SARU attempts to keep junior stars in SA

TRF_heineken · Apr 11, 2016

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/saru-attempts-to-keep-junior-stars-in-sa-20160411

[TEXTAREA]The SA Under-20 side is now registered at World Rugbyâ€™s headquarters as South Africa's No 2 team behind the Springboks.

This means that no player who has represented the Baby Boks since 2012 will be eligible to play for another country.

According to World Rugby regulations, players who have represented a countryâ€™s second-best team at international level, are not allowed to represent another nation in future.

This means that CJ Stander, a former Baby Bok star who currently plays for Ireland, was the last Junior Springbok to represent his adopted nation.[/TEXTAREA]

This is a great move IMO.

now we know our future stars won't be poached so easily...

WaterboySA · Apr 11, 2016

I never thought we would miss CJ, we have enough flankers. I'm relieved that Steven Kitshoff will not be able to play for France. We need props.

profitius · Apr 11, 2016

It's a good move by the SARU. I presume more players will pass through the U20 route than the other way.

saulan · Apr 11, 2016

I'm a bit confused why this is popping up as news now? This has been the case since 2012 and many people are well aware of it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason Tim Swiel avoided playing in the team, he wants to play for England. I have friends who were at school with him and he apparently had very little interest of playing for SA.

TRF_stormer2010 · Apr 11, 2016

saulan said:
I'm a bit confused why this is popping up as news now? This has been the case since 2012 and many people are well aware of it. I'm pretty sure that's the reason Tim Swiel avoided playing in the team, he wants to play for England. I have friends who were at school with him and he apparently had very little interest of playing for SA.

That was my understanding as well. Probably SARU just wanted some positive media coverage so they thought to rehash old news and the media is eager enough on a Monday to publish anything to generate clicks?

TRF_heineken · Apr 11, 2016

TRF_stormer2010 said:
That was my understanding as well. Probably SARU just wanted some positive media coverage so they thought to rehash old news and the media is eager enough on a Monday to publish anything to generate clicks?

Most probably that. Especially since we all await tomorrow's big unveil of the new Springbok coach. There are a lot of stories floating around, apparently the next bok captain will have to play in SA to be eligible for the captaincy.

dullonien · Apr 11, 2016

Considering we (Wales) had an interesting scenario a couple of years ago regarding Steven Shingler wanting to represent Scotland, the laws are a little less straightforward than presented in the opening post.

I believe this law only captures a player/players when both U20 teams playing against each other are nominated by their union as their second team. I.e. If SA U20's play Wales U20/France U20, then it binds all players, but if SA U20's play England U20's they aren't, due to England's second nominated team being the Saxons.

Is NZ's second team NZ Maori? Who are Aus'?

So I believe the reality is that a large number of SA players who have played for the U20's since 2012 will still be eligible to play for other nations.

Peat · Apr 11, 2016

I believe dullonien is correct.

TRF_stormer2010 · Apr 11, 2016

dullonien said:
Considering we (Wales) had an interesting scenario a couple of years ago regarding Steven Shingler wanting to represent Scotland, the laws are a little less straightforward than presented in the opening post.

I believe this law only captures a player/players when both U20 teams playing against each other are nominated by their union as their second team. I.e. If SA U20's play Wales U20/France U20, then it binds all players, but if SA U20's play England U20's they aren't, due to England's second nominated team being the Saxons.

Is NZ's second team NZ Maori? Who are Aus'?

So I believe the reality is that a large number of SA players who have played for the U20's since 2012 will still be eligible to play for other nations.

Yip, exactly that. The opposing team also needs to be nominated as a an official 2nd team. As far as I know NZ have yet to nominate an official 2nd team (at least this was the case 4 years back). I have no idea about Aus.

johnmac99 · Apr 11, 2016

There is a PDF with details of all second teams here:-

http://www.worldrugby.org/regulations/next-senior-representative-team

saulan · Apr 11, 2016

Not the case for U20 tournaments according to the pdf. If you play for the u20 in any tournament that counts as a cap and you can't play for any other nation.

dullonien · Apr 11, 2016

saulan said:
Not the case for U20 tournaments according to the pdf. If you play for the u20 in any tournament that counts as a cap and you can't play for any other nation.

Not sure that's the case in the 6 nations, hence the debate surrounding Shingler. He was only tied into playing for Wales because we faced France.

England also fielded a non english qualified player in this years 6 nations (Protheroe), so not sure how that fits into things, although the English U20's doesn't tie any player into playing for England, so maybe that explains it.

It might well count for JWC though.

It's all a bit of a mess, and should be simplified. Get rid of the 2nd team nomination, and make a decision whether U20's count across the board or not. It seems unfair to the players, and they should come first. If a nation has an 'A' side (Saxons, Wolfhounds etc), then let the union decide whether to include them too, or automatically include them.

I don't blame any unions for selecting their U20's side as a way to tie in players (if the law is there, why not use them), but it's the laws that's at fault.

saulan · Apr 11, 2016

dullonien said:
Not sure that's the case in the 6 nations, hence the debate surrounding Shingler. He was only tied into playing for Wales because we faced France.

England also fielded a non english qualified player in this years 6 nations (Protheroe), so not sure how that fits into things, although the English U20's doesn't tie any player into playing for England, so maybe that explains it.

It might well count for JWC though.

It's all a bit of a mess, and should be simplified. Get rid of the 2nd team nomination, and make a decision whether U20's count across the board or not. It seems unfair to the players, and they should come first. If a nation has an 'A' side (Saxons, Wolfhounds etc), then let the union decide whether to include them too, or automatically include them.

I don't blame any unions for selecting their U20's side as a way to tie in players (if the law is there, why not use them), but it's the laws that's at fault.

That thing I posted specifically mentions the U20 six nations as being binding to a nation IF the nation has designated their U20 team as their second national team. So an English player would be able to move around if they played in that tournament because they have the Saxons, as would Irish players because of the Wolfhounds. Do the Welsh have an A national side, or have they specified their U20 side as their second national team?

I think Shingler got away with it because (this is my speculation based on guesswork and when the South Africans made the U20s their second team) either the second national team hadn't been put in place in 2011 or Wales hadn't designated their U20s as their second national team in 2011.

EDIT: Nevermind, I should have researched what happened first:
"On 5 January 2012, Shingler was named in the provisional Scotland squad for the 2012 Six Nations, based on the fact that his mother was born in Dumfries, Scotland.[8] However, due to his appearances for Wales u-20, the WRU contested this call up, stating that Wales had officially declared their u-20 squad as their second XV at the time, which they understood made Shingler ineligible to represent any country other than Wales under the 'capture' rules.[8] The Scottish Rugby Union defended their selection, saying that Shingler had refused to sign a document tying himself to Wales and believed he was eligible to play internationally for Scotland. However the WRU challenged this position, and the IRB ruled that Shingler was only eligible to play for Wales, and not Scotland.[9][10] In May 2012 an IRB appeal hearing confirmed the earlier ruling that Shingler can only represent Wales.[11]"

It seems that this is consistent with the laws and Scotland and Shingler were just trying their luck.

smartcooky · Apr 11, 2016

TRF_heineken said:
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/saru-attempts-to-keep-junior-stars-in-sa-20160411

[TEXTAREA]The SA Under-20 side is now registered at World Rugbyâ€™s headquarters as South Africa's No 2 team behind the Springboks.

This means that no player who has represented the Baby Boks since 2012 will be eligible to play for another country.

According to World Rugby regulations, players who have represented a countryâ€™s second-best team at international level, are not allowed to represent another nation in future.

This means that CJ Stander, a former Baby Bok star who currently plays for Ireland, was the last Junior Springbok to represent his adopted nation.[/TEXTAREA]

This is a great move IMO.

now we know our future stars won't be poached so easily...

Err no, sorry to rain on your parade, but not quite. It only applies to matches they play against other countries whose have their U20 teams registered as their Second Senior National XV..

[TEXTAREA]Regulation 8.2
A Player who has played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team of a Union is not eligible to play for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team of another Union.

Regulation 8.3
For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:
(a) He is selected for such team to play in an International Match against the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union (or in a fifteen-a-side international Match against another Unionâ€™s senior or next senior Touring Squad during a WR approved International Tour) and is present at the Match played by that team either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of that team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority[/TEXTAREA]

Only two other countries have their U20 teams registered as their next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team; Wales and France.

Also, as the age of majority in South Africa is 18, any players under 18 at the time would not have their eligibility captured in any circumstances.

2012 - no match
2013 - played Wales and France
2014 - no match
2015 - played France

Only players that played for or were selected for the Baby Boks in these three matches will have their eligibility captured. You can work out who those players are from these charts.

[TABLE="class: wikitable collapsible collapsed sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]2013 South Africa Under-20 rugby union team[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Name[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]USA[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]ENG[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]FRA
[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]WAL[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]NZL[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"][/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Apps[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Pts[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Andrew Beerwinkel[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jacques du Toit[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Luan de Bruin[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]IrnÃ© Herbst[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Dennis Visser[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Roelof Smit[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jacques du Plessis[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Ruan Steenkamp (c)[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Stefan Ungerer[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Robert du Preez[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Seabelo Senatla[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]HandrÃ© Pollard[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Justin Geduld[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Luther Obi[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Cheslin Kolbe[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Mike Willemse[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sti Sithole[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Aidon Davis[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Kwagga Smith[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Hanco Venter[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Dries Swanepoel[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jesse Kriel[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]MarnÃ© Coetzee[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jannes Kirsten[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Rohan Janse van Rensburg[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Percy Williams[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Devon Martinus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jannie Stander[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: wikitable collapsible collapsed sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]2015 South Africa Under-20 rugby union team[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Name[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]ITA[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]SAM[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]AUS[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]ENG[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]FRA
[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"][/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Apps[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Pts[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Ox NchÃ©[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jan van der Merwe[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Thomas du Toit[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Abongile Nonkontwana[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]RG Snyman[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Rikus Bothma[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jean-Luc du Preez[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Hanro Liebenberg (c)[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Ivan van Zyl[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Brandon Thomson[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Leolin Zas[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]DaniÃ«l du Plessis[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]JT Jackson[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Khanyo Ngcukana[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Warrick Gelant[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Joseph Dweba[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Njabula Gumede[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Frans van Wyk[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jason Jenkins[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Dan du Preez[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Marco Jansen van Vuren[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Tinus de Beer[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Malcolm Jaer[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Grant Hermanus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Mzamo Majola[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Hyron Andrews[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jacques Vermeulen[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]EW Viljoen[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

2013 - I make it the whole squad except Jannie Stander
2015 - everyone except Rikus Botha, Hyron Andrews, Njabula Gimede, Khanyo Ngcukana & JT Jackson

dullonien · Apr 11, 2016

saulan said:
It seems that this is consistent with the laws and Scotland and Shingler were just trying their luck.

Yup, but I specifically recall that the only match in that 6 nations which tied him to Wales was the one v France. Unless the laws have been tweaked since? Walesonline ran an article today re Thomas Young being tied to Wales, and specifically mention that same game v France in the U20 6 nations.

So I'm a little confused now. I thought I fully understood the laws due to the Shingler incident....

Edit. Ah there we go, right on cue, Cooky clears everything up. Cheers SmartCooky!

saulan · Apr 11, 2016

smartcooky said:
Err no, sorry to rain on your parade, but not quite. It only applies to matches they play against other countries whose have their U20 teams registered as their Second Senior National XV..

[TEXTAREA]Regulation 8.2
A Player who has played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team of a Union is not eligible to play for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the senior National Representative Sevens Team of another Union.

Regulation 8.3
For the purposes of this Regulation, a Player is deemed to have played for the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of a Union if:
(a) He is selected for such team to play in an International Match against the senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union (or in a fifteen-a-side international Match against another Union's senior or next senior Touring Squad during a WR approved International Tour) and is present at the Match played by that team either as a replacement, substitute or a playing member of that team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority[/TEXTAREA]

Only two other countries have their U20 teams registered as their next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team; Wales and France.

Also, as the age of majority in South Africa is 18, any players under 18 at the time would not have their eligibility captured in any circumstances.

2012 - no match
2013 - played Wales and France
2014 - no match
2015 - played France

Only players that played for or were selected for the Baby Boks in these three matches will have their eligibility captured. You can work out who those players are from these charts.

[TABLE="class: wikitable collapsible collapsed sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]2013 South Africa Under-20 rugby union team[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Name[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]USA[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]ENG[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]FRA
[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]WAL[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]NZL[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"][/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Apps[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Pts[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Andrew Beerwinkel[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jacques du Toit[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Luan de Bruin[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]IrnÃ© Herbst[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Dennis Visser[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Roelof Smit[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jacques du Plessis[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Ruan Steenkamp (c)[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Stefan Ungerer[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Robert du Preez[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]28[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Seabelo Senatla[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]HandrÃ© Pollard[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]34[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Justin Geduld[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Luther Obi[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Cheslin Kolbe[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Mike Willemse[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sti Sithole[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Aidon Davis[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Kwagga Smith[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Hanco Venter[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Dries Swanepoel[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jesse Kriel[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]MarnÃ© Coetzee[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jannes Kirsten[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Rohan Janse van Rensburg[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Percy Williams[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]20[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Devon Martinus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jannie Stander[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: wikitable collapsible collapsed sortable jquery-tablesorter"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TH]2015 South Africa Under-20 rugby union team[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Name[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]ITA[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]SAM[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]AUS[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]ENG[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]FRA
[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"][/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Apps[/TH]
[TH="class: headerSort"]Pts[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Ox NchÃ©[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jan van der Merwe[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Thomas du Toit[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Abongile Nonkontwana[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]RG Snyman[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Rikus Bothma[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jean-Luc du Preez[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Hanro Liebenberg (c)[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Ivan van Zyl[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Brandon Thomson[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]59[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Leolin Zas[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]DaniÃ«l du Plessis[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]JT Jackson[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Khanyo Ngcukana[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Warrick Gelant[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Joseph Dweba[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]16

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Njabula Gumede[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Frans van Wyk[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD]18

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jason Jenkins[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]15[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Dan du Preez[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Marco Jansen van Vuren[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]21

[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Tinus de Beer[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD]22[/TD]
[TD]22

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Malcolm Jaer[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Grant Hermanus[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Mzamo Majola[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD]17

[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Hyron Andrews[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]19

[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[TD]
[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Jacques Vermeulen[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]20

[/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]EW Viljoen[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]23

[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD]13[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]0[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

2013 - I make it the whole squad except Jannie Stander
2015 - everyone except Rikus Botha, Hyron Andrews, Njabula Gimede, Khanyo Ngcukana & JT Jackson

You didn't look at 8.3 b,c and d. Specifically 8.3(d) says:

"(d) He is selected to represent the Under 20s National Representative Team of a Union which has been pre-designated as that Union's next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the Player is part of the team which participates in an International Match as part of the World Rugby Junior World Championships, World Rugby Junior World Rugby Trophy or the Six Nations U20 Championship and is present at the Match played by that Team either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of that Team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority"

So no matter what, the player won't be eligible anywhere else.

- - - Updated - - -

dullonien said:
Yup, but I specifically recall that the only match in that 6 nations which tied him to Wales was the one v France. Unless the laws have been tweaked since? Walesonline ran an article today re Thomas Young being tied to Wales, and specifically mention that same game v France in the U20 6 nations.

So I'm a little confused now. I thought I fully understood the laws due to the Shingler incident....

Edit. Ah there we go, right on cue, Cooky clears everything up. Cheers SmartCooky!

The document in question was last updated 1 January 2016, so it is quite possible it has been updated since the Shingler incident.
Here is the pdf if anyone is interested:
http://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resour...glish/pubData/source/files/Regulation_208.pdf

smartcooky · Apr 11, 2016

saulan said:
You didn't look at 8.3 b,c and d. Specifically 8.3(d) says:

"(d) He is selected to represent the Under 20s National Representative Team of a Union which has been pre-designated as that Unionâ€™s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the Player is part of the team which participates in an International Match as part of the World Rugby Junior World Championships, World Rugby Junior World Rugby Trophy or the Six Nations U20 Championship and is present at the Match played by that Team either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of that Team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority"

So no matter what, the player won't be eligible anywhere else.

- - - Updated - - -

The document in question was last updated 1 January 2016, so it is quite possible it has been updated since the Shingler incident.
Here is the pdf if anyone is interested:
http://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resour...glish/pubData/source/files/Regulation_208.pdf

AIUI 8.3 is not an "or" situation, its an "and" situation. 8.3 (a) still applies even at the U20 tournament, otherwise you would have the anomalous situation of eligibility being captured for players in one team, but not for those in the team they are playing.

- - - Updated - - -

saulan said:
You didn't look at 8.3 b,c and d. Specifically 8.3(d) says:

"(d) He is selected to represent the Under 20s National Representative Team of a Union which has been pre-designated as that Unionâ€™s next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the Player is part of the team which participates in an International Match as part of the World Rugby Junior World Championships, World Rugby Junior World Rugby Trophy or the Six Nations U20 Championship and is present at the Match played by that Team either as a replacement, substitute or playing member of that Team and has, at the time of the Match, reached the age of majority"

So no matter what, the player won't be eligible anywhere else.

- - - Updated - - -

The document in question was last updated 1 January 2016, so it is quite possible it has been updated since the Shingler incident.
Here is the pdf if anyone is interested:
http://www.worldrugby.org/wr-resour...glish/pubData/source/files/Regulation_208.pdf

Ooh, hang on. This is different from my copy of the regs. I take it all back.

NZRU should do this to stop our players from being ripped off by other countries.

saulan · Apr 11, 2016

smartcooky said:
AIUI 8.3 is not an "or" situation, its an "and" situation. 8.3 (a) still applies even at the U20 tournament, otherwise you would have the anomalous situation of eligibility being captured for players in one team, but not for those in the team they are playing.

See I'm not sure of that because of the wording used in the document. If it is an "and" situation, why is there the need to repeat the "against the senior fifteen-a-side national representative team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union" in both 8.3(a) and 8.3(c). Also at the end of each point (a,b,c it says the word or. So it is an or situation and not an and situation.

smartcooky · Apr 11, 2016

saulan said:
See I'm not sure of that because of the wording used in the document. If it is an "and" situation, why is there the need to repeat the "against the senior fifteen-a-side national representative team or the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team of another Union" in both 8.3(a) and 8.3(c). Also at the end of each point (a,b,c it says the word or. So it is an or situation and not an and situation.

You missed the update to my last post

Ragey Erasmus · Apr 12, 2016

On a slightly unrelated note, what is the racial makeup of the SA youth teams? With SA quotas and the possibility of the quota being moved towards larger black representation, are there enough good black players coming through youth level to make it viable?

SARU attempts to keep junior stars in SA

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