SH Opinions of potential Lions Players

[shazbooger]

My own personal thoughts are that if the Lions were to tour tomorrow, we'd really really struggle. I think were always capable of putting a backline together that can compete with any teams out there, but without a pack were fooked. Weve always relied on the English to beef up the forward unit but I'm just not seeing the players coming through and i dont see the Celtic nations providing the power to match the Boks.

Anyhoo, I saw this question raised in the recent NZ vs England thread. Would be really interested to hear the opinions of our SH brethren regarding a potential team to tour South Africa, or more importantly, NH players they think can take the battle to them. Are there any players, Irish, Scot, Welsh or English that you guys rate?

*Spare us the whole "No ..... lol" comments and please can we not have this turn into a Shane Williams > Everyone discussion.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Shane Williams > everyone.
Uhm... anyway...if we're talking about powerful forwards then we really are screwed...
((Sheridan - has only had one outstanding game.
Stevens - hasn't really shown much yet
Gethin Jenkins - powerful, but not so effective in the loose.
Adam Jones - Not a bad scrummager, just sucks in the loose and does nothing outside of the set-pieces.

I don't really watch Scottish or Irish rugby as much, so I wouldn't know about the front rows of them. At least we're spoilt at the lineout, which will need to be strong during the tour:

Alun Wyn Jones - tall, aggressive and good lineout jumper.
Ian Gough - powerful and a solid defender.
POC & DOC - 'nuff said really. Besides Matfield and Bakkies, they're probably the best lock pairing in the World.
Kennedy - not seen much of him but he's been immense at London Irish all year in the lineout; their lineout statistics proe this much.

Back row is hardly a problem area either with the immense talent from all four countries:
Haskell, Rees, Narroway, Martyn, Ryan, Jonathan Thomas, Delve, Quinlan, Leamy, Wallace, Taylor, White.))

in the front row...

 

[shazbooger]

You see I kinda dissagree with your thoughts on the backrow. The English backrow got spanked, the Welsh backrow got spanked, and the Irish backrow probably would have been spanked if not for the weather. North of the equator they look good, but when playing the SH teams they dont have the physicality required. Martyn Williams is a great example. Excellent player, but without a lot of support he just gets powered out of the rucks. To even things out, I'd say the same for Leamy, he hasnt had the impact in the last two years that we would have expected. In the Locks, POD and DOC got dominated against the AB's in the lineout and have never dominated this set piece as a pair (it was O'kelly and POC that did that damage to opponent lineouts).

I'm starting to respect the physicality offered by White, Quinlan and Best (just three examples) at the moment. Players that simply dont give a f*** and go in to hurt opponents with little regard for their own wellbeing. We need forwards with Martyn Williams or Jamie Heaslip's ability but the raw naked anger of a Niall Best. We dont produce them up here do we?

Anyhoo, I dont think we are beyond hope, I'm just trying to get an objective view where we stop applying the NH standards and start applying SH standards to our favourites, cause I think there is a huge difference.

 

[I Bleed Black]

Im not an expert of NH players, but I cant see you guys putting 4 cultures together and beating the current SA or ABs teams at home.

Its not that you would not collectivally have the players, but you lose when you combine 4 countries systems together in a short amount of time and then play the toughest teams at home. You're on a hiding to nothing in the professional era.

Fundamentally the Lions are as flawed as the Barbars. Destined to snatch the odd victory. And please I am not at all dishing the Lions just think it is a realsitic view.

Its not your players.... Its putting a team together.

 

[sanzar]

It's not like they don't have the time though... they have weeks to prepare against all the provincial sides in which they could easily gel if managed properly. Just think about European soccer and also rugby over there to a similar degree; all the sides are heavily laden with international players, to the point that local players can even become a minority. All of these guys are from different cultures both on and off the field, but when managed well can become a cohesive and dangerous side. So in that respect I disagree with it being a flawed concept 'in the professional era'. It's not. In 2001 they played very well for the most part, but came up against the successful Australian side in our history. 2005 on the other hand was just a shambles... Woodward seemingly made no attempt to forge them into a team and treated it more like an exhibition. Add to that that they played possibly one of the best performing All Blacks sides of the last 2 decades and it was always going to be tough.

 

[savundra92]

I really hope Danny Cipriani does not go on the tour because the amount of injuries that have happened in the past to players with potential is just frustrating. For example: Ian Balshaw used to be a brilliant rugby player when he was about 19. He was pickedfor the Australia tour and he got injured. He has lost his confidence and is now a terrible player. Its sad to see because he could have been really good.

 

[Prestwick]

It's not like they don't have the time though... they have weeks to prepare against all the provincial sides in which they could easily gel if managed properly. Just think about European soccer and also rugby over there to a similar degree; all the sides are heavily laden with international players, to the point that local players can even become a minority. All of these guys are from different cultures both on and off the field, but when managed well can become a cohesive and dangerous side. So in that respect I disagree with it being a flawed concept 'in the professional era'. It's not. In 2001 they played very well for the most part, but came up against the successful Australian side in our history. 2005 on the other hand was just a shambles... Woodward seemingly made no attempt to forge them into a team and treated it more like an exhibition. Add to that that they played possibly one of the best performing All Blacks sides of the last 2 decades and it was always going to be tough. [/b]

Indeed, its how the Captain and Coach do to forge partnerships between players who'd usually be knocking chunks out of each other and how to get a team spirit going pretty damn quickly. The Lions DVD for the 1997 tour was genius, mostly because of the silly little drinking sessions and 'punishments' meted out by kangaroo courts, usually involving downing pints of beer or if you were Ian McGeechan, downing shots of whisky.



No idea what Sir Clive would make of all of that and I think it belies the gulf of management style between the two NH greats of Rugby management.

 

[gavinteo]

the important thing is that gavin henson will partecipate it!

 

[Sir Speedy]

the important thing is that gavin henson will partecipate it!
[/b]

Not if my shotgun has anything to say about it...

 

[cyRil]

<div class='quotemain'>
the important thing is that gavin henson will partecipate it!
[/b]

Not if my shotgun has anything to say about it...
[/b][/quote]
Huh?!!

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
the important thing is that gavin henson will partecipate it!
[/b]

Not if my shotgun has anything to say about it...
[/b][/quote]
Huh?!!
[/b][/quote]
Que?!!

 

[cyRil]

<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
<div class='quotemain'>
the important thing is that gavin henson will partecipate it!
[/b]

Not if my shotgun has anything to say about it...
[/b][/quote]
Huh?!!
[/b][/quote]
Que?!!
[/b][/quote]
Pourquoi?!!

 

[Sir Speedy]

Pourquoi?!!
[/b]

Parce que it would be ironic for him to get injured a few days before the tour after he's practically guaranteed his place in the team after 2 years of toss.
It was a sort of tongue-in-cheek comment. >.>

 

[cyRil]

<div class='quotemain'>
Pourquoi?!!
[/b]

Parce que it would be ironic for him to get injured a few days before the tour after he's practically guaranteed his place in the team after 2 years of toss.
It was a sort of tongue-in-cheek comment. >.>
[/b][/quote]
Oh I seeeee....
I are stoopid :unsure:

 

[Sir Speedy]

Oh I seeeee....
I are stoopid :unsure:
[/b]

But I forgive you.

 

[ollybarkley]

The Lions are always such an interesting process and selection. It is my understanding that the French are touring with the side this time around, which should make selection that much more interesting, but I'm sure Geech will get it right.

 

[jawmalawm24]

I haven't watched alot of NH rugby in a long time but when I did I have a few players I rate I'll pick 2 from each nation. This is just from what I've seen of them so I know alot of people are bound to disagree with me but here I go anyway.

Irish Lockaul O'Connell
Great at the lineouts and with ball in hand sometimes lacks discipline but I still rate him one of the top 3 locks in the world.

Irish Centre:Bryan O'Driscoll not much needed to say here but he is in a class of his own I don't think there are any other centres in the world that can touch him at the moment.

English Prop:Andrew Sheridan although whenever he comes up against Hayman he's made to look quite average I still rate him because he just has immense power and contributes alot to the English pack.

English Winger:Topsy Ojo haven't seen much of him only the test against the AB's but to get 2 tries on debut and against the All Blacks deserves a mention.

Welsh Winger:Shane Williams little man with the heart of a lion who time after time has to go up against men twice or even triple the size of him but he still shows them his pace and great agility.

Welsh Flanker:Martyn Williams gets around the park and is a nuisance for most oppositions in the ruck. Played like a riot with the Barbarians and didn't see the 6 nations but must of played good for them to be the champs.

Scotland Fullback/Winger:Rory or Sean Lamont watched them both play in the RWC 2007 and they impressed me especially Rory because he played fullback and scored a few tries but I always rated Sean higher than him but either of them deserve a mention I reckon.

 

[SaintsFan_Schweinsteiger_Webby]

It is my understanding that the French are touring with the side this time around[/b]

:lol: What?



Has someone been reading a few too many 3 year old April Fools jokes?

 

[Incredible Schalk]

Irish Centre:Bryan O'Driscoll not much needed to say here but he is in a class of his own I don't think there are any other centres in the world that can touch him at the moment.

[/b]

I can see you havent watched NH rugby in a while, BOD is garbage now and has been pretty average for a few years to be honest. The likes of Mortlock,McAlistar and De Villiers are much better centres.

 

[Sir Speedy]

<div class='quotemain'>
Irish Centre:Bryan O'Driscoll not much needed to say here but he is in a class of his own I don't think there are any other centres in the world that can touch him at the moment.

[/b]

I can see you havent watched NH rugby in a while, BOD is garbage now and has been pretty average for a few years to be honest. The likes of Mortlock,McAlistar and De Villiers are much better centres.
[/b][/quote]
Not to mention Jauzion, Henson, Giteau, Steyn and Nonu...