Shaun Edwards To England

[Sir Speedy]

"I give a lot of credit to wales for their performance in the 6 nations but they arnt good enough to win a world cup now or ever." - Danny.
I dont see how this can even be an opinion, all I see is an attempt to make some Welsh poster go nuts as we are currently in a position that we haven't had for three years.
Now that we're all in a good mood, you're just being a WUM'er (Wind-Up artist, if you didn't know) and your comments are exactly as the picture stated, as there is no proof now, or before, to say that Wales cannot win a World Cup.

"Thats what I like, if you cant prevail in a discussion(not an arguement) then put a silly,childish little picture with the word "fail "at the bottom. Cant believe you actually went to the effort of finding that picture.Sad boy!!"

There wasn't much to prevail in, since it was neither a discussion or arguement, just a pathetic attempt to annoy the Welsh posters on the forum.
And by the way, it only took me typing the word "Fail" into Google Image Search to find me that image. And enjoy your neg rep, for insulting me for the second time.

 

[dullonien]

Its good that you welsh boys stick together but sometimes you need to stop and listen rather than think I am havin a go at your team for the hell of it. I really rate this current Welsh team and Im looking forward to going to see them in Cardiff in a pressure situation this weekend. But to win a world cup you need a good number of players who are the best in their position in the world. Wales simply havent got that. They have some very good players but can you tell me who out of the Welsh team is the best in the world in their respective position. This is where I have one over my doubters(and I have many-surprisingly).
As for your Argentina arguement------------ They didnt win it.
I rest my case!! [/b]

So you want a list of players who are the very best in their respective positions, of course this is subjective and everyone's opinions will differ, but give me a go.

Shane Williams - one of the best wings in the world (he might not be round for the next world cup though)
Martyn Williams - again, up there with the very best (won't be there in 2011 either)
Gethin Jenkins - one of the best props around.
Ryan Jones - again, one of the best no. 8's. Also appears to be one hell of a captain.
Alun-Wyn Jones & Ian Evans - both have all the attributes to become the best.
Dwayne Peel - currently off form, but widely considered the best scrum half when he's playing well.
James Hook - Already up there with the best, can only see him getting better. Should be real world class in a year or two.
Gavin Henson - Aren't many better 12's in the world, still believe he has allot left to come.
Lee Burne - at his current form, who's better? Latham, Hernandez (when playing fullback), Heymans are the top, but Burne's up there.
Tom James & Jamie Roberts - two young players with excepional talent, I'm betting on both being Wales regulars come 2011.

Right, think I've proved my point!

I know my Argentina argument didn't hold up well, but it shows that a team with small recources can do well. Why does a team need 100's of players to win a world cup anyway, you can only take a squad of 40 (?, can't remember how many), as long as you have roughly 30 top class players, should be enough, less considering how England won it back in 03. Again as England proved (especially last year), having a good team is more important come world cup than the sum of it's players abilities, after all, to win a world cup 3-4 good games is all that's needed.

 

[danny]

<div class='quotemain'> Its good that you welsh boys stick together but sometimes you need to stop and listen rather than think I am havin a go at your team for the hell of it. I really rate this current Welsh team and Im looking forward to going to see them in Cardiff in a pressure situation this weekend. But to win a world cup you need a good number of players who are the best in their position in the world. Wales simply havent got that. They have some very good players but can you tell me who out of the Welsh team is the best in the world in their respective position. This is where I have one over my doubters(and I have many-surprisingly).
As for your Argentina arguement------------ They didnt win it.
I rest my case!! [/b]

So you want a list of players who are the very best in their respective positions, of course this is subjective and everyone's opinions will differ, but give me a go.

Shane Williams - one of the best wings in the world (he might not be round for the next world cup though)
Martyn Williams - again, up there with the very best (won't be there in 2011 either)
Gethin Jenkins - one of the best props around.
Ryan Jones - again, one of the best no. 8's. Also appears to be one hell of a captain.
Alun-Wyn Jones & Ian Evans - both have all the attributes to become the best.
Dwayne Peel - currently off form, but widely considered the best scrum half when he's playing well.
James Hook - Already up there with the best, can only see him getting better. Should be real world class in a year or two.
Gavin Henson - Aren't many better 12's in the world, still believe he has allot left to come.
Lee Burne - at his current form, who's better? Latham, Hernandez (when playing fullback), Heymans are the top, but Burne's up there.
Tom James & Jamie Roberts - two young players with excepional talent, I'm betting on both being Wales regulars come 2011.

Right, think I've proved my point!

I know my Argentina argument didn't hold up well, but it shows that a team with small recources can do well. Why does a team need 100's of players to win a world cup anyway, you can only take a squad of 40 (?, can't remember how many), as long as you have roughly 30 top class players, should be enough, less considering how England won it back in 03. Again as England proved (especially last year), having a good team is more important come world cup than the sum of it's players abilities, after all, to win a world cup 3-4 good games is all that's needed.
[/b][/quote]
So you have 11 players who are the best in the world in their position, cos thats what I asked you to prove. Congratulations on the next world cup . Cant wait to be in Cardiff on saturday to see the grand slam winners( i actually mean that).

 

[Sir Speedy]

Dwayne Peel - Best scrum-half in the World at his best, and it's only a matter of time.

James Hook - Will improve as he matures, and he's already a class act now.

Shane Williams - Him and Clerc are the best wings in Europe.

Martyn Williams - One of the best flankers in the World.

Lee Byrne - Not the best in the World, but he only has two or three in front of him.

That's five, and the two Williams' can make a huge influence on young wingers and flankers such as Tom James, Jamie Roberts and Robin Sowden Taylor.

 

[danny]

Dwayne Peel - Best scrum-half in the World at his best, and it's only a matter of time.

James Hook - Will improve as he matures, and he's already a class act now.

Shane Williams - Him and Clerc are the best wings in Europe.

Martyn Williams - One of the best flankers in the World.

Lee Byrne - Not the best in the World, but he only has two or three in front of him.

That's five, and the two Williams' can make a huge influence on young wingers and flankers such as Tom James, Jamie Roberts and Robin Sowden Taylor.
[/b]

Its alright being patriotic but you are joking with some of those names.Robin Sowden Taylor best in his position in world rugby?? I didnt realise that. Lee Byrne not the best but 4th best ? Shane williams is one of my favourite players but wouldnt get near the NZ team.Dwayne Peel Class 9 but best in the world-no!. The only Welsh player who is near the best in his position is Jones at 8 and that is highly debatable.

 

[shazbooger]

This is just fecking daft now.

First of all, to assume Wales will never win the world cup is plain .................... hmmm I dont know, your just being stubborn on that point. I can understand you sticking to your guns given the response from the Welsh lads, but you know its nonsense.

Wales have a population of 3million, Ireland a population of 6million, England a population of 50 million. Sure we dont have as many registered players but **** it, New Zealand has a population of 4.2million or so. By that kind of logic they wouldnt have a chance either long term. Wales domestic game is going through a rough time at the moment, but of all the celtic nations, they are the ones set to come out the other side. Where Scotland and Ireland may fade further and further away, Wales have just taken longer to adapt to professional rugby. It will come, and so will the talent. Dont get me wrong, I dont think Wales are currently the best of a bunch of bad home nations, but they arent without hope.

As for Edwards going to England. Eventually he will. Personally I think if he was offered the head coaching job he would jump at it. Whether he would leave Wales, or more importantly his friend Gatland, to become an assistant coach, I'm not so sure. Then again didnt yer man Hansen, and Scott Johnson do the very same things to go off and coach with NZ and Australia respectively?

It doesnt look to be a straight forward decision though. He still has connections with Wasps doesnt he? So he has two bosses? If so you could harldy say he's fully committed tot he Welsh cause. He has family in the South of England and is reluctant to stay away from them for too long. But on the other side, he's ambitious enough and enjoys working with Gatland. I would say anything else except for the Head Coach's job would not be such a simple decision.

Oh and listing off a load of fairly average players in some attempt to compare with the best, proves no point at all. I dont think many people outside of Wales share your opinion on those players. They were the same group that failed to qualify from their group in the world cup after losing to Fiji? I could list O'Driscoll, D'Arcy, Leamy, O'Connell etc or for England you'd have Strettle, Wilkinson, Cipriani, Sheridan etc. but it wouldnt prove anything if I'm not wearing my special rose coloured glasses.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
Dwayne Peel - Best scrum-half in the World at his best, and it's only a matter of time.

James Hook - Will improve as he matures, and he's already a class act now.

Shane Williams - Him and Clerc are the best wings in Europe.

Martyn Williams - One of the best flankers in the World.

Lee Byrne - Not the best in the World, but he only has two or three in front of him.

That's five, and the two Williams' can make a huge influence on young wingers and flankers such as Tom James, Jamie Roberts and Robin Sowden Taylor.
[/b]

Its alright being patriotic but you are joking with some of those names.Robin Sowden Taylor best in his position in world rugby?? I didnt realise that. Lee Byrne not the best but 4th best ? Shane williams is one of my favourite players but wouldnt get near the NZ team.Dwayne Peel Class 9 but best in the world-no!. The only Welsh player who is near the best in his position is Jones at 8 and that is highly debatable.
[/b][/quote]
:huh: Uh, kay, whatever you say.
Could you name a better 9 than Peel at his best? And I was using Sowden Taylor as an example of a player who could improve significantly learning from Martyn.

 

[SaintsFan_Webby]

Could you name a better 9 than Peel at his best? [/b]

Fourie Du Preez.

Good though Peel is when on form (which he hasn't been for quite some time it has to be said), I don't think he could have put in a dominant performance to the extent Du Preez managed against England in the RWC

 

[Sir Speedy]

I'll admit that (He was incredible at the WC), although he would need to play like that consistently (he wasn't that great against Fiji or England in the final), but I'd be happy for our country to have the second best scrum-half in the World . It'd be great to see them both face each other off (which they haven't done for a while).
When it comes to scrum halves, I'm surprised no-one mentions Raulini, who outplayed both Peel and Du Preez in their clashes during the WC.

 

[dullonien]

I wasn't just relling off a load of 'averge' players. I was replying to danny, and I believe those players are either up there at the top or have potential to be. Nothing wrong with that. If it was the team with the bast players that won the Wrold cup every time, then surely NZ would have won every year. South Africa didn't have the best players in every position, the had a couple at the very top, Habana etc. and other which were up there with the best.

Logorrhea - you talked alot of sence there, of course England have the best chance of success, due to the massive player base they have at their disposal, and by the law of avarages, should produce more top class players. But for some reason, it doesn't work like that. New Zealand produce so many class players (seeing the likes of King, Tiatia, Rush etc. here in Wales with only a few caps each proves this). Wales can boast some of the best players ever to have graced the game, coming from a population of 3m.

Quite enjoying this debate.

 

[Thingimubob]

danny
I see what you're trying to say, but I think you're being really harsh and unfair. I mean, you would probably be up in arms if I said 'England will never win another World Cup' because sometime in the future, they will probably win another one. It's exactly the same thing for Wales, they are going to win one eventually, with a bit of luck, while I'm still young. And like somebody said, Wales have a population of around 3 million, New Zealand have just over 4 million. Not that much of a difference in National Population terms, and with a few changes in the national set up (like adding extra regions, especially in the north and investing in National and Regional 'A' squads) it could see Wales be a big force in World Rugby. Warren Gatland could be the man to improve the set up, and hopefully Shaun Edwards will stay long enough to make a big impact.
Our youth is strong and talented (Tom James, Jamie Roberts, Morgan Stoddard, Aled Thomas, Gareth Owen, Bradley Davies, Jonathan Davies to same just a few) , so it's not as if Wales don't have the talent to work with, but now we have a good coach to help mould them into World Class players.

So next time, please be a bit more considerate man! I;m not having a go, just saying pointless, insulting, comments about Wales, or any other country, are just daft.

 

[Cymro]

<div class='quotemain'>
Dwayne Peel - Best scrum-half in the World at his best, and it's only a matter of time.

James Hook - Will improve as he matures, and he's already a class act now.

Shane Williams - Him and Clerc are the best wings in Europe.

Martyn Williams - One of the best flankers in the World.

Lee Byrne - Not the best in the World, but he only has two or three in front of him.

That's five, and the two Williams' can make a huge influence on young wingers and flankers such as Tom James, Jamie Roberts and Robin Sowden Taylor.
[/b]

Its alright being patriotic but you are joking with some of those names.Robin Sowden Taylor best in his position in world rugby?? I didnt realise that. Lee Byrne not the best but 4th best ? Shane williams is one of my favourite players but wouldnt get near the NZ team.Dwayne Peel Class 9 but best in the world-no!. The only Welsh player who is near the best in his position is Jones at 8 and that is highly debatable. [/b][/quote]

Re-reading that post over and over again Speedy and I cannot find where you quote 'but you are joking with some of those names.Robin Sowden Taylor best in his position in world rugby??' now if you read back over what he actually said he actually said that Williams could have a huge influence on players, not once did he declare RST to be a World Class player (as of yet!) Let's look at England's full back Ian Balshaw or should it be turned to Balshite? Byrne although I dont like him has been a player inform for Wales and looks twice the player he was last season! Calling Ryan Jones a debatable choice for best and probably only Welsh player in the world is a pile of gash!

And some would say:

Ryan Jones has not been at his great and he will admit this himself and what makes it amazing is the fact he is not at his best but still doing the biz around field! A tad more than some players I could mention from the England side! Shane Williams is once again showing that he is not weak and poor as some have called him and he is now playing well because the confidence has been restored at the backline by Gatland and Edwards!

No one is being patriotic mate it's just yourself miss reading the point as per usual!

If you want patriotic look at this pic

That is being patriotic! Someone defending their nation is allowed to do so when under attack ... oh wait in your eyes it may not be!

<div class='quotemain'>
Hey, if Shaun Edwards decides to go then fair play and good luck to him.
He's already helped us find our feet. We'd love to keep him but never against his own will.

Also, not sure how to respond to some of Danny's BS.
[/b]

Big man neg rep`ing me for stating my opinion. Edwards is obviously enjoying his time as wales no2 as they are doing so well but hes English and its natural that he would be with the team of his birth if it was a straight and fair choice. The RFU gave him no choice but to join the Welsh ranks with a position with England 2nds and quater the pay. In my opinion England have more chance of winning the next and future world cups than Wales due to resoures and finance. I dont give a f*** if you dont like that but its what I think.
I give a lot of credit to wales for their performance in the 6 nations but they arnt good enough to win a world cup now or ever. [/b][/quote]

Mate you absolutly hate it when someone neg rep's you and your way of going about it is neg rep someone for neg repping you! You are a baby because every time you get neg rep you go and give it straight back! Understand the rep system (something I have had to do over the last few months!)

Regarding Wales and it's WC ambition, I would love to see Wales win the WC because unlike England we would not have one open top bus we would have 60 open top buses! Also the standard of England playing rugby currently they would also never have a chance of winning it again! We know we aint the finished article at the moment but Gatland and Edwards is turning round the side! The next World Cup is some 3-4 years away now anything could happen then and I mean anything as far as we know Fiji could emerge as a new powerhouse 15's side or Wales might actually win something decent :blink: heaven forbid that though!

You are 36 and acting like a 6 year old! Act your age and man up because most of your posts I read are of poor standard and always having a dig at people for no reason!!!

 

[Macsen]

They're saying in the Times that Brian Ashton's job is 'secure'. If I were Shaun Edwards I'd stay where I was!

 

[shazbooger]

Jesus lads let up. Danny actually had a point, and a fairly valid one at that. He phrased it poorly, but the fact remains that the chances of Wales winning a WC in four years time are slim. Then again the chances of any of the home nations winning the next WC are slim.

England will have the better chance given the resources available to em, Shaun Edwards is English, He likes living in the south, so the chances are he will go eventually. As did Henry, Hansen, Johnson etc.

As for the rep'ing. This is a rugby forum, not a popularity contest. Give it a rest and + rep me while your at it bee-hatches : )

 

[danny]

I didnt realise I wasnt allowed to comment on anything concerning Wales without everyone getting upset.I couldnt care what they do to be quite honest. I think the comments from Cymro were well over the top and surely wanting to rape me is against rugby forum rules.

 

[RC]

Ok, unfortunately this topic has turned quite sour.
The discussion is no longer going anywhere and has certainly meandered of the original discussion.
I am going to close this so no one else gets offended and shall take this up with the rest of the staff.