Saturday, 6 August: Springboks v New Zealand

[Umaga's Witness]

I don't really think you can read too much into either teams results this year as an indicator of how this series will go.

Even though if you were to say the springboks and Ireland are equally good doesn't mean that they are equally difficult for the all blacks to beat. They are very different teams.

Also, the boks loss against wales was a positive sign if anything - that they could almost beat wales with their second team. The start of the first game was a mixture of rust and an absolute shocker from Elton. To me the springboks were dominant in the second half of the first game and in the third game. But wales isn't great right now either.

The all blacks showed some signs of improvement in attack but were still very disjointed and ultimately lacking. They showed zero improvement on defence and remained disjointed between carrier and cleaners. Tactics improved in the final test where we seriously dominated possession and territory but then couldn't handle ireland when they had their limited opportunities and also weren't good enough with attacking structures and cohesion to score enough points when we had the ball.

Our defence might be better suited to combatting the springboks attack but I'm still not confident in it.

Schmidt will be analysing the springboks so will be interesting to see what we change against them. If he analyses Ireland I wonder if he would have advised us to have different defensive structures.

Weren't really challenged in the air a lot against Ireland and will be interesting to see if we can handle their scrum. Ofa has been struggling there .

 

[GoTheNaki]

Don't get me wrong but I'm glad Kiwi's are thinking they are in trouble. I think most South Africans also have no clue of what to expect going into these two matches.

I do think however we know what our best side is (which is not something I am sure NZ knows ATM). That side just needs to step up. Kolisi had a better game second time round and Pollard as well but still a lot of room for improvement. PSdT, Faf and Kolbe all with a lot of work to do. Kolbe will probably not be available. Sounds like Vermeulen might be though. Am also not on top form but difficult to say too much as he played the majority of his second match out on the wing.

I am happy enough to continue with Hendrickse and Willemse with an eye to developing depth with younger players at 9 and 15 but its been a tad hit and miss though that is to be expected I suppose.

My hope is for a step up in terms of constructive play and then also dropping the 6-2 split. Surely we don't really need that extra forward? Rather rotate players across games rather than in-game to give us that versatility for backline players on the bench.

The people that make the decisions for the ABs don't have a bloody clue. Any SA supporter who is confident about SA's chances at the World Cup, should really EXPECT to win both games by 15+... And I'd be surprised if they don't, but I don't know as much about the SA team.

 

[Eleutherarch]

The people that make the decisions for the ABs don't have a bloody clue. Any SA supporter who is confident about SA's chances at the World Cup, should really EXPECT to win both games by 15+... And I'd be surprised if they don't, but I don't know as much about the SA team.

I've not met anyone who is out-and-out confident in SA's chances at the World Cup. My own position, and one I extrapolate for the majority of Springbok supporters, is that I am confident that we will put up a competent performance and no more or less than that at this stage. There are so many variables this far out, not least the hideously difficult path we've drawn. This series will likely be a 1-1 draw.

The notion that SA are going to put 15+ on the ABs in both games is farfetched enough to the point of being laughable. These are almost always knife-edge games, but if one team is going to put up a decent margin over the other, it'll be the ABs. I never really think of the Boks as a team putting others to the sword, more an agent of blunt force trauma causing a haemorrhagic seeping of points, without necessarily stymying the flow against themselves.

The ABs are wounded. SA are still rough and error-prone which is a conducive environment for AB scoring. SA will need to up their game significantly to be competitive in aerial contests - NZ are formidable in the air. Which Pollard is going to turn up and can he start to bind the team together? Will Mzwandile Stick be able to extract a little more proactivity from the backs overall? Will they persist with the inexperience of Hendrikse in these two games of such magnitude?

Up front I see no issue and I don't think the ABs' coaching refresh is going yield dividends in the time available.

Nervous but looking forward to it.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Battle of the teams run by glorified assistant coaches promoted over vastly more qualified domestic top level head coaches. Home advantage will be critical I imagine.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

They already had a few guys who had brushes with the law no?

Reece is the only other one...which is two more than we should have but not "a few"

Plumtree and Moar both given the boot, Jason Ryan brought in

Our defence has been wowful but Mcleod is still there

 

[Umaga's Witness]

. I never really think of the Boks as a team putting others to the sword, more an agent of blunt force trauma causing a haemorrhagic seeping of points, without necessarily stymying the flow against themselves.
.

poetry.

Interesting observation that the all blacks are formidable in the air. I thought you put us under all sorts of pressure in game one last year; jordan and bridge at least.

I wouldn't be surprised if you go back to faf.

 

[Eleutherarch]

poetry.

Interesting observation that the all blacks are formidable in the air. I thought you put us under all sorts of pressure in game one last year; jordan and bridge at least.

I wouldn't be surprised if you go back to faf.

Ha - cheers.

As for the air, I'm more going on the bits and pieces I saw in the Ireland series as it's more current. I saw some pretty decent takes, although it was a bit iffy as to whether the man in the air always got the support he needed. Say what they want about our forwards huffing and puffing, we kick and Eben's always right in the frame to receive, support or pressurise. You can't fault the work ethic.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Pretty stoked for a proper two test series in RSA. Great thing for me is the games start at 10am and end by lunchtime.

 

[OllyM97]

https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/south-africa-v-new-zealand/winner

I can't remember the last time the All Blacks were underdogs for any test match, whether home or away.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

https://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/south-africa-v-new-zealand/winner

I can't remember the last time the All Blacks were underdogs for any test match, whether home or away.

Yeah but sometimes the odds are ridiculous, that's why some of us make money off them losing.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The people that make the decisions for the ABs don't have a bloody clue. Any SA supporter who is confident about SA's chances at the World Cup, should really EXPECT to win both games by 15+... And I'd be surprised if they don't, but I don't know as much about the SA team.

Nah, I don't know any SA fans who would expect a trophy next year or even two wins coming up now as a matter of course. Not in the least. And even then, even with forward dominance we've never been a side to put teams with any sort of disruption or halfway decent defense away so I don't think if we do win anyone is expecting anything other than close affairs.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

On paper it's hard to say we stand a chance. We have a couple of players who can provide individual moments so there's always that, but otherwise.

Yes we won a game last year but it was their first games without rassie, some of their players hadn't had a lot of rugby for almost two years because of COVID, apart from the lions series which was a slugfest, they had already spent a long time in a bubble, it's hard to get up after a lions tour, etc.

On the plus side we had much harder opposition in preparation for this series.

On the downside we'll be under masses of pressure which really doesn't suit the game plan we'll need to beat South Africa (we won't beat them by playing conservatively)

 

[Becca]

Nah, I don't know any SA fans who would expect a trophy next year or even two wins coming up now as a matter of course. Not in the least. And even then, even with forward dominance we've never been a side to put teams with any sort of disruption or halfway decent defense away so I don't think if we do win anyone is expecting anything other than close affairs.

I know some SA's who are adamant the team is the best in the world and the RWC is a given.
You have to admire their loyalty !

 

[unrated]

I know some SA's who are adamant the team is the best in the world and the RWC is a given.
You have to admire their loyalty !

I harbour such ambitions too.

But also some know it's not always best to peak too soon before a world cup. The players must target a cycle and push in that window. For SA that will be next year. It's not wise to push at maximum capacity in between world cups, at least not if you are also trying to build a cohesive team that's not disrupted by widespread injuries.

 

[unrated]

I am weary of an NZ backlash but also feel regardless we should ideally always beat the All Blacks at home. Away victories are special but you have to make sure you don't lose at home. For this reason I back a SA win, previous form does not matter much, both teams aren't lighting up the world but they both will build nicely towards WC.

I would love a rugby championship ***le, and what better way than to do that by hosting your biggest rival for both your RC fixtures at home. No doubt next year in NZ it will be operation doomsday, as NZ will be heavy favourites with two of their own home fixtures.

How good is the NZ tackle break at the moment? Are they at least pushy in their midfield attack? With some slippery players on form breaking tackles or evading tackles that they shouldn't? If NZ can play to their strengths it will really put our rush defence under pressure, if not then I am pretty sure we will calmly win the forward battle, with emphasis on short forward gains, set pieces, breakdown attacks, and rush defence to make opponent lose meters. It's a Very aggressive strategy

 

[Umaga's Witness]

How good is the NZ tackle break at the moment? Are they at least pushy in their midfield attack? With some slippery players on form breaking tackles or evading tackles that they shouldn't?

Bad. Definitely not. No.

 

[Jer1cho]

 

[big ginger 8]

That can't be the actual team. Marx is starting.

 

[saulan]

That can't be the actual team. Marx is starting.

Decided they'd be nice to him on his 50th cap.

 

[WaterboySA]

Beast of a team.