[RWC2023 QF3] England vs Fiji (15/10/2023)

[bushytop]

Whilst I love you sticking up for our players Steward is vastly over rated, this comes across as if Freddie is rock solid which he hasn't been at all, Scotland exposed him as have a number of other teams, hell given his perceived aerial superiority he was pretty poor on our line when we conceded the cross field try again Samoa. If he was solid at the back but not much going forward I could accept that but for me he isn't.

Interesting… in all honesty I've always been impressed by him but that doesn't mean he hasn't made some errors (just that I've missed them I guess). Nobody is perfect (apart from Eales) but everytime I've seen Steward for England, I've been envious.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

As mentioned earlier, I feel the problems in England run so deep that changing players will not fix it. Ultimately I don't think there is any team we could put out that would perform because pretty much everyone is performing worse than we believe they should on paper.

 

[ageingback23]

And whats the logic for starting Dan Cole against Fiji?

Well, you've got to have some good looks on the field

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

SB selected cole and Billy. He's proven right there that's he's going to be a **** poor coach. I was willing to give him the benefit of doubt but he's selections are all the shop, his tactics are clueless and his chopping and changing is pointless.

I think he's so out of his depth it's shocking.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Happy your happy… just from an outside perspective I'd kill for Wales to have a Freddy Steward. Play-off rugby is more about the percentages than any other sport in my mind… and I think Smith 'might' be okay for a quarter-final against Fiji (no disrespect) but if you get through and Smith goes at XV against France/South Africa, I'd expect him to get exposed.

Completely agree. Which is what makes decisions like this at best a waste of time if you can't deploy it in a game against a bigger side (and if you do, you're cooked)

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Not loving some of those fiji selections
Edit: turns out teti tela is injured. So no first five available.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Steward's been a classic case of young english talent making a positive start and typical English sportfans
Overhype a player till the point where they go over the top on the criticism of him because they don't play to the high standards
But it's also him that gets the focus rather than the back 3 as a whole

Since Borthwick has come in we have had
May
OHC
Arundell
Cokanasiga
Marchant
Daly
Malins
Watson

 

[HamJan]

Didn't Gatland lose every game coaching his super rugby club when he left wales?

Sshhhhhh some people don't like to be reminded of that.

 

[bushytop]

Sshhhhhh some people don't like to be reminded of that.

we're all aware of Mr Gatland's difficulties reintegrating with his countrymen… just made him more ours

 

[Reiser99]

What did you want to see instead? Cole being on the pitch is a head scratcher for sure, but the pack seems about as good as one could hope. In terms of backs we always new Farrel and we going to start, but at least Smith is on the pitch, and he could work some magic with Daly who I think is a decent player with plenty of skill set. Manus been solid enough thus far, Marchants looked good, people seem to be on Mitchell's case, but I don't think he's been that bad, and Cares on the bench if things start to go really wrong. Arundel was never getting on the pitch, Malins is slow, stepless, and uninspiring, Watson injured, Steward ain't no wing, so it has to be May and Daly. Of course we all believe Ford should be in at 10, but that wasn't going to happen either.

I said it's about what I expected which is what your post sums up. I don't think Farrell should be starting. Billy is a big disappointment off the bench. The wings lack any real flair and Smith at 15 just feels like Borthwick has run out of ideas and has just gone '**** it'. Hopefully this team will prove me completely wrong, but I'm still not expecting to enjoy the performance.

 

[Geordie]

I get the side...from the squad we have.

Fiji don't kick so Stweard isn't required and everyone was calling for him to be dropped anyway..(SB can't win)

Let just hope Fiji don't decide to drop bomb after bomb on Smith and launch multiple 2 legged missiles at him...

If they get through they will change the team for the next opponents..but I think that's as far as they could go.aint going to trouble the big 4.

 

[BPM]

We seem to have mostly focused on the risks of playing Smith at 15. For this game, I think it's potentially more about the potential rewards he will bring.

It suggests to me that our mindset is to play and impose ourselves on Fiji. If that's the case, I applaud the sentiment.

While I'm no fan of Farrell, he's most definitely better at 10 than he is at 12 and he's accustomed to playing with a second playmaker at 15. It actually looked quite decent against Chile and whilst Fiji are a huge step up, it looked as though it was a lot more comfortable playmaking partnership than it ever was with Smith at 10 and Farrell at 12. I have at least some hope that it will work.

From a defensive POV, Smith could be exposed, but I'm a lot more worried about Fiji ball-in-hand than I am about their kicking prowess. If they overdo it on the kicking, I don't see it being to their benefit.

 

[dirty harry]

I get the side...from the squad we have.

Fiji don't kick so Stweard isn't required and everyone was calling for him to be dropped anyway..(SB can't win)

Let just hope Fiji don't decide to drop bomb after bomb on Smith and launch multiple 2 legged missiles at him...

If they get through they will change the team for the next opponents..but I think that's as far as they could go.aint going to trouble the big 4.

Fiji dont kick is the most niaive take I've seen on therlse boards.

In this world cup Fiji have kicked a LOT! The game they kicked least was Portugal.

I personally think Smith is about to be peppered!!!

 

[dirty harry]

We seem to have mostly focused on the risks of playing Smith at 15. For this game, I think it's potentially more about the potential rewards he will bring.

It suggests to me that our mindset is to play and impose ourselves on Fiji. If that's the case, I applaud the sentiment.

While I'm no fan of Farrell, he's most definitely better at 10 than he is at 12 and he's accustomed to playing with a second playmaker at 15. It actually looked quite decent against Chile and whilst Fiji are a huge step up, it looked as though it was a lot more comfortable playmaking partnership than it ever was with Smith at 10 and Farrell at 12. I have at least some hope that it will work.

From a defensive POV, Smith could be exposed, but I'm a lot more worried about Fiji ball-in-hand than I am about their kicking prowess. If they overdo it on the kicking, I don't see it being to their benefit.

They kicked a huge amount against Wales and aus, and the outcome was that their forwards especially ended the game stronger.

A lot of fans on here seem to have not watched Fiji, they dont have a crack from their own 22 anymore, they kick in midfield, they tighten up in the opposition 22.

 

[BPM]

Fiji dont kick is the most niaive take I've seen on therlse boards.

In this world cup Fiji have kicked a LOT! The game they kicked least was Portugal.

I personally think Smith is about to be peppered!!!

My take is that their kicking is underrated. However, as I said in my last post, I fear Fiji's running game more than their kicking. If Smith is 'peppered', I'm not sure it would be their best strategy for beating us. As much as I don't enjoy our kick heavy gameplan, we're simply better at that kind of game than Fiji are. Conversely, if it's a loose game, they're far superior.

 

[dirty harry]

My take is that their kicking is underrated. However, as I said in my last post, I fear Fiji's running game more than their kicking. If Smith is 'peppered', I'm not sure it would be their best strategy for beating us. As much as I don't enjoy our kick heavy gameplan, we're simply better at that kind of game than Fiji are. Conversely, if it's a loose game, they're far superior.

I'd put Englands kicking game on par with Wales currently, and do you know what it garnered?

The first time I've ever seen a 6N team play Fiji and Fiji look the stronger team last 10 minutes. This is down to Fijis kicking game.

Firij are not scoring worldies every time now, that's just a cherry they can add. Most of their tries are low risk taking advantage of territory when given to them. They're pack has scored more tries at the RWC than any previous.

They are no longer Fiji in their own half, because they refuse to play in their own half. They kick in midfield now, let me repeat... they blwdi kick in midfield!!! They look to pressure the back 3 with kicks, and when they break (Radrada aside) they dont look for contact anymore.

The most impressive thing Fiji have managed to change, and I put this down to a top class coaching team, is they dont make mistakes and give easy field position away (except against Portugal when everything went wrong).

I just dont see enough reward for having Smith at 15, the risks are too high, every Fijian break will result in a try. We see him hidden in the backfield a lot, and theres a reason for it.


I hope I'm wrong, I'll be supporting the 4 European nations (less so France if I'm honest), but I think this is SB under pressure to play prettier.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'd put Englands kicking game on par with Wales currently, and do you know what it garnered?

The first time I've ever seen a 6N team play Fiji and Fiji look the stronger team last 10 minutes. This is down to Fijis kicking game.

Firij are not scoring worldies every time now, that's just a cherry they can add. Most of their tries are low risk taking advantage of territory when given to them. They're pack has scored more tries at the RWC than any previous.

They are no longer Fiji in their own half, because they refuse to play in their own half. They kick in midfield now, let me repeat... they blwdi kick in midfield!!! They look to pressure the back 3 with kicks, and when they break (Radrada aside) they dont look for contact anymore.

The most impressive thing Fiji have managed to change, and I put this down to a top class coaching team, is they dont make mistakes and give easy field position away (except against Portugal when everything went wrong).

I just dont see enough reward for having Smith at 15, the risks are too high, every Fijian break will result in a try. We see him hidden in the backfield a lot, and theres a reason for it.


I hope I'm wrong, I'll be supporting the 4 European nations (less so France if I'm honest), but I think this is SB under pressure to play prettier.

Steward isn't great in defence though. He's often stepped or wrong footed and he's got less pace than most of our pack. Smiths tackling is also superior to steward who for a big lad hits like a big girls blouse.

Steward just isn't a top international player. He's bang average and yes he's young and will improve but I doubt he'll get better at things he needs to. The squad has too many average players and needs to shed them all.

 

[ageingback23]

Fiji dont kick is the most niaive take I've seen on therlse boards.

In this world cup Fiji have kicked a LOT! The game they kicked least was Portugal.

I personally think Smith is about to be peppered!!!

I think to clarify, Fiji dont kick well. It's just never been part of their game. They have kicked a lot more this RWC but I don't think it's benefitted then. By putting Smith at fullback we are essentially daring them to kick, taking them away from their much stronger running, which I think BPM mentions above, is the much greater threat, and likely to be the best way they have to beat England. We shall see tomorrow what actually occurs.

 

[Geordie]

Fiji dont kick is the most niaive take I've seen on therlse boards.

In this world cup Fiji have kicked a LOT! The game they kicked least was Portugal.

I personally think Smith is about to be peppered!!!

No im not naive, but ok let me correct that...they aren't the best kickers and will run the majority when they can!

 

[dirty harry]

Steward isn't great in defence though. He's often stepped or wrong footed and he's got less pace than most of our pack. Smiths tackling is also superior to steward who for a big lad hits like a big girls blouse.

Steward just isn't a top international player. He's bang average and yes he's young and will improve but I doubt he'll get better at things he needs to. The squad has too many average players and needs to shed them all.

I'm sorry, I just cant agree that Steward is a weaker defender than speedbump. Infact I do Smith a great favour calling him speedbump, that suggests he gets in the way, but in reality he rarely lays a finger on attackers.

Steward is young, and in an unenviable position of being a lone specialist, in a bang average team. Hes been axed because England arent creating much, and SB needs a ball player but is under pressure not to play Ford Farrell again, he is also under pressure from this poor English defensive system.

Stewards ability in the air is world class at 22, his agility and pace isnt granted, but the best full backs negate their weaknesses with positioning, and steward is great at that too.

I just dont see in any world where Smith offers anywhere near the ability at 15 it requires to win a RWC quarter

England may well get away with it, as Fiji have deteriorated throughout the tournament, they look like Wales and Aus first up bust them. But even if they do get away with it, Smith is not a long term option at FB, how will this help anyone?