Semi-final No.1 Northampton v Saracens

[Amobokoboko]

A very entertaining game to watch. Was the first part of a great afternoon.

 

[jaffka]

Jacques Burger was impressive. Showed what England are lacking.

 

[chippieolamus]

Jacques Burger was impressive. Showed what England are lacking.

I wouldn't have Jacques in my England team. He's a fantastic defender, but he's merely average at all other aspects of open play.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Absolutely - he's an extreme example of a one-trick pony.

 

[psychic duck]

Absolutely - he's an extreme example of a one-trick pony.

I'd pick him above Lydiate tbh.

 

[Rich Taff]

I'd pick him above Lydiate tbh.

For whom, and in what position?
I'd pick North above Adam Jones on the wing....

 

[Every Time Ref]

I assume he meant as a flanker who tackles his arse off and does bugger all else. I don't know which I'd pick from him and Lydiate, but I do agree with @chippieolamus and @ratsapprentice that he wouldn't get picked for England.

You want an example of a flanker on display in the Prem semis who England would bite of their arm to be able to pick? Read the badge below my name ...

 

[smartcooky]

Hartley cited for a head-butt

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...nd-rugby-world-cup-cited-northampton-saracens

Honestly, if Hartley cops a big ban and misses the RWC, then IMO that will increase England's chances of winning it. Hartley is a loose cannon with an appalling disciplinary record that almost descends to Danny Grewcock levels. Foe mine, he's a liability for any team he plays in, and the risk factor associated with having him play in a major match is not outweighed by his skills as a player.

For the record, has lack of discipline includes incidents of eye-gouging, biting and punching, as detailed here:

• April 2007 - Banned for 26 weeks for eye-gouging Wasps forwards James Haskell and Jonny O'Connor.
• March 2012 - Banned for eight weeks for biting Ireland forward Stephen Ferris in a Six Nations match.
• December 2012 - Banned for two weeks for punching Ulster hooker Rory Best in a Heineken Cup match.
• May 2013 - Sent off in the Aviva Premiership final and banned for 11 weeks after being found guilty of verbally abusing a match official (this one caused him to miss selection for the 2013 Lions tours).
• December 2014 - Sent off and banned for three weeks for striking Matt Smith with his elbow during the Aviva Premiership match between his Northampton Saints side and Leicester Tigers

Not listed is the raft of yellow cards he has received

 

[Jbobo]

For whom, and in what position?
I'd pick North above Adam Jones on the wing....

Debatable, Jones has some real Mass behind him.

 

[Maverick1987]

Hartley cited for a head-butt

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/20...nd-rugby-world-cup-cited-northampton-saracens

Honestly, if Hartley cops a big ban and misses the RWC, then IMO that will increase England's chances of winning it. Hartley is a loose cannon with an appalling disciplinary record that almost descends to Danny Grewcock levels. Foe mine, he's a liability for any team he plays in, and the risk factor associated with having him play in a major match is not outweighed by his skills as a player.

For the record, has lack of discipline includes incidents of eye-gouging, biting and punching, as detailed here:

• April 2007 - Banned for 26 weeks for eye-gouging Wasps forwards James Haskell and Jonny O'Connor.
• March 2012 - Banned for eight weeks for biting Ireland forward Stephen Ferris in a Six Nations match.
• December 2012 - Banned for two weeks for punching Ulster hooker Rory Best in a Heineken Cup match.
• May 2013 - Sent off in the Aviva Premiership final and banned for 11 weeks after being found guilty of verbally abusing a match official (this one caused him to miss selection for the 2013 Lions tours).
• December 2014 - Sent off and banned for three weeks for striking Matt Smith with his elbow during the Aviva Premiership match between his Northampton Saints side and Leicester Tigers

Not listed is the raft of yellow cards he has received

I know it's not really the point but his disciplinary record is pretty good playing for England . Either way I think Tom Youngs is a better option at the moment be nice if someone might be able to pull his disciplinary record for England from somewhere . Would make for interesting reading

 

[yaboyjj]

I know it's not really the point but his disciplinary record is pretty good playing for England . Either way I think Tom Youngs is a better option at the moment be nice if someone might be able to pull his disciplinary record for England from somewhere . Would make for interesting reading

He arguably lost England the game v SA in the autumn for stamping and was lucky not to be carded in the summer too for the Coles incident.
For what it's worth, the 'headbutt' is not a 'serious' incident in terms of outcome- but the intent was obviously there to lead with the head into another player. Despite his reputation, I think the committee will be somewhat lenient (I expect the England management have their ear). Saying that, I personally would rather he wasn't in the squad, because imo he's a liability whose playing ability does not sufficiently compensate for this fact anymore (if that means a ban to achieve this end, then so be it).

It would be rather fitting if George was the one to replace him in the eps- nonetheless, having missed the Lions tour two years ago- to miss the world cup in the same manner would be gutting for him.

To lose two senior players before a home world cup on disciplinary ground would be a bit of a pr disaster for Lanky- would he have the balls to drop hartley if the conviction is only for a couple of weeks? (considering the 'last chance' rhetoric, it would look rather hollow if he didn't)

 

[91jmay]

Hartley outplayed George in every aspect on weekend and is a much better player. Nothing in that 'headbutt' although it was silly thing to do.

 

[smartcooky]

[TEXTAREA]Regulation 17 Appendix 1

10.4(a) Striking with head
LE â€" 4 weeks
MR â€" 10 weeks
TE â€" 16+ weeks
[/TEXTAREA]
If they charge him Mid Range, then I think he's a goner for RWC, because with his disciplinary record, he'll get no mitigation for his previous record, in fact it is more likely to be an aggravating factor and get him extra weeks, particularly as this is his second time fronting the JO in just 5 months.

If they only charge him Low End, then he will go for four weeks plus, and possibly could serve them during any RWC warm up matches England has organised.

 

[chippieolamus]

Hartley outplayed George in every aspect on weekend and is a much better player. Nothing in that 'headbutt' although it was silly thing to do.

Could you be any more bias if you tried?

 

[Every Time Ref]

Hartley was better than he's been for a long time on Saturday, still the best hooker on display in the semis was Youngs by a country mile.

Hartley and Webber are both in the weird position of being England squad fixtures, but arguably not the best England-qualified hookers at their respective clubs.

 

[jaffka]

Absolutely - he's an extreme example of a one-trick pony.

Well that one trick pony has a winners medal now.

Not bad really!

Its a team game you see...

 

[ratsapprentice]

"Now"... He had one before didn't he?

Does it give him the ability to do more than tackle?

 

[91jmay]

Could you be any more bias if you tried?

Because I think the best hooker in England is better than another English hooker?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Because I think the best hooker in England is better than another English hooker?

Hartley is the best English hooker (discipline aside). He not a special player but a dam good one.

 

[Raggs]

He's not the best when he lacks his aggression, and when he has his aggression he's far too likely to spend 10 minutes in the bin.