Scotland's World Cup Chances

[gingergenius]

well

1. It will be a very tough group, all three sides are unknown quantities and are capable of beating each other.

2. On paper, you'd have to say England and Argentina to go through, but that means nothing.

3. Scotland have an excellent pack, are well organised, and can play 10 man rugby and beat better sides than them - I'm thinking Australia last year, Ireland in the 6N and drawing with England.

4. Scotland are also capable of losing matches they really should win - Argentina last year and Italy in the 6N. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they beat Argentina and then lose to England, or vice versa.

5. With England, you can believe what Johnson goes on about the Summer Tour and that we've turned the corner - but we were poor last Autumn, poor in the 6N and drew a series with Australia. The success of this Autumn should give a clue as to whether England are going to be clear favourites to win the pool or whether they'll be in a dogfight.

6. Argentina too are an unknown quantity. With all their players fit, they are a much better side than Scotland. But we'll have to see.

Either way, even if Scotland play to their best in every game, I can't see them winning the group and certainly not getting too far through the knockout stages. England and Argentina, you can see them getting far just because playing at their best they're capable of beating anyone except probably the All Blacks.

 

[Melhor Time]

England defeated the Wallabies because of poor kicking from Matt Giteau (missed a penalty to win), as did Scotland (missed a conversion to win).

Correct. Giteau should not be kicking goals. I think Englands win in Australia was impressive though.

Also, in Argentina, we were missing Chris Patterson who is an influential player in the squad, and with these players back, we will perform, and keep improving up to the RWC.

Would he make the team though? As I see it Parks will be 10 and Weir his backup. David Blair will be the third flyhalf if Scotland take three. Southwell and Lamont will be the two selected for fullback and Simon Danielli, Nikki Walker and Sean Lamont being the three top wingers assuming da Luca and Max Evans are to play centre. I see no place for Patterson ahead of these players.

I also think France played very poorly against Argentina. And let us not forget the form we were in against Ireland. We scored 2 tries and it was an overall brilliant display, one which you have missed out conveniently from your list.

France were not great, no but Argentina destroyed them by a record scoreline. No matter how bad France were this is the key thing to note. Vs Ireland, Scotland did very well as you did vs Wales. But, it is my view that the way Ireland and Wales play is to Scotlands advantage but Scotland cannot play the same way vs England or Argentina and be successful. In my previous post I said: The key is to score tries which again, <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

</st1:country-region>Scotland could not do in defeating either <st1:country-region w:st="on">Australia</st1:country-region> or <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1Argentina</st1:country-region> in the past 12 months. They did against <st1:country-region w:st="on">Wales</st1:country-region> and <st1:country-region w:st="on">Ireland</st1:country-region> - two teams with vastly different styles of play and defensive paterns and who, crucially, are not in the same pool as <st1:country-region w:st="on"><ST1Scotland. </st1:country-region>Scotland´s game is not suited to defeating Argentina or England who will have their best teams. They will need to play differently

I still don't think we have seen the best of Andy Robinsons side. He has done wonders and I expect him to keep improving the team all the way up to RWC.

We won't know for sure until the Autumn tests are done, and then we can make a more educated prediction.

Robinson is confident. He thinks Scotland can defeat South Africa. Good on him but I cannot see Scotland defeating South Africa or New Zealand. They will knock over Samoa though.

I think Scotland A will be in for trouble vs the USA when they meet in november at Netherdale. The form of Glasgow and Edinburgh is not so good in the Magners League. The best player for Glasgow has been a Canadian (van der Merwe) and a Dutchman (Visser) is my pick for Edinburghs best player thus far. There are three Pumas playing reguarly for these two sides and none of them are in the Pumas any longer.

Both Glasgow and Edinburgh have been doing well in the forwards but I must stress my criticism of Scotland not being able to score tries. Only their win vs Ireland had tries and there were two. Edinburgh defeated Aironi this weekend 10-9 and Glasgow lost to Ulster also only scoring only - by the Canadian. The two Scottish sides sit 9th and 10th out of 12. Three of the four first choice wingers are imports from Argentina, Holland and Canada and one of the two fullbacks playing for the Scottish teams is from Argentina. Scotland does not have players dominating in France, England or elsewhere in the Magners League to compensate for this. Southwell is doing pretty well but Rodriguez from Argentina is considered the better player at SF, despite only arriving 2 months ago. Lamont is getting lots of game time for Toulon but little ball as all they do is kick. Rodriguez playing 12 set up Southwell for a try yesterday vs Montpellier.

The centres (Ben Cairns, Graema Morrison, Alex Grove, Max Evans and Nick de Luca) are getting plenty of game time but they play for Edinburgh and Glasgow who are firstly not scoring tries and secondly not winning matches. This only goes to highlight my argument.

 

[Seaton]

@ Melhor Time

Scotland, and other teams, have beaten stronger teams through the boot in the past, and what you are saying is that from now this will never (or seldomly) happen again?

Scotland have a record of won 3, lost 2 vs Argentina since the WC, and a record of lost 3 vs Wales since then, so this clash of playing styles has little foundation.

You are lambasting Scotland because Scottish club teams for having foreign wings, yet in the same paragraph showing that you know that scottish wings are at better clubs?


You are basically saying that Scotland only win games as a result of their opponents having missing players, completely disregarding the fact that Scotland never have a full roster either, no team ever does.
You say Argentina has young players whom are only going to get better, so why is this not possible for Scotland may I ask?

 

[tinchy17]

BE WARNED ABOUT GEORGIA!!! They lost to Ireland by only 4 points in the last world cup

 

[lynam1104]

BE WARNED ABOUT GEORGIA!!! They lost to Ireland by only 4 points in the last world cup

Another pearl of wisdom

 

[tinchy17]

Another pearl of wisdom

Hopefully Scotland will do what Leinster didn't ......

 

[Finerz]

BE WARNED ABOUT GEORGIA!!! They lost to Ireland by only 4 points in the last world cup

Lets be honest though, Ireland were, to put it nicely, **** then.

 

[LittleGuy]

I don't think Georgia will beat any of the big three that being said I think that a four try bonus point will have to earned against them they can slow down the game well and have a powerful pack. The bonus points could be crucial in this group.

 

[Dizzy]

Man I just checked the match schedule, the biggest game we get in Napier is France vs Canada. and the only other game in Napier is Canada vs Japan... BOOOOO

 

[Shaggy]

Man I just checked the match schedule, the biggest game we get in Napier is France vs Canada. and the only other game in Napier is Canada vs Japan... BOOOOO

Why wouldn't you want to go and see Canada win TWICE Dizzy?

 

[lynam1104]

Japan and Canada would be pretty evenly matched IMO.

 

[Shaggy]

Japan and Canada would be pretty evenly matched IMO.

Yep, you're right, Japan is currently ranked 13 and Canada 14 ... I see they played each other and drew in the 2007 tournament

 

[LittleGuy]

Japan mathces up well with Canada for some reason, in the 2007 pool Canada had much better games versus the other three opponents(ex. lost to Australia 30-6 compared with Japan losing 91-3) then Japan did but the blossoms targeted the Canada game and gave it their all. Canada has changed a lot since then when as one commentator put it they were playing 1970's style rugby but Japan is also investing a lot into their program in order to field a respectable team in 2019 when they host the W,C the battle for third with its reward of automatic qualification in 2015 will be intense in that pool with Tonga capable of beating Canada and Japan as well.

 

[Seaton]

program in order to field a respectable team in 2019 when they host the W,C the battle for third with its reward of automatic qualification in 2015 will be intense in that pool with Tonga capable of beating Canada and Japan as well.

Sorry, the last point lost me.

Are you saying that teams that finish 3rd in their groups in 2011, automatically qualify for 2015?

Or something completely different?

 

[ranger]

Japan mathces up well with Canada for some reason, in the 2007 pool Canada had much better games versus the other three opponents(ex. lost to Australia 30-6 compared with Japan losing 91-3) then Japan did but the blossoms targeted the Canada game and gave it their all. Canada has changed a lot since then when as one commentator put it they were playing 1970's style rugby but Japan is also investing a lot into their program in order to field a respectable team in 2019 when they host the W,C the battle for third with its reward of automatic qualification in 2015 will be intense in that pool with Tonga capable of beating Canada and Japan as well.

Japan will have a pretty sharp side alright but "Respectable" isn't the word i would use. They are stacking their team with overseas players qualifying on residency.
Shaun Webb, James Arlidge, Sione Vatuvai, Micheal Leitch, Daniel Quate, Phillip O'Riley, Luke Thompson, Ryan Nicholas, Bryce Robins, Touetsu Taufa, Alisi Tupuailei, Jack Tarrant and Christian Loamanu have all been brought in, most have been poached from New Zealand. The rumor is that they are putting huge amounts of money into getting as many young NZ players over as possible and handing them caps to increase their depth and claim players as a matter of urgency incase the residency rules change.
Its pretty low really, but the on-field results should come on regardless because these are some very handy footballers. I know that Canada have been improving steadily, but my money is on Japan when they play eachother.

 

[Shaggy]

Japan will have a pretty sharp side alright but "Respectable" isn't the word i would use. They are stacking their team with overseas players qualifying on residency.
Shaun Webb, James Arlidge, Sione Vatuvai, Micheal Leitch, Daniel Quate, Phillip O'Riley, Luke Thompson, Ryan Nicholas, Bryce Robins, Touetsu Taufa, Alisi Tupuailei, Jack Tarrant and Christian Loamanu have all been brought in, most have been poached from New Zealand. The rumor is that they are putting huge amounts of money into getting as many young NZ players over as possible and handing them caps to increase their depth and claim players as a matter of urgency incase the residency rules change.
Its pretty low really, but the on-field results should come on regardless because these are some very handy footballers. I know that Canada have been improving steadily, but my money is on Japan when they play eachother.

What are you trying to say?

 

[ranger]

What are you trying to say?

The more competitive international teams around the better i suppose!

 

[Shaggy]

The more competitive international teams around the better i suppose!

Yep, I guess all international sides have had players that have qualified on residency at one time or another ... hopefully the standard is raised and more players that are born in the country will come through and make the national side.

I guess its a bit like the players qualifying for a country because a grand parent was born there ... like the Scots had the "Kilted Kiwis" a few years ago.

I only mention this so that I can make an attempt to get back to the thread topic

 

[Dizzy]

Why wouldn't you want to go and see Canada win TWICE Dizzy?

lmao!!! thats a good way of looking at it, or winning one game for retribution[losing to Japan]

 

[munster2010]

poor