Scotland v Ireland

[An Tarbh]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dullonien @ Mar 1 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (feicarsinn @ Mar 1 2009, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats a tad harsh on the other lads. i mean humphreys' defence aint great but o'gara's is also cack in that area. as for wallace not potentially being better than o'gara was yesterday drico was basically playing 10 by the end and was doing a better job then rog, having all the experiance at fly-half of john hayes so someone like paddy would surely be more capable[/b]

Totally agree with that. Even if we didn't have Hook on the bench, I'd prefer the likes of Biggar or Robinson over someone playing like O'Gara.
[/b][/quote]

and you'd get found out for it straight away.

 

[shazbooger]

Is this the Ireland Scotland thread or the Ireland Wales thread? let me know if I'm in the right area would you?

 

[shtove]

I fear Scotland - they have good runners and a good front row. Plus metronome Paterson.

Ireland could pick them apart and rack up big points.

But the fear is great ...

 

[monkeypigeon]

Well you can say the same about France, England and Wales. But if we show up and put in a performance then we win. Fullstop.

And I fear not the boot of Paterson. Our Discipline has been excellent.

 

[An Tarbh]

and he could well be on the bench again.

 

[shazbooger]

Ahhh theres no one better at ruining a party than the Scots.... whatever that means.

 

[An Tarbh]

ah Kidney mindgames, no need to understand what he means as long as it gets the job done.

 

[edinburgh_gunner]

Given Edinburgh's line up, there'll be no Paterson or Southwell if players being released is anything to go by. But then I'm not sure who'll fill in at 15 is R. Lamont is still broken.

I don't think this'll be the walkover that alot of ireland fans are anticipating. Like all gmaes for Scotland, really depends if our pack shows up. Murray was a huge boost, but we still need players like Hines - physical, hard and dynamic. We have as good a shout as anyone who's played Ireland yet to be honest, even if cause we're at home and we're begining to look as if we've worked out what those 7 players behind the scum are for.

I'm not saying we will win, i'm not saying it'd be anything short of a huge shock but let we not forget that many teams have come to Murrayfield for the grand slam and cocked it up. And Ireland are perenial chokers.

 

[An Tarbh]

well I don't think there's any Ireland fans taking this one lightly, we all remember full well what happened in 2001 and the fact that at least 3 players are still involved should avoid any complacency spreading.

 

[JohnBE]

O'Gara has been playing awful has he?


somehow I really don't agree.. his kicking game with the tee has been poor but the other facets of his game have been very good.


O'Gara controls the game like no other fly half in the six nations, there he is best.

I agree that there should be backups and other players competing for the place.. but it's hardly rog's fault he's so good and far ahead of the others in
that position even at 31.


when watching the England game i was so frustrated like everyone else was about his poor goal kicking, it nearly cost us the match.
BUT to look over everything else he does so well would be really unfair (he defended very well for example in that game).


I think sometimes we except so much of the star players. Fantastic example is O'Driscoll this season. Many people were saying ahh his best days are behind him, hes a a shell of the player he used to be and he doesn't really have it in attack.. even though he was still the top try scorer in the heiniken cup!

to use a cliche.. we judge players like rog bod, poc(who never disappoints!) by "their high standards".. Basically to conclude, I'm saying even when O'Gara isn't at his best he is still worldclass

 

[Incredible Schalk]

World class is horribly overused, O'Gara is a good dependable fly half but if lightyears behind real world class fly halves like Carter and Giteau.

 

[dullonien]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Mar 8 2009, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

O'Gara has been playing awful has he?


somehow I really don't agree.. his kicking game with the tee has been poor but the other facets of his game have been very good.


O'Gara controls the game like no other fly half in the six nations, there he is best.

I agree that there should be backups and other players competing for the place.. but it's hardly rog's fault he's so good and far ahead of the others in
that position even at 31.


when watching the England game i was so frustrated like everyone else was about his poor goal kicking, it nearly cost us the match.
BUT to look over everything else he does so well would be really unfair (he defended very well for example in that game).


I think sometimes we except so much of the star players. Fantastic example is O'Driscoll this season. Many people were saying ahh his best days are behind him, hes a a shell of the player he used to be and he doesn't really have it in attack.. even though he was still the top try scorer in the heiniken cup!

to use a cliche.. we judge players like rog bod, poc(who never disappoints!) by "their high standards".. Basically to conclude, I'm saying even when O'Gara isn't at his best he is still worldclass[/b]

lol, this has got to be a wind-up?

To say his defence was good is kinda true (for his standards), but he was still a long way behind other fly halves like Carter, Gitau and even Stephen Jones. Even Hooks tackling is now far superior to O'Gara's.

If you think he controlled that game v England, you are seriously deluded. He went completely awal in the second half, how can you not see that? O'Gara isn't 'so good' that others don't get a look in, the others are so poor or aren't given a chance!

I'm not intentionally trying to bash O'Gara, he's been a great servant to Munster and Ireland, in his time he's been up there with the best in the NH. His defense has always let him down, but in the past he's made up for it with controlling the game with his wonderful touch finders and keeping the scoreboard ticking over.

But you're constantly coming on here saying he's still playing great rugby, even though his form in this years 6 nations has been appalling and I can't believe you you can't see it!

Stephen Jones has been playing waaay better and I guarantee Hook will play better next weekend than the sh*te O'Gara's been surving up so far. I wouldn't be surprised if Godman outplays him next weekend, mind you I also wouldn't be surprised if O'Gara has a blinder!

Agree with Increadible Shalk, O'Gara's never been world class, nor has Stephen Jones for that matter. World class is over used.

 

[JohnBE]

firstly.. drawing comparision to the southern hemisphere can be done for any one


example.. Williams and Wallace are great back row forwards and really good 7s, but neither could shine the boots of McCaw.

same with the git and dan carter.. they're unreal.

But lets compare O'Gara to Jones and Hook, firstly he's better then Hook. Hook doesn't control a game properly and I don't think his backline work is great.

Jones is an excellent flary fly half who releases his backs very very well and he's a joy to watch when there are good players around him.

and I'm not blind, of course I see his form hasn't been great. but look at those two first tries against france for example and take a good look at how O'Gara was involved.. I mean look closely


to say he's been utter shite is unfair and untrue.. he isn't the player he was but he's still possibly the best fly half in the northern hemisphere, him and jones.

I am a huge fan of Jones and I love watching him play, he's so exciting! so this isn't a slant against him at all but to be fair.. most of the time I'd prefer O'Gara taking my penalties and doing the tactical kicking.. Jone's is just a great ppassing outhalf.. and I think he should start on the lines but I dunno.. he lacks a quality O'Gara has thats quite hard to describe.

but I'm looking forward to jones vs o'gara in the final game, lets see who has the bottle

 

[dullonien]

I know Hook isn't as good as O'Gara was in 2007, but he's better than the O'Gara in this years 6nations. And yes I can compare to the SH if you're going to claim O'Gara is WORLD class.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

but I'm looking forward to jones vs o'gara in the final game, lets see who has the bottle[/b]

lol, only one winner here if it's down to bottle!

Edit: don't remember O'gara having much to do in Heaslip's try v France, didn't he just pass the ball then Heaslip did the rest! Any player could have done that, and don't remember O'Gara doing anything much in O'Driscolls try, was a great line by O'Driscoll that created it!

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (JohnBE @ Mar 8 2009, 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

O'Gara has been playing awful has he?


somehow I really don't agree.. his kicking game with the tee has been poor but the other facets of his game have been very good.


O'Gara controls the game like no other fly half in the six nations, there he is best.

I agree that there should be backups and other players competing for the place.. but it's hardly rog's fault he's so good and far ahead of the others in
that position even at 31.


when watching the England game i was so frustrated like everyone else was about his poor goal kicking, it nearly cost us the match.
BUT to look over everything else he does so well would be really unfair (he defended very well for example in that game).


I think sometimes we except so much of the star players. Fantastic example is O'Driscoll this season. Many people were saying ahh his best days are behind him, hes a a shell of the player he used to be and he doesn't really have it in attack.. even though he was still the top try scorer in the heiniken cup!

to use a cliche.. we judge players like rog bod, poc(who never disappoints!) by "their high standards".. Basically to conclude, I'm saying even when O'Gara isn't at his best he is still worldclass[/b]

O'Gara's form for Ireland has been very poor this year. True, his passing is still of a high quality (when he decides not to kick the damn ball) and his tackling has improved a bit.

Against that, putting boot to ball he has been atrocious. It's not just his goalkicking either since hiis kicking for position isn't of the required standard. When he kicks poorly in Italy we're fobbed off with the excuse that he hates the Mitre ball and many accept that. When he kicks poorly in Australia and New Zealand, the oft used excuse is he finds it hard kicking on oval fields. That's bs. O'Gara has been a professional rugby player for a decade - there's no excuse for not being able to kick a ball when that's what he's primarily expected to do. His touchfinders have become increasingly inaccurate, his aimless kicking down the middle is now up there with the worst of them (he doesn't put enough height on his kicks meaning fielders of the ball have all the time in the world to make their move without having chasers in their face), he kicks the ball away in the opposition 22 at least once every game when ball in hand is the better option and his linekicking from penalties no longer have any length.

O'Gara has ability but he's 32 now and won't get any better. He needs to shape up and quickly because his current form makes him a liability in the Ireland team.

 

[dullonien]

Cheers for confirming that it's just John BE that can't see any wrong in O'Gara (apart from which he has to concede, missed goal kicks). I thought I was going mad there for a second!

 

[JohnBE]

of course I can see it but as I said.. he's not playing well by his own standards.. in present form I'd have him ahead of every other fly half in the competition with the exception of Jones.. and thats basicallly my point.

also ironically enough I'm on the other side of the argument now these last two to 3 years... I was a huge huge david humphreys fan, thought he was excellent and I think that O'Sullivan is particularly to blame for O'Gara as the sole 10 in ireland, no one else got a chance.

an opinion that seems to be shared by a good few people (maybe not on here) is that dave was one of the great great fly halfs of the modern game and it was a pity to see him completely sidelined.

and if he was still playing I'd have him on the bench..and I'd bloody bring him on.. unlike O'Sullivan.

after that longwinded statement.. what I'm saying is the stigma surrounding o'gara only at fly half has come from the lack of letting others play there for many years.. and I think, feel free to disagree, up untill he was 35-36.. Humphreys was better than o'gara

 

[Bullitt]

O'Choke is ****. Always has been, always will be.

 

[shtove]

ROG and Jones are underrated. Hook is overrated.

BOD can play outhalf. He can do anything.

 

[Sir Speedy]

Except Parisse does it better.