[RWC2023] France vs New Zealand (08/09/2023)

[Umaga's Witness]

welcome to the last 6 years of being an AB fan

....he is ******* poor though, playing a lock at 6....putting a less than 100% BBBR on the bench...when you have Jacobson in the squad...suggests you have f'd up your squad selection, keeping with an attack from anywhere gameplan, build no more than 4-5 phases before kicking, bomb in your own 22 like we have the 15 best players in the world....is just mad after 6 years of seeing it doesnt work, playing BB and RM together when we have SO MANY game that prove it doesnt work

definitely a bit of both, i personally dont think it can be argued that this squad would get smoked by the 2015 squad....but lots of other teams have definitely improved noticeably, long gone are the days we could play poorly and still win


always has been, his highlight reel is full of footage with him wearing 22 running holes through guys that have already played 60min, puts in very few 80min games and doesnt know how to graft, flat track bully, one day the rest of the world we realise Savea is the same

thats half a dozen games of good form in the last 4 years...that was a blip, not a sign of where we really are

This is a list of the "firsts" over the last 4 years

First to lose to Ireland in NZ.
First to lose a series to Ireland.
First 3 test series loss in professional era.
Worst halftime deficit ever.
First to lose to Argentina, and at home
Highest score against us
Biggest losing margin x2
Lowest world ranking
Worst win rate in Pro era
First ever consecutive 14 point+ losses
First loss in RWC pool play
Worst ever RWC loss
Biggest margin of defeats and highest scores conceded against Argentina, Ireland, Australia, South Africa, and France
Only ever time lost 3 consecutive home tests

I don't really have the energy to debate whether or why foster is a good coach. The point of my post was to see if the poster bagging foster was just another uniformed foster bagger or not.

I'm not arguing foster is a good coach, there is very little evidence to support that. But, put simply, one can't use a comparison of his record compared to other all blacks coaches records as evidence of his coaching ability when head coaching isn't the only thing that determines how well the all blacks do. So, if one wants to make the argument that he is crap one needs good reasons as to why. And if someone doesn't acknowledge that our players aren't as good as they were, that other players in other countries are now better, and so is their coaching, then their opinion that its all fosters fault better come with some pretty strong analysis.

Having read thousands of comments about foster being crap I can say that good and coherent arguments are very rare. Almost no New Zealanders understand that rugby has improved in the rest of the world for instance. People are starting to a bit now, but they didn't while they were all circling around foster last year watching and cheering on other members of their pack/mob who were kicking the **** out of him. It's just gross. The robertson obsession is gross too. And the robertson obsessed are always the most irrational in their views of foster.

The irony is that all the pressure caused by the haters has had a negative impact on the players, like a self fulfilling prophecy.

I've got my reasons why foster isn't great, but unlike most other peoples my reasons are put into perspective, Don't involve self contradictions, aren't overly passionate and arrogant given my level of understanding of rugby around the world, and don't involve illogical rationale.

Plus, I support the all blacks, so will support whichever coaches and players are selected.

We've gone progressively backwards since 2015. But the 2015 team was great, lots of people even think they were the best ever. So let's celebrate that they were great, rather than bagging foster.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Having read thousands of comments about foster being crap I can say that good and coherent arguments are very rare.

were my points not coherent?

• poor squad selection, too many wings not enough locks or loosies most recently
• does not have faith in the people he does pick, will play others out of position rather than play some people
• persists with game plans proven to not be effective
• sticks with combinations proven to not work
• some players are undroppable to the detriment of the development of any depth
• doesnt seem to be able to make changes on the fly, we often see people playing well getting pulled when others are left on, most recently jordan (and im a big jordan fan) and telea, suggests he makes these decisions before the game, i imagine to manage workload, and stick too them regardless

...thats just off the top of my head

 

[Umaga's Witness]

were my points not coherent?

• poor squad selection, too many wings not enough locks or loosies most recently
• does not have faith in the people he does pick, will play others out of position rather than play some people
• persists with game plans proven to not be effective
• sticks with combinations proven to not work
• some players are undroppable to the detriment of the development of any depth
• doesnt seem to be able to make changes on the fly, we often see people playing well getting pulled when others are left on, most recently jordan (and im a big jordan fan) and telea, suggests he makes these decisions before the game, i imagine to manage workload, and stick too them regardless

...thats just off the top of my head

Wasn't taking about your posts sorry

 

[miccloarch]

they were all circling around foster last year watching and cheering on other members of their pack/mob who were kicking the **** out of him.

This hyperbole is fantastic. Brilliant imagery.

We've gone progressively backwards since 2015. But the 2015 team was great, lots of people even think they were the best ever. So let's celebrate that they were great, rather than bagging foster.

No you're right. AB fans should just sit quietly by and watch their team deteriorate while celebrating the good old days. Head coach is beyond reproach.

Plus, I support the all blacks, so will support whichever coaches and players are selected.

How far do you want to take that? Supporting the All Blacks means wanting the best for them. Foster as head coach is clearly, clearly not the best for them.

People are miffed and rightly so. And yeah, there are so many other factors as well, starting from the top: NZR is clueless; players leaving for Europe; Rest of the world improved markedly; NZ rugby is stuck in the past with "structures" and "protocols" that don't work (case in point: automatically hire the assistant of the previous head coach because it worked with Henry/Hanson); players maybe not quite as good as previously hyped to be (this could now apply to France, Ireland and SA as well, winners get hyped, that's how it works); etc. ad nauseam.

Here's the thing: if we weren't losing, most of this wouldn't be talked about. The main narrative would be: ABs keep winning despite talent exodus. How do you do that? Well, you can start by hiring the best head coach available. We all know who it is, it's no obsession, it's just a fairly obvious choice that was made three and a bit years too late. Instead, in 2019 they made the worst possible choice and then repeated it in 2021 when they still had the chance to save this World Cup cycle.

Having read thousands of comments about foster being crap I can say that good and coherent arguments are very rare.

Bad arguments against Foster don't make him a good coach. Mate, if all you wanted to say is that you know more about rugby than the average casual, then congrats.