[RWC2023] New Zealand vs Italy (29/09/2023)

[TW27BA]

I'm expecting a big NZ performance after the disappointment of losing to France. A good 20+pt win.
Italy have improved immensely over the past couple of years, but they are no threat to the AB's.

 

[SteveAustin794582]

Points are one thing, but I'll be counting penalties.

I want less than three in each half from NZ, otherwise they're not ready for Ireland.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I feel kiwis cant win sometimes, if we'd come in here saying a win was locked in and bring on the QF's then we would have been tagged the arrogant AB's fans and have Japans upset wins at world cups thrown at us....we try and be honest and say not only can anything happen at a RWC but this is a sub par AB's squad that is low on confidence....so we're cautious....and get told we're dreaming

to be clear, i dont think its likely...but possible and maybe more possible than ever before given the current situation

Cane's not the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I do feel a bit sorry for him. A good career, the majority of which has basically been spent taking a kicking for the heinous crime of not being McCaw.

ABs to win at a reasonable canter and be largely back in the mix.

personally i don't feel thats it, not all of it anyway, since being made captain he's spent just as much time on the sideline injured as playing...hell, he was injured when he was announced as the new captain and missed his first few games...he also hasn't always been the best 7 in the country quite often...and yet gets picked ahead of others whenever he is fit stinting anyone elses development...and finally because they are so determined to have him as captain....then he has to play at 7....which pushes savea to 8 (when he would be better at 7)...which throws out our whole loosie balance...

..there is an argument that sticking with cane....has lead to a lot of the other issues in the AB's, i would hazard a guess he hasn't managed more the 3-4 games in a row for the AB in the last several years

 

[Which Tyler]

Bringing this post across from a kiwi elsewhere, to see what you guys of the perspective - not one I'd even considered before.

I don't think anyone is ******** themselves, just recognising that a win is not the inevitability it used to be. NZ fans also used to have a simple 2 category system to work with: we might lose to the Boks, Aussie, England every so often, and France. Everyone else was in the "we always win" category - we didn't need to worry about the relative strengths of, say, Fiji v Argentina v Italy. There was no "banana-skin" concept. They were all in the same category. Losses to Ireland and especially Argentina have blown that simple world view up. So the All Blacks supporter subconscious says "if the Pumas can beat us, why not Italy - they are the same category of opponent." We are just learning to see in shades of nuanced grey rather than black and white as to who is actually a threat.

I'm glad Jordie is playing. He got 4 tries in his last (only?) test v Italy.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

personally i don't feel thats it, not all of it anyway, since being made captain he's spent just as much time on the sideline injured as playing...hell, he was injured when he was announced as the new captain and missed his first few games...he also hasn't always been the best 7 in the country quite often...and yet gets picked ahead of others whenever he is fit stinting anyone elses development...and finally because they are so determined to have him as captain....then he has to play at 7....which pushes savea to 8 (when he would be better at 7)...which throws out our whole loosie balance...

..there is an argument that sticking with cane....has lead to a lot of the other issues in the AB's, i would hazard a guess he hasn't managed more the 3-4 games in a row for the AB in the last several years

Foster had groomed him to be McCaw's heir as captain like a pet project. So it is a sad reflection of his reign and choice.

Also goes to show what an unbelievable career McCaw had including dragging himself through the 2011 RWC final with a broken foot

 

[Brigantine]

I don't think anyone is ******** themselves, just recognising that a win is not the inevitability it used to be. NZ fans also used to have a simple 2 category system to work with: we might lose to the Boks, Aussie, England every so often, and France. Everyone else was in the "we always win" category - we didn't need to worry about the relative strengths of, say, Fiji v Argentina v Italy. There was no "banana-skin" concept. They were all in the same category. Losses to Ireland and especially Argentina have blown that simple world view up. So the All Blacks supporter subconscious says "if the Pumas can beat us, why not Italy - they are the same category of opponent." We are just learning to see in shades of nuanced grey rather than black and white as to who is actually a threat.

There's some truth to that, but also: This is what kiwi's call a banana skin.

I guess it's fair to say we still put Wales, Scotland and Italy in the same category. We also put Fiji, Samoa and Tonga all together even though there are big gaps between them now. All the rest are Tier 3 curiosities I guess

As for Argentina and Ireland... not quite the same. There were near misses before there were losses, we could see the golden age slowly coming to an end and penalties start to plague us before the golden age was actually over.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Foster had groomed him to be McCaw's heir as captain like a pet project. So it is a sad reflection of his reign and choice.

Also goes to show what an unbelievable career McCaw had including dragging himself through the 2011 RWC final with a broken foot

i know coaches will always have fav players...but fozzie seems to take it too far, its painfully blatant, some players can not get dropped unless injured and even if injured and someone performs equally well in their absence...they come straight back in... taylor/coles at hooker, BB at 15, clarke at 11 until recently...his favs will get endless chances to play themselves into form...and as soon as they have half a good game...theyre the second coming...frizell for example, even forgetting hes a shitbag off the field...he's had average to poor games for the last 3-4 years....1.5 great games in the RC and our wole forward pack if hanging off him coming back

I honestly feel hes actually ruining the reputation of several players by playing them so much when theyre not in form.....hes just praying that BB will play like he last did 5 years ago

how credible ago can Cane truly be in the changing room when everyone knows he's play less than half as many games as they have in the last few years and hes often not even the best 7 in the starting 15...its right back to the days of Blackadder and Thorne picked Captains when at best they arguably didn't deserve to make the 23

and on Mccaw...also the nicest bloke your going to meet, had the pleasure of going to highschool with him

 

[dirty harry]

I have a tenner on Italy for the win, I couldnt say no to odds like that lol.

NZ used to be able to cruise through group stages in 2nd gear, and arguably were undercooked in the knockouts. They managed to sole that problem, however 4 years ago looked emotionally exhausted when facing England. It seemed to me the massive SA result and then blowouts followed by disruption made the quarter final extra nervy v Ireland and they played their final there.

I think they have the same issue, that France loss must have hurt bad, seeing how far apart the teams are, and now they HAVE to perform high level to Italy to recover. This is going to have ramifications come an Ireland quarter final, which both teams will play like it's a final.

As a selfish, and deluded Wales fan I want NZ to overcome the mountain that is Ireland, battered bruised and absolutely shattered only to be the ghost of themselves in the semi.

Again on a selfish note, its nice to see NZ having human troubles, feeling the pressure like the rest of us, confidence but also trepidation in a potential disaster.

As mentioned, Foz is racking up an impressive firsts list, losing to Italy AND going out in the group stage surely cant be more to add...

Surely?!

 

[TopTen2003]

Looking forward to this, really looking for Italy to make this ferocious and difficult for the ABs but can't help think that the ABs will be right up for this and step up to a gear beyond where Italy can go right now.

Great Friday night match with a fair bit riding on it though!

 

[IT157]

New Zealand v Italy: Other nations have caught up with All Blacks, says Azzurri boss Kieran Crowley

Italy head coach Kieran Crowley believes other countries "have caught up" with New Zealand as his side prepare to face the All Blacks on Friday.

www.bbc.com

Crowley just jinxed Italy and the All Blacks will put over 50 points on them.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Not the smartest thing he's ever said.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Why? He's their best back.

i am just really underwhelmed by what I have seen from Garbisi in the past couple of months to the extent I'd put Allan ahead of him (and not just because he used to be my avatar). In fairness Garbisi hasn't had Capuozzo at 15 for a lot of those games but he is playing like he has had another injury (I don't think he has) and Allan is doing most of the kicking duties (and Allan isn't exactly an exceptional kicker).

The main issue is sticking Capuozzo on the wing. Is Bruno rated that badly you'd neuter by far your biggest attacking threat just to avoid putting Bruno or Odogwu on the wing? I do not understand why Crowley is moving so far away from what worked at the 6N, just because he lost Padovani.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Not the smartest thing he's ever said.

I know, a couple of sides can barely see them in their rear view mirror, never mind 'caught up'.

In fairness to Crowley, earlier this year he said he wouldn't mind Italy being relegated from the 6N, so he likes to throw things out there. I wonder if he has a wicked sense of humour?

 

[miccloarch]

even just plugging the corners is enough to cause us problems, it use to be the case where you didnt want to kick to the AB because they'd strike back straight away...these guys will do a crossfield kick or bomb in their own 22 if they dont break the line within 3-4 phases, a deep kick and 4 good tackles and Italy could be getting the ball back in good position....its sad how basic unlocking this team might be

NH has taken rugby back to the dark ages and the ABs have allowed it to happen.

 

[miccloarch]

however 4 years ago looked emotionally exhausted when facing England. It seemed to me the massive SA result and then blowouts followed by disruption made the quarter final extra nervy v Ireland and they played their final there.

Maybe a bit of that but it was mostly Hansen being outcoached by Eddie Jones. Hansen was good, but also a dinosaur. Couldn't adapt fast enough to the changes in the game while maintaining the AB identity. Very hard to do granted, but I know of a guy who'll be giving it a good go from next year.

 

[Gavin]

Italy to win by 3, New Zealand to go out at the pool stage

 

[miccloarch]

2 possible outcomes for this match will be hilarious.

If Italy beat NZ, it's another historic day for rugby and more records for one of the worst AB coaches of all time. If NZ win and then beat Ireland in the QF, well, some things never change for the Irish.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

2 possible outcomes for this match will be hilarious.

If Italy beat NZ, it's another historic day for rugby and more records for one of the worst AB coaches of all time. If NZ win and then beat Ireland in the QF, well, some things never change for the Irish.

One of those is a 1 in 100 shot, it would have to be a weird game for Italy to win tonight to say the least.

The other is more of a 4 in 10 shot I reckon. Although it is funny that the narrative has completely switched in 4 years ago, back then we were hoping for a big performance that just didn't track with our warm up and world cup form to beat a strong and settled NZ side that confirmed themselves as favourites beating SA in the pools.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

If we do win this, I'm hoping taukeiaho is back for the Ireland game

 

[Duct Tape]

New Zealand v Italy: Other nations have caught up with All Blacks, says Azzurri boss Kieran Crowley

Italy head coach Kieran Crowley believes other countries "have caught up" with New Zealand as his side prepare to face the All Blacks on Friday.

www.bbc.com

Crowley just jinxed Italy and the All Blacks will put over 50 points on them.

Currently getting posted in All Black locker room……. Whoops.