South Africa vs British and Irish Lions - Test 2

[TRF_stormer2010]

Like previously mentioned how does one get fit in a week. I expect its more down to the forwards and to compensate for lack of fitness we'll have to go the 6:2 split with Elton Jantjies dropping so its only Herschel Jantjies and Willemse on the bench for the backs.

That and maybe Wiese in for Smith if only for more height? Smith was not as impactful at the breakdown as he might have been and that supposedly was the main reason for his inclusion. I would say rather drop Kolisi and move Smith to the side because Kolisi was even less visible but that isn't going to happen.

I expect the Lions will also improve but that said it was fine margins and it will probably be as fine on the weekend. Looking forward to it and its just great to finally have our boys in green out on the field again!

 

[General Melchett]

2013 - Poor Aussie side
2017 - A gift from SBW
2021 - COVID = Unfit and undercooked Boks

Q - Has Gatland been lucky or do you make your own luck?

 

[General Melchett]

Like previously mentioned how does one get fit in a week. I expect its more down to the forwards and to compensate for lack of fitness we'll have to go the 6:2 split with Elton Jantjies dropping so its only Herschel Jantjies and Willemse on the bench for the backs.

That and maybe Wiese in for Smith if only for more height? Smith was not as impactful at the breakdown as he might have been and that supposedly was the main reason for his inclusion. I would say rather drop Kolisi and move Smith to the side because Kolisi was even less visible but that isn't going to happen.

I expect the Lions will also improve but that said it was fine margins and it will probably be as fine on the weekend. Looking forward to it and its just great to finally have our boys in green out on the field again!

Do you think Kolisi was selected more for his on field leadership as opposed to being the form option for his position? Given he is recently recovering from COVID and the strength the Boks have in the back row I think dropping him might make sense. I thought Smith did ok actually.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

2013 - Poor Aussie side
2017 - A gift from SBW
2021 - COVID = Unfit and undercooked Boks

Q - Has Gatland been lucky or do you make your own luck?

Australia in 2013 - had a poor pair of props. Moore was pretty decent and their back 5 weren't that bad or their backs. But Also lacking Pocock, whom we saw the difference when he played in 2015. But that team beaten still got to the semis of RWC 2 years prior.

NZ - team weren't the side of 2013-2015, but still a world class side. SBW red card swung the second test but you could argue the final decision by Poite in the third swung it in Lions favour. Garces persuading him not to make same mistake as Joubert.

SA - well They haven't played in two years either and yes am sure the effects of Covid won't have helped, but so have certain Lions been affected. Expect the Boks to be much better in the second test after that workout.

Conclusion: Gats and the Lions can only beat what's in front of them. Of course it's decided on fine margins. Gats has gotten a lot of flak on here from rugby fans, but his record still speaks for itself.

Ireland fans hate him for his time there. England fans hate him because of his time at Wales. Lions' purists dislike his brand of rugby etc as not being in the spirit of the Lions, but that is harking back to the pre- professional era. The guy can't win, but that's the Lions experience for you. Can't please everyone.

If he can sneak a win in SA that would be 3 series unbeaten, which is not to be sniffed at. And is not just down to luck. Still long way to go in this test series though.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Do you think Kolisi was selected more for his on field leadership as opposed to being the form option for his position? Given he is recently recovering from COVID and the strength the Boks have in the back row I think dropping him might make sense. I thought Smith did ok actually.

I think the situation with Kolisi is pretty much the same the Lions have with AWJ- if his fit he plays. He is anything but the form option. Even the few Currie Cup games he looked tired. I hoped for more from Smith personally but TBF he showed up more than Kolisi.

The issues for our back row is beyond an injured Vermeulen (who looked in every bit of form as ever prior to injury) the options are either unfit or based overseas. Someone like Marcel Coetzee has also looked way off the pace in domestic competition earlier.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The issues for our back row is beyond an injured Vermeulen (who looked in every bit of form as ever prior to injury) the options are either unfit or based overseas. Someone like Marcel Coetzee has also looked way off the pace in domestic competition earlier.

You sent the du Preez twins home so you must be pretty stacked there...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

i dont think the boks have the fitness or the time to get fit.

That's the real shame of this series, although they'll be better for that hit out. And mad.

If ever the dice were loaded for a Lions win it was last Saturday. And yet they only won by 5 points with the Boks having a couple of tries ruled out (rightly, but on another day things might have gone their way) while we looked totally blunt in attack.

I supported a more adventurous selection for that first game but it didn't really pay off.

The pack have earned the right to go again. Maybe swap Owens / LCD and it's a toss up between Watson and Curry.

Behind, Price didn't really bring what was hoped. Will Biggar be fit? Would we be better with the extra solidity of Williams at FB? McVan Der Merwe is big, strong and unsubtle, maybe Adams would ask more questions and it's highly unlikely Kolbe will be so quiet again. And as for centre, there's no point having Daly there unless you're going to play a running game.

Gatland has some big calls to make.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think SA might surprise a few people next week re fitness reading these comments. I don't think it's a case that they lack physical fitness, moreso match fitness/focus. That can come back fairly quickly with players of this quality. I think they'll bounce back and win next week but expect the Lions to rotate quite heavily the week after and win with a fresher team.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Harris for Daly could also be figuring in Gatland's thinking. But then does he want Daly on the bench just in case for that last minute 40m penalty?

 

[TobesHodges]

Agree no changes needed apart from maybe Adams for DVDM and Daly for Harris/Aki, I think though he has to stick with Daly.. 50+ metre Penalties are just something you can't not put in the 23..

 

[ncurd]

GB Hockey Team are loosing to SA we know how important those wins were on Saturday

 

[mdaclarke]

The only change I would make to the Boks is changing Wiese for Smith.

 

[Jakedood]

I think the situation with Kolisi is pretty much the same the Lions have with AWJ- if his fit he plays. He is anything but the form option. Even the few Currie Cup games he looked tired. I hoped for more from Smith personally but TBF he showed up more than Kolisi.

The issues for our back row is beyond an injured Vermeulen (who looked in every bit of form as ever prior to injury) the options are either unfit or based overseas. Someone like Marcel Coetzee has also looked way off the pace in domestic competition earlier.

He was just back from a long injury period in fairness, but even so, I've seen that guy when he's passionate and fired up, and he's a whole different animal

 

[Jakedood]

Agree no changes needed apart from maybe Adams for DVDM and Daly for Harris/Aki, I think though he has to stick with Daly.. 50+ metre Penalties are just something you can't not put in the 23..

Does anyone think DvDM actually did well?
Not exposed defensively due to poor play from SA ball in hand (or barely any of it)
Competed well under the high ball (his first take under pressure was brilliant) and regularly got up and tapped balls back to Lions hands
Good breakdown work, and was a handful at least in a way Josh Adams isnt quite, though he is an outstanding finisher. In a more open game I'd maybe go Adams, but cant see that its required at all to switch the two. Im an outspoken critic of DvDM even being on the tour, but he played well

 

[General Melchett]

Does anyone think DvDM actually did well?
Not exposed defensively due to poor play from SA ball in hand (or barely any of it)
Competed well under the high ball (his first take under pressure was brilliant) and regularly got up and tapped balls back to Lions hands
Good breakdown work, and was a handful at least in a way Josh Adams isnt quite, though he is an outstanding finisher. In a more open game I'd maybe go Adams, but cant see that its required at all to switch the two. Im an outspoken critic of DvDM even being on the tour, but he played well

Yeah agreed. I'd say of the entire back three VDM deserves to keep his place the most. It's almost like having an extra forward at times with his carries, clear outs and he can even add his 105kg to mauls. He also comes inside and goes looking for the ball when the opportunity arises.

The only changes I would make would be

Sutherland > Wyn Jones (keep Mako on the bench)
Start Owens/George and have LCD on the bench.
Daly > Harris
Farrell > Russell/Smith
Liam Williams > Daly

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You sent the du Preez twins home so you must be pretty stacked there...

Its probably a good thing (for SA) that "you" refers to the SA setup and doesn't include me. I suppose Nienaber and co have greater faith in those still available than I do simple as that. For me, I can accept Kolisi might come back strong and he has in the past come back with aplomb but IMO that was Smith's best test to date and it still was not up to a standard I expect from Bok loose forwards.

I think SA might surprise a few people next week re fitness reading these comments. I don't think it's a case that they lack physical fitness, moreso match fitness/focus. That can come back fairly quickly with players of this quality. I think they'll bounce back and win next week but expect the Lions to rotate quite heavily the week after and win with a fresher team.

I hope that is the case. the first part, not the last part but I get your point.

The only change I would make to the Boks is changing Wiese for Smith.

Ditto. That and go with a 6:2 bench split favoring forwards. I might be tempted to bring in Fassi but who do I drop in the SA back 3. Mapimpi was not the problem but I would be loath to drop Kolbe. I'd probably either keep Kolbe at 14 and drop Le Roux in favor of Fassi or move Kolbe to 15 to accommodate Fassi at 14 who has the height to compete in the air in tighter space. The additional space Kolbe would have at 15 might also bring him more into the game.

He was just back from a long injury period in fairness, but even so, I've seen that guy when he's passionate and fired up, and he's a whole different animal

That is my point to some degree- his having been off form prior to the Lions arriving is one thing. His being out and then straight back in after testing positive is another. Though I suppose you can say that for half our team so its either starting players who just had Covid or calling off the tour I suppose. No good options actually.

 

[Which Tyler]

Liam Williams > Daly

Wait, what?

 

[General Melchett]

Wait, what?

Only way I could see to get cover at centre if Farrell drops out of the 23 to make way for Russell. Not that Daly has earned a place in the 23.

Tandy confirmed today that Russell is back in training while Biggar won't be able to train until Thursday. I can see Russell being involved on Saturday if he comes through training ok.

 

[Which Tyler]

Only way I could see to get cover at centre if Farrell drops out of the 23 to make way for Russell. Not that Daly has earned a place in the 23.

Tandy confirmed today that Russell is back in training while Biggar won't be able to train until Thursday. I can see Russell being involved on Saturday if he comes through training ok.

I'm still confused - you'd swap Williams in for Daly, (so, to play outside centre) in order to keep Daly in the 23?

I can only think I'm missing something trying to follow a conversation and who's talking to whom

 

[General Melchett]

I'm still confused - you'd swap Williams in for Daly, (so, to play outside centre) in order to keep Daly in the 23?

I can only think I'm missing something trying to follow a conversation and who's talking to whom

If it's a 5:3 bench split again then you have SH, FH and Centre/Back three. Russell in for Farrell means we are short of centre cover. Henshaw could move to 12 if he starts at 13. Daly covers 13 and the wing (with Watson covering 15).