccer pitches there, I will personally come to your house, shake your hand, bow down and say, I am Sorry for being an utter twat!

Soccer has a big following in SOuth Africa, if you managed to catch any soccer game in SA, you would see every game is packed! they even use Loftus in Pretoria throughout the season to play soccer games, one reason being there are 2 Premier league soccer teams based in Pretoria alone, and their stadiums are too small for the amount of followers who want to watch the game...

Jurie Roux has done a great job and he is trying the best he can with the power given to him, and there is a big focus in development, of which the Southern Kings are the biggest talking point. but in other provinces it's not growing as quickly as in the eastern cape. take Limpopo Province for instance, one of the biggest provinces in the country and we don't even have our own provincial senior team... but if you look at soccer, here are 1 premier league team and 4 first division teams in my town alone!

Soccer is much bigger in SA as what some of you may think!

So if every game is packed like u said, why they get only 3,829 People Average per game in the SA Soccer Premier leage??? (check wikipedia) Thats what u call "always packed"???

And the ABSA Currie cup get at the same time 15,524 People Average per game,
so lets not forget that the 5 South africans Super Rugby teams They Average in their 52 Games like 27,000 Plus people per game...(WIKIPEDIA) THATS WHAT I CALL MY FRIEND "FULL PACKED"...
I been there by myself and I see with my own eyes that few people cares about soccer the numbers dont lie...

 

[TRF_heineken]

So if every game is packed like u said, why they get only 3,829 People Average per game in the SA Soccer Premier leage??? (check wikipedia) Thats what u call "always packed"???

And the ABSA Currie cup get at the same time 15,524 People Average per game,
so lets not forget that the 5 South africans Super Rugby teams They Average in their 52 Games like 27,000 Plus people per game...(WIKIPEDIA) THATS WHAT I CALL MY FRIEND "FULL PACKED"...
I been there by myself and I see with my own eyes that few people cares about soccer the numbers dont lie...

Ok MR. Wikipedick! You're missing so many other facts that needs also to be brought into consideration, but I think that will be beyond your comprehension... With the massive amount of sport being played during the year not every single game will be fully packed, people just don't have that type of money to throw around week in and week out! Soccer, Cricket and Rugby are the biggest attractions with regard to sport. for what some people still see as a 3rd world country we are doing what we can with all the political problems still in our country.

The fact that the stadiums are not packed week in and week out, is one of the main reasons why we focus so much on development! by getting communities involved in the sport, and attracting them to watch games and get a love of the game, will attract them to the stadiums to go and watch a game.

 

[Pierce Brosnan Rugby]

Please stop posting in all capitals, and also stop trying to insult other members.

Fine when they insult italians like me is ok for u, but u know what?, am no insulting anyone, like I said before I didnt know that the italian people is insulted like this here, but nevermind, ALOT OF PEOPLE IS NICE HERE, but some really are like crap, I will tell to my friends here that they should avoid this place... BY THE WAY I DIDNT MEAN TO HURT ANYONE, I JUST SAYING THE TRUE.........:lol::lol::lol:

OK so heineken u just said before "if you managed to catch any soccer game in SA, you would see every game is packed"......
and now u say "With the massive amount of sport being played during the year not every single game will be fully packed"

IS OK heineken, that just prove the rugby is number 1.... like I told u before i been there I got alot of friends there... I dont mean to fight u or insult u, am just putting the facts and numbers there, RUGBY IS ALWAYS THE NUMBER 1 TICKET EVENT EVERY YEAR IN SOUTH AFRICA, BUT TOOO MANY PEOPLE WANT U TO THINK OTHERWISE. dont let them lie to u............

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Jeesh this thread has gone off the rails.

Anyway, what baffles my mind is the following question; does the SARU really REEALY think they have a chance of bringing a 6th team in or is the coming farce of 'discussing it in a SANZAR meeting' their way of passing the buck so to speak and being able to say; "hey, we tried our best but those bloody Aussies and Kiwi's wouldn't let us so we have to cut an existing franchise- not our fault or lack of planning of any sort on our part". And we (SA public) are supposed to eat that up as sweet cake.

 

[Tomsey]

do the saru actually think having a promotion/relegation system will work in this scenario? lets assume (for arguments sake) the kings come in next year and the lions get "relegated". i assume the lions then cease to exist for 12 months and their players go back to playing currie cup. at the beginning of 2014, presumably, the lowest ranked team in the south african pool will then be relegated and the team that didn't play comes back in. so following our example the kings (likely the lowest ranked team considering how shite their squad is at the moment and the fact they will be in their first year of the competition) go back out and the lions come back in. the 2014 season progresses and the lions will likely struggle because they haven't been together as a squad for 12 months and some of their best players have left due to the lack of top class games. the season comes to an end and the lions come last and are relegated for the kings to come back in the following year.... repeat the process.

don't know about you, but i can't see this working.

Also pierce brosnan rugby, despite your sweet user name, you are a retard.
not because you are italian, but because you only talk about things you don't understand, you don't make any sense at all when you talk about them, you repeat your comments that don't make sense several times in every post, and you fill all your posts with stupid smiley faces and capitals in incorrect places.

 

[welshglory]

I posted this in another thread but anyways i wonder if SARU will threaten SANZAR like they did before and try to play in Europe. After all they are the main money maker so they hold most of the cards.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

do the saru actually think having a promotion/relegation system will work in this scenario? lets assume (for arguments sake) the kings come in next year and the lions get "relegated". i assume the lions then cease to exist for 12 months and their players go back to playing currie cup. at the beginning of 2014, presumably, the lowest ranked team in the south african pool will then be relegated and the team that didn't play comes back in. so following our example the kings (likely the lowest ranked team considering how shite their squad is at the moment and the fact they will be in their first year of the competition) go back out and the lions come back in. the 2014 season progresses and the lions will likely struggle because they haven't been together as a squad for 12 months and some of their best players have left due to the lack of top class games. the season comes to an end and the lions come last and are relegated for the kings to come back in the following year.... repeat the process.

don't know about you, but i can't see this working.

Also pierce brosnan rugby, despite your sweet user name, you are a retard.
not because you are italian, but because you only talk about things you don't understand, you don't make any sense at all when you talk about them, you repeat your comments that don't make sense several times in every post, and you fill all your posts with stupid smiley faces and capitals in incorrect places.

I can't see it working either, Tomsey. While promotion/relegation would be the fairest route it allready becomes a farce in that the Kings are assured of entrance and the 1st relegation would be forced which makes a mockery of the entire system from the get-go.

From there we end up with two possible scenario's if the relegated team doesn't get usurped somehow; the Lions retain their players (which is highly unlikely though they could possibly set up some sort of loan deals throughout the S15 season and retain their players for a promotion/relegation battle) and inevitably beat the Kings (who apparently will focus on development and thus won't bolster their team with signing settled professionals) to make for a mockery of the Kings' forced entry or the Lions lose their 'star' players and remain in obscurity as once you go down and don't have a sure income it will be hard to get the necessary personal together long enough to make a sucessful comeback. Even if they managed you can be sure our borderline communist government element would go off their rockers and further interfere in rugby. Only time will tell, I guess.

I posted this in another thread but anyways i wonder if SARU will threaten SANZAR like they did before and try to play in Europe. After all they are the main money maker so they hold most of the cards.

True they are the main money maker but they don't have the balls to make a move and I suspect the others know this. Anyway, while I think a move North if Europe would have us wouldn't be the worst thing that SARU has done in their tenure most would prefer to stick to what have worked for us (with some issues to address true) in the past and stay in SANZAR.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Did I miss someting?