Sonny Bill Williams to fight for New Zealand Heavyweight ***le

[nickdnz]

Wow, not a huge SBW fan but good to see him take care of Tillman without trouble. New Zealand Heavyweight Champion. Would like to see him go up against someone like Chauncy Welliver next. Would generate money for Welliver and could launch SBW's career on the odd chance he won.

Looking again at the TKO, it seemed a bit early, especially with 10 seconds left on the clock. Referee was also the person whom approved the fight >.>. Still SBW, clearly had Tillman against the ropes and not doing well of defending himself.

 

[Aedaphon]

Great first round by Sonny.

Would like to see him fight a more credible boxer though... Tillman looked pretty unprofessional.

 

[Darwin]

Great first round by Sonny.

Would like to see him fight a more credible boxer though... Tillman looked pretty unprofessional.

SBW's management would never put him up against someone that could fight back :lol:

Anyways... Tillman was overweight and a pretty poor boxer (what else would you expect from a boxer whose record is won 11, lost 8, drawn 2...?), but SBW did well to put him away with relative ease. SBW can now concentrate on rugby for the next few weeks before he decides to box again, switch back to league, take up pole dancing, or become a professional poker player (or whatever he plans to do next...).

 

[Sam Owen]

I cant believe Sonny Bill Williams is the NZ heavyweight champion.

 

[FlukeArtist]

SBW is a shameless, selfish, self-promoter.

NZ Boxing should hang their heads in shame that they even let him near a Championship fight when the guy has done NOTHING. So he beat Tillman, and what was the guy he last fought...? an over-weight beneficiary??... give me a break!!
What a farce that fight was.

I can't wait til SBW 4*@&% off back to league.

So sick of the guy and the party of money grubbing morons he keeps company with.

 

[lucky number 7]

Tillman looked shocking....I've recently started boxing and I would wager there are some of the bigger boys in there at 21 that would have put up a better fight.

 

[TNT88]

Does he have to fight the best NZ boxers around now that he has the ***le? This might get interesting.

 

[UilamOsa]

I cant believe Sonny Bill Williams is the NZ heavyweight champion.

Me too Uce. It's a bit embarassing if I'm honest with myself. Whilst I congratulate him on his effort (or the efforts of his production team) he's not someone I would confidently put forward as a NZ boxing ***le holder.

Tillman looked shocking....I've recently started boxing and I would wager there are some of the bigger boys in there at 21 that would have put up a better fight.

There are. A few them offered but were declined. A few in the amateur divisions actually tried to pursue the option of fighting him, but were also knocked back by SBW Productions (Khoder Nasser & Mundine Family).

Tillman was a rushed job, they had someone else handpicked but he had...umm...legal issues to worry about.

Does he have to fight the best NZ boxers around now that he has the ***le? This might get interesting.

We can only hope. If anything it probably means (given our location) he has more reason to cherry pick his opponents.

 

[nickdnz]

I get what everyone is saying. It doesn't make NZ boxing look very good. Tillman was a bit of a joke if we are being honest. Came in looking out of shape and showed no technical ability, especially after getting knocked with the left hook. As I said, he is only one of New Zealand's boxing champions and to see him go against David Tua or Chauncy Welliver, I'd pay to see that slaughter. Heck, I wouldn't even mind seeing Shane Cameron reclaiming his belt if he moved back up.

The thing that gets me is, New Zealand media go crazy with ***les like "Have to take SBW's boxing career seriously" and "Time to stop doubting him as a future prospect". No. He's 26 who now has five wins against custom picked, poor opponents. Those five wins have come over two years of boxing. He's not Anthony Mundine. He will not become a great boxer. Most great boxers have celebrated amature careers often competing in the Olympics (Foreman, Frazier, Ali, Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis, Joe Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko etc) in their teens and early twenties and then fight 10-15 professional fights in the next 2 or 3 years. Sonny Bill Williams is good for the profile of boxing in New Zealand, but people have to take him at face value.

 

[William18]

I get what everyone is saying. It doesn't make NZ boxing look very good. Tillman was a bit of a joke if we are being honest. Came in looking out of shape and showed no technical ability, especially after getting knocked with the left hook. As I said, he is only one of New Zealand's boxing champions and to see him go against David Tua or Chauncy Welliver, I'd pay to see that slaughter. Heck, I wouldn't even mind seeing Shane Cameron reclaiming his belt if he moved back up.

The thing that gets me is, New Zealand media go crazy with ***les like "Have to take SBW's boxing career seriously" and "Time to stop doubting him as a future prospect". No. He's 26 who now has five wins against custom picked, poor opponents. Those five wins have come over two years of boxing. He's not Anthony Mundine. He will not become a great boxer. Most great boxers have celebrated amature careers often competing in the Olympics (Foreman, Frazier, Ali, Jones Jr, Lennox Lewis, Joe Lewis, Wladimir Klitschko, Vitali Klitschko etc) in their teens and early twenties and then fight 10-15 professional fights in the next 2 or 3 years. Sonny Bill Williams is good for the profile of boxing in New Zealand, but people have to take him at face value.

Exactly. We didn't take someone like Tutaki seriously when/if he was NZ heavyweight champion so we shouldn't take SBW too seriously either. What annoys me the most is that actual boxers don't even get on TV in New Zealand and no one knows anything about them. It doesn't look like Sky is going to have Klitschko vs Chisora which is an actual fight between two quality boxers.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I admit I'm not a big boxing fan, however that fight was poor.
It looked like a school yard scrap where they blindly threw punches until the other guy stopped - just so happened that the fat bloke got knackered first so took a few more hits to the head and it was all over.

Would love to see SBW actually fight someone decent, to see how good he actually is. Seems like he's only getting wheeled out in front of guaranteed wins atm.

 

[UilamOsa]

Exactly. We didn't take someone like Tutaki seriously when/if he was NZ heavyweight champion so we shouldn't take SBW too seriously either. What annoys me the most is that actual boxers don't even get on TV in New Zealand and no one knows anything about them. It doesn't look like Sky is going to have Klitschko vs Chisora which is an actual fight between two quality boxers.

I'm really glad we've decided too not take into consideration SBW's new NZ ***le.

With that in mind...

 

[TRF_heineken]

I admit I'm not a big boxing fan, however that fight was poor.
It looked like a school yard scrap where they blindly threw punched until the other guy stopped - just so happened that the fat bloke got knackered first so took a few more hits to the head and it was all over.

Would love to see SBW actually fight someone decent, to see how good he actually is. Seems like he's only getting wheeled out in front of guaranteed wins atm.

I Agree, Even Wynand Olivier would have done a better job than Tillman, even if he can just slap...

 

[Dizzy]

I know what you guys are all saying, I really do understand but come on,....

Give the guy a break... Before the fight, people were saying, oh it's gonna be close, SBW is gonna get knocked out. Then he won, now its, the man was overweight, Tillman is a nobody, etc... And the same thing happened before and after his first fight against Gary Gurr..
No I don't think SBW is a top class boxer, that comes with experience. No, I don't think he was the most potential candidate to fight for the vacant ***le simply because he hasn't been around long enough, but then again, who else has?, It doesn't look like Tua wants the belt and Cameron dropped weight divisions after talking smack and then getting demolished by Tua. One major player in Boxing is entertainment and money, SBW draws the crowds and the media so he was the best bet for a non-existent NZ Boxing Association.
The man is a supreme-athlete and it's obvious he works hard to get where he is.
What does he have to do? Fight Vitali Klitschko himself? And even then, the excuse will be something like,... oh Vitali is 40 and passed his prime. Most people fight nobodies in the beginning of their careers, it's all part of the coming up process and let's face it, it's not like New Zealand has much A-Class boxers to begin with.
SBW lands his punches and he lands them well, he has an un-co style but he does land his punches, he looks very professional when he's in the ring.
So please, give the man a break, it seems like, no matter what he does, no one will take him seriously.
Again, I don't think hes a top boxer at all,... just tired of all the hate towards a man who is just doing what he believes in himself to do.

 

[nickdnz]

I know what you guys are all saying, I really do understand but come on,....

Give the guy a break... Before the fight, people were saying, oh it's gonna be close, SBW is gonna get knocked out. Then he won, now its, the man was overweight, Tillman is a nobody, etc... And the same thing happened before and after his first fight against Gary Gurr..
No I don't think SBW is a top class boxer, that comes with experience. No, I don't think he was the most potential candidate to fight for the vacant ***le simply because he hasn't been around long enough, but then again, who else has?, It doesn't look like Tua wants the belt and Cameron dropped weight divisions after talking smack and then getting demolished by Tua. One major player in Boxing is entertainment and money, SBW draws the crowds and the media so he was the best bet for a non-existent NZ Boxing Association.
The man is a supreme-athlete and it's obvious he works hard to get where he is.
What does he have to do? Fight Vitali Klitschko himself? And even then, the excuse will be something like,... oh Vitali is 40 and passed his prime. Most people fight nobodies in the beginning of their careers, it's all part of the coming up process and let's face it, it's not like New Zealand has much A-Class boxers to begin with.
SBW lands his punches and he lands them well, he has an un-co style but he does land his punches, he looks very professional when he's in the ring.
So please, give the man a break, it seems like, no matter what he does, no one will take him seriously.
Again, I don't think hes a top boxer at all,... just tired of all the hate towards a man who is just doing what he believes in himself to do.

The problem I have with this argument is, he's either a new boxer who should be given slack, or he is a challenger for the New Zealand Heavyweight ***le. Yes he's new, but you don't pay $39.99 to watch a new boxer in the ring and a new boxer should not be given an oppertunity to win the NZ ***le (even if the ***le is a joke one). If he was going to fight someone for the New Zealand ***le he should have been up against one of New Zealand's best boxers. Chauncy Welliver is the real champion, rated 6th in the world by the WBC and 10th in the world by WBO. They should have challeneged him for the New Zealand ***le. It's like me hand picking a boxing match between myself and Rick Waller for a vacant belt and then claiming I'm the World Heavyweight Champion.

As it is, I don't think he's going up against any genuine challengers. Shane Cameron has said he is interested and Chauncy Welliver said that if he is approached he would do it, but didn't think SBW was ready. I think SBW will be the most well managed boxer in the world and not see any real fighters for his ***le. His first defense has to be against someone in the top 10, and his second has to be the number 1 contender, however I very much doubt the NZPBA will allow their cash cow to put himself in danger.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Nick,

What I have a real problem with re Sonny Bill is that he is (in my opinion) undeserving of accolades he has received.
On top of that, his track record shows he is not a team man, and is all about himself.
It gives me (and much of NZ) the perception that the guy has little integrity.

Lets break it down.
Boxing:
Would he even be fighting for the NZ ***le if he wasn't a "name" and Lance Revill wasn't cashing in on it?
No he wouldn't. Undeserving of even a ***le SHOT.
Rugby:
Honestly, can you put your hand on your heart and say that guy was deserving of a RWC medal based on his ability?
I certainly can't.
Yes, he has had his moments on the rugby field where he has looked good, but inversely- at times his play (and especially his defence) has looked downright awful.
On top of that, he had this sense of entitlement that he should be in the starting 15. He even had Mundine (the complete %%^&&tard that he is) tweeting that SBW should be in there at the expense of Nonu/Smith!! SBW isn't fit to lace their boots as a player, and a team man.

Ok some of my percetion of SBW might be due to the company he keeps.
But then- thats HIS choice to keep that travelling circus of chimpanzees with him.

I was thinking this morning; why is an athlete like Richie McCaw so well regarded, and why is there so much bile re SBW?
I came to this conclusion;
SBW is firstly for himself. The team and everyone else second.
He packed a sad after the RWC final, and used some lame excuse re a sick grandma to not participate in ANY victory parades/civic ceremonies, then claimed the other night that his Boxing win was the greatest moment in his career!!??? WHAT?
IMO he shouldn't have been given an ABs jersey.

He shows no loyalty, and has been through the Bulldogs, Toulon, Canterbury/Crusaders and now the Chiefs in the last 5 or so years.
He's a merc. And the team jersey means zero to him.

Now look at Richie.
Everything he has done he has done out of hard graft, loyalty and respect for others.
He dosn't look to self-promote, and more often than not will deflect any parise onto the rest of his team. He is the consummate professional, and will put his body on the line for his team and for the jersey.


Sorry Nick, but as they say; actions speak louder than words, and although SBW makes all the right noises, his behaviour belies his attitude.

 

[Sam Owen]

Honestly, can you put your hand on your heart and say that guy was deserving of a RWC medal based on his ability?
I certainly can't.

His abilities on the rugby field can be very entertaining. Although it could be something made to look so simple as an offload, its still entertaining when he does it. Just an offload?..well if that was the case everyone would be doing it. All the other 12s in the world can do it as well but they're either

1. Unable to stay on their feet long enough
2. Arms arent long enough to get around
3. They dont draw in as many defenders, as well as commit their support runners would-be defender on to them
4. More conservative and look to take the tackle
5. Only able in a once in a blue moon situation

"Just intercept his off-loads", says the arm chair critic to the rugby professional. Just like the 'doing' the off-load some things are easier than it looks.

SBWs attacking abillities are suited to All Black rugby. Something Henry and co. saw in Sonny. However I dont think they ever planned for Sonny to be out on the wing when they chased him. Sonny was made to play with little game time and out of position and fair enough. Initially they saw him as a spark in the midfiled, they wanted him to be a crack in the middle of the dam. One thing about the AB backline is their flair on attack, the roll on, not letting the ball die. This is where Sonny is ideal but instead he was Sonny the winger, still he was an All Black and I think all of the All Blacks deserve their accolades.

Now look at Richie.
Everything he has done he has done out of hard graft, loyalty and respect for others.
He dosn't look to self-promote, and more often than not will deflect any parise onto the rest of his team. He is the consummate professional, and will put his body on the line for his team and for the jersey.

Ritchies boring. Apart from rugby, Ritchies boring. Good rugby captain, champion rugby player, everything else good about him is the requirement of an All Black captain.

SBW is firstly for himself. The team and everyone else second.

Heaps of people like that, a lot of them rich.

 

[Amobokoboko]

The fight was a bit of a joke. Way too much media hype around it and it only lasted one round <_<.

 

[nickdnz]

Nick,

What I have a real problem with re Sonny Bill is that he is (in my opinion) undeserving of accolades he has received.
On top of that, his track record shows he is not a team man, and is all about himself.
It gives me (and much of NZ) the perception that the guy has little integrity.

Lets break it down.
Boxing:
Would he even be fighting for the NZ ***le if he wasn't a "name" and Lance Revill wasn't cashing in on it?
No he wouldn't. Undeserving of even a ***le SHOT.
Rugby:
Honestly, can you put your hand on your heart and say that guy was deserving of a RWC medal based on his ability?
I certainly can't.
Yes, he has had his moments on the rugby field where he has looked good, but inversely- at times his play (and especially his defence) has looked downright awful.
On top of that, he had this sense of entitlement that he should be in the starting 15. He even had Mundine (the complete %%^&&tard that he is) tweeting that SBW should be in there at the expense of Nonu/Smith!! SBW isn't fit to lace their boots as a player, and a team man.

Ok some of my percetion of SBW might be due to the company he keeps.
But then- thats HIS choice to keep that travelling circus of chimpanzees with him.

I was thinking this morning; why is an athlete like Richie McCaw so well regarded, and why is there so much bile re SBW?
I came to this conclusion;
SBW is firstly for himself. The team and everyone else second.
He packed a sad after the RWC final, and used some lame excuse re a sick grandma to not participate in ANY victory parades/civic ceremonies, then claimed the other night that his Boxing win was the greatest moment in his career!!??? WHAT?
IMO he shouldn't have been given an ABs jersey.

He shows no loyalty, and has been through the Bulldogs, Toulon, Canterbury/Crusaders and now the Chiefs in the last 5 or so years.
He's a merc. And the team jersey means zero to him.

Now look at Richie.
Everything he has done he has done out of hard graft, loyalty and respect for others.
He dosn't look to self-promote, and more often than not will deflect any parise onto the rest of his team. He is the consummate professional, and will put his body on the line for his team and for the jersey.

Sorry Nick, but as they say; actions speak louder than words, and although SBW makes all the right noises, his behaviour belies his attitude.

I had a bit of a laugh reading this. Not because I don't agree with a lot of it, simply I can't work out what makes you think I like Sonny Bill Williams. However I will suggest a few things.

First. I agree that the only thing Sonny Bill Williams has every really excelled at is League, in which had he stayed he'd have been considered a great. In rugby I agree, he has coasted off his reputation. Is he good? He's pretty good. Did he deserve a call in the All Blacks end of year tour? Probably not in front of Robert Fruean. Did he deserve a spot in the RWC? Not ahead of Hosea Gear and certainly not on the wing. Is he better than Nonu? No way (despite what the fanboys said after one good game against Scotland). He's only looked alright in two games, Scotland and Japan and both were slaughters. As a boxer, I pointed out in several posts why I think he's a bit of a joke.

But what always comes back to me is this. It's not his fault. The NZRU signed him on a huge one year contract (with all the benefits) to give him (an unproven rugby player) oppertunities in an All Black jersey that loyal players got dismissed for. Who's the bad guy there, the guy who took the money or the NZRU who signed him? I'd say the NZRU. They choose to rob a player of a jersey for what was ultimately a marketing decision and it paid off big, at least in the short term. And as much as we all ***** and moan about Sonny Bill Williams, we are the people which are generating the interest for him to make all the decisions he makes. If no one cared that we was doing his little boxing thing, no one would buy the PPV and he'd stop boxing. If no body went to see games just to see SBW, then he'd stop making the All Blacks, and then he'd **** off back to Europe or Leage (which is where he really belongs).

I did laugh at SBW's "this is the greatest feelling" tripe he said. It did make me think which would Hosea Gear prefer, winning a boxing match against Tillman or winning a Rugby World Cup as a team effort. Preffy sure I know the answer.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Sam,

You're entitled to your opinion on SBW (and you obviously love the guy and hey, that's your perogative) but sorry mate- he isn't at the standard of the current midfielders the ABs have at their disposal.

You say that it's cool for SBW to be about himself first and foremost cos "heaps of people are like that, a lot of them rich"
That's fine- that was kind of my point about why I don't like him. He has chosen money over integrity.
His legacy will be one of wasted talent if he keeps going the way he is. He will never, ever hold a handle to the likes of McCaw etc in public opinion, because McCaw has more integrity and character in his broken foot that in all of SBW.
And at least McCaw can make decisions for himself instead of been led around by a pack of absolute d!ckheads like SBW does.

Also, you say McCaw is boring.
I'm assuming that is because he isn't out there deliberatly whoring himself out to the media like SBW does. That whole Jaime Ridge thing looks like about as much of a set-up as his last boxing match. But maybe that's the Ridge's fault as much as SBW

Oh and Sam- maybe watch this if you think Richie McCaw is boring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrzcMagsWUM

Seems like a pretty good bloke to me. And he has never appeared boring in an interview.


Nick,

I take your point mate. The NZRFU do play a big part too.


Lastly guys- I just want to add that what I have written is MY perception of SBW. Behind closed doors he could well be the nicest guy in the world.

But look at the real Superstars of NZ sport over the years. The likes of Hadlee, Lomu, Fitzpatrick, McCaw, Carter, Snell, Halberg, Meads etc and most recently Benji Marshall. Look at the way they carry themselves, and the mana they have in the public eye.
Their behaviour and attitude is what I am trying to reference here. If SBW behaved more like them he would have the whole of NZ behind him.
People say that NZers have a "tall poppy syndrome" where we will try and cut people down if they get too big.
I would argue that that perception isn't true.
We love our high achievers. Look at the love for the likes of Peter Jackson, Peter Blake, etc. The public love those guys.
We just don't like those who appear to lack integrity.