SBW cleared to play in the EOYT regardless of ITM Cup participation

[TRF Mr Fish]

From Stuff News... On my phone so not able to link the story just yet!

 

[donmcdazzle]

link is here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ny-Bill-Williams-granted-All-Blacks-exemption

Hardly revolutionary, just seems like they're allowing for the possibility the Roosters make the final. didn't the same happen with McAlister a few years ago?

 

[ABs2011]

Good job - he needs as much rugby as he can get to be ready for the RWC2015

 

[nickdnz]

link is here: http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ny-Bill-Williams-granted-All-Blacks-exemption

Hardly revolutionary, just seems like they're allowing for the possibility the Roosters make the final. didn't the same happen with McAlister a few years ago?

Yeah, back in 2009. The difference was we had pretty much no 10 options short of Stephen Donald during that series (and he was discarded by the ABs pretty damn quickly). We have enough midfield cover that exceptions shouldn't be made in my opinion, particularly as Crotty looked very nice at 12 last test.

Of course they will be, because it's Sonny Bill Williams who never has to be held to the same standard as other players...I'd much rather see him have a few games for CM first, I mean a two year gap from rugby union isn't negligible..

 

[Kiwiwomble]

fair enough and no surprises really.

I know he is a prodigious talent etc but its these things that annoy me, i just have more respect for those that have gone through the system. I would love to know if he would come back if they made him plan ITM

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

This of course doesn't necessarily mean he won't play for Counties before the tour.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i wonder what the odds on that are....

 

[Big Ewis]

very cool for NZ. I don't give a shiit coz the AB aren't coming to France this November but it's about time Sonny Bill came back home, his real home. He was just amazing during the 2011 RWC. Why would you do without him ?

So who would he partner up with at midfield ?

 

[donmcdazzle]

People will always get upset just because it's SBW. He is already contracted so you may as well give the coaches the option. If it was Dan Carter coming back from a sabbatical there would be zero negativity at all.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

its different to a six month sabbatical thought isn't it, he shot through very shortly after the last world cup and comes back right before the next one.

I cant be the only one that thinks its a bit of a kick in the nuts to those guys that have plugged away in super rugby and itm cup with the dream of playing for the AB's

I guess the ab's have been pretty woeful the last couple of years though....

 

[donmcdazzle]

its different to a six month sabbatical thought isn't it, he shot through very shortly after the last world cup and comes back right before the next one.

I cant be the only one that thinks its a bit of a kick in the nuts to those guys that have plugged away in super rugby and itm cup with the dream of playing for the AB's

I guess the ab's have been pretty woeful the last couple of years though....

Didn't he play the full season after the world cup? Given he already has a (presumably) lucrative contract in place, and is obviously in the plans of the coaches, why would you let a rule like that get in the way? It isn't the first time it has been done as mentioned before. Seems like a logical thing to do to me. If it was Carl Hayman or someone then nobody would care.

 

[Draggs]

Didn't he play the full season after the world cup? Given he already has a (presumably) lucrative contract in place, and is obviously in the plans of the coaches, why would you let a rule like that get in the way? It isn't the first time it has been done as mentioned before. Seems like a logical thing to do to me. If it was Carl Hayman or someone then nobody would care.

He did. Sonny Bill was part of the S15-winning Chiefs side of 2012. I remember watching his performances against Ireland in June of 2012 and wishing he was going to stay around; really began to hit the next level.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

ffs good for new zealand but see if he play's against us then were screwed, well not like we wouldn't be screwed anyway but even more screwed

 

[Kiwiwomble]

its good for the all blacks im sure but not NZ rugby in general

does anyone know how long he's signed with NZ rugby this time?

 

[donmcdazzle]

its good for the all blacks im sure but not NZ rugby in general

does anyone know how long he's signed with NZ rugby this time?

2 year contract.. an ex AB returns from 2 years overseas, commits to NZ rugby for 2 more years.. I really do not get why people are upset at this. Who really cares whether he makes a token appearance for Counties? I'm sure he could have a run off the bench for 30 seconds to appease the rule but is there any point? He hardly has to prove himself at ITM cup level we all know he was a good international 12. He is a proven commodity, the coaches know he is good and have long term plans to include him in the squad. If it was anyone other than SBW then nobody would care.

 

[smartcooky]

My 2P worth pn this issue FWIW

1. Unlike Benji Marshall, SBW has recent experience in Rugby Union; two seasons with Toulon, half a season with Canterbury, two seasons in Super Rugby (Crusaders and Chiefs), a total of 70 matches in elite Rugby Union plus 19 tests. I have no doubt he will slot near-seamlessly right back into the game.

2. He has received no more in the way of dispensation than Luke McAlister got in 2009 when he returned after playing for Sale Sharks. While SBW stayed on for a season after the 2011 RWC, who can fail to recall the indecent haste with which McAlister buggered off both after 2007 RWC, and when he didn't get selected in 2010, where he was contracted to play for North Harbour but couldn't be bothered. (ETA: Further contrast McAlister's behaviour with that of Jimmy Cowan, who signed with Gloucester in 2012, was offered a release by Southland so that he could go early to England to get settled in, and turned it down in favour of staying with Southland to see out the ITM Cup season.)

3. The likelihood is that he will play for Counties-Manukau (in which case he would not need a dispensation anyway), but the NZRU don't know how deep into the playoffs the Roosters will go and whether or not he will be injury free, so the dispensation is a wise precaution to take now rather than trying to rush something through at the last minute.

4. People accuse him of being all about the money. This is just BS; if it were true, why has he not stayed on with the Roosters, who could pay him more than we can, or signed on with Toulon, from who he could just about name his price.

5. People also accuse him of being a code-hopping mercenary, so why do they not hold him to the same standard as Brad Thorn, who switched from League to Union in 2001, the back to League in 2005 (after turning down an All Black jersey) and then back to Union in 2008. Don't get me wrong, I have only the utmost respect for Brad (I met him once, and found him to be a thoroughly pleasant man). He has been one of the toughest rugby players ever to grace either code, and has just signed for Leicester to play his 20th and final year of Elite Rugby. I just don't get why SBW gets judged by a different standard.

 

[nickdnz]

its different to a six month sabbatical thought isn't it, he shot through very shortly after the last world cup and comes back right before the next one.
I cant be the only one that thinks its a bit of a kick in the nuts to those guys that have plugged away in super rugby and itm cup with the dream of playing for the AB's
I guess the ab's have been pretty woeful the last couple of years though....

Yep, I feel it sucks for the Crotty's etc. I thought it sucked for the Benson Stanley's when he was rushed in 2012 as well. I feel like it sends the message 'you don't need any loyalty to the team, providing you are there to get the accolades once every four years (despite barely contributing in between). I remember hearing Willie Lose say 'we need him, he was the best player in the last RWC'. Seems people forget he wasn't used all that much at all, he got around 25 minutes of playoff time at all, which he got a yellow card in. We don't need him, we've done well without him so I don't understand the urgency to make exceptions for him. It's great for him to be in the running for a RWC medal and then try for a 7's medal at the Olympics, but I don't see how he is so important to make exemptions. If I was Crotty I'd ***** right off if I got dropped.

Didn't he play the full season after the world cup? Given he already has a (presumably) lucrative contract in place, and is obviously in the plans of the coaches, why would you let a rule like that get in the way? It isn't the first time it has been done as mentioned before. Seems like a logical thing to do to me. If it was Carl Hayman or someone then nobody would care.

Nope, he played two games into the following Rugby Championship.

2 year contract.. an ex AB returns from 2 years overseas, commits to NZ rugby for 2 more years.. I really do not get why people are upset at this. Who really cares whether he makes a token appearance for Counties? I'm sure he could have a run off the bench for 30 seconds to appease the rule but is there any point? He hardly has to prove himself at ITM cup level we all know he was a good international 12. He is a proven commodity, the coaches know he is good and have long term plans to include him in the squad. If it was anyone other than SBW then nobody would care.

It's really an ideological stance. I don't see what the point is in not selecting overseas based players, if you are happy to make selection exemptions. What is the point of inside centres working hard for three years to be discarded by another player not putting in the work? Why bother being loyal?

My 2P worth pn this issue FWIW

1. Unlike Benji Marshall, SBW has recent experience in Rugby Union; two seasons with Toulon, half a season with Canterbury, two seasons in Super Rugby (Crusaders and Chiefs), a total of 70 matches in elite Rugby Union plus 19 tests. I have no doubt he will slot near-seamlessly right back into the game.

2. He has received no more in the way of dispensation than Luke McAlister got in 2009 when he returned after playing for Sale Sharks. While SBW stayed on for a season after the 2011 RWC, who can fail to recall the indecent haste with which McAlister buggered off both after 2007 RWC, and when he didn't get selected in 2010, where he was contracted to play for North Harbour but couldn't be bothered. (ETA: Further contrast McAlister's behaviour with that of Jimmy Cowan, who signed with Gloucester in 2012, was offered a release by Southland so that he could go early to England to get settled in, and turned it down in favour of staying with Southland to see out the ITM Cup season.)

3. The likelihood is that he will play for Counties-Manukau (in which case he would not need a dispensation anyway), but the NZRU don't know how deep into the playoffs the Roosters will go and whether or not he will be injury free, so the dispensation is a wise precaution to take now rather than trying to rush something through at the last minute.

4. People accuse him of being all about the money. This is just BS; if it were true, why has he not stayed on with the Roosters, who could pay him more than we can, or signed on with Toulon, from who he could just about name his price.

5. People also accuse him of being a code-hopping mercenary, so why do they not hold him to the same standard as Brad Thorn, who switched from League to Union in 2001, the back to League in 2005 (after turning down an All Black jersey) and then back to Union in 2008. Don't get me wrong, I have only the utmost respect for Brad (I met him once, and found him to be a thoroughly pleasant man). He has been one of the toughest rugby players ever to grace either code, and has just signed for Leicester to play his 20th and final year of Elite Rugby. I just don't get why SBW gets judged by a different standard.

And people were ****** off McAlister got dispensation. However that did take place when the All Blacks had Daniel Carter was injured and literally no other 10s with test experience in the country other than Stephen Donald (Delany got a test later than year, but we didn't even have a David Hill). On top of that we had more injuries to our squad than we have had since, in fact looking at the first two teams to play France that seriesit is quite possibly the worst All Blacks team I have ever seen. So as much as I dislike the decision, it's safe to say the NZRU were pretty desperate. Are we really all that desperate now? I think SBW may well be a better choice than Nonu come the RWC, but I'd rather see him earn it back.

As for your money comment, I'm certain that is not all that motivates him. He could have earned more in Toulon still. It's accolades I think he wants. Which is fine but everyone wants it and you usually have to earn it. The difference between him and Brad Thorn for me - is that Brad Thorn played six years for the Broncos in his first stint, three years for the Crusaders and leaving before the 2005 Lions tour, another three years in league before returning to the All Blacks AFTER the 2007 Rugby World Cup - playing for another four years building the team, winning and then going overseas at the age of 36, coming back to play for the Highlanders. There's nothing really about his story that make him seem anything but a team man. If he turned up in 2010 with releases in his contract that if he wasn't selected he could opt out, I'd imagine people would not have the same admiration for the man. Despite SBW's obvious talent, there is a pattern in his signing that certainly make it seem like he is only there for the glory. Which is fine. But I'd rather the All Blacks selecters rewarded players there for the harder times first, and make SBW earn it.

 

[Amobokoboko]

i don't care he' snot playing ITM, he's a good player and has an X-factor, the only downside is that he will take the spot of another young promising talent who has to do all that hard work to earn the jersey. Unless Conrad decides to keep it cool and has some quiet family time next year.

 

[Gavin]

He would get more bums on seats during the ITM cup which would be beneficial to all clubs.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Yep, I feel it sucks for the Crotty's etc. I thought it sucked for the Benson Stanley's when he was rushed in 2012 as well. I feel like it sends the message 'you don't need any loyalty to the team, providing you are there to get the accolades once every four years (despite barely contributing in between). I remember hearing Willie Lose say 'we need him, he was the best player in the last RWC'. Seems people forget he wasn't used all that much at all, he got around 25 minutes of playoff time at all, which he got a yellow card in. We don't need him, we've done well without him so I don't understand the urgency to make exceptions for him. It's great for him to be in the running for a RWC medal and then try for a 7's medal at the Olympics, but I don't see how he is so important to make exemptions. If I was Crotty I'd ***** right off if I got dropped.

It's really an ideological stance. I don't see what the point is in not selecting overseas based players, if you are happy to make selection exemptions. What is the point of inside centres working hard for three years to be discarded by another player not putting in the work? Why bother being loyal?

If Crotty gets dropped then it is because he isn't good enough. You can hardly get upset because someone is a better player than you.

There is a huge difference between picking an overseas based player and picking one you've already signed for two years. That comparison is way off. Also, like I said I'm sure he could run out for 30 seconds for Counties and they wouldn't even need to make this exemption. If the person is a proven player who has committed to NZ rugby for two seasons, it seems ridiculous to suggest that they shouldn't be able to pick him.

Hansen obviously wants him in the squad, NZRU have already got him; pick him. Easy. Like I say if it was Carl Hayman or pretty much anyone else then people wouldn't even care.