[RWC2023] England vs Samoa (07/10/2023)

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

But he almost never brings that club form to England and is still selected regardless. I genuinely can't recall the last time Farrell had an unequivocally excellent game for England. Certainly not to the point that his inevitable selection is warranted.

No one else including Ford has ever really been given that level of backing at 10 whilst Farrell has been on the scene. At least not without him standing outside them.

Do any England games in the last 4 years standout where you think one player had a great individual performance?.I personally cant think of many.

 

[ageingback23]

Again, you miss the point. I'm not saying top teams don't kick. But they kick with purpose. Yes it might not always work,but they try when it's the right option or when they have advantage etc...

England don't. England kick when the defence has cover. They send wishful spiral bombs into the 22. They kick when they have overlaps and they've been doing it for 4 years. The issue isn't kicking, it's that England are so bad at it and aren't improving.

Not missing the point at all. As I recall, in your first post you stated that top teams don't kick outside their own 10 yard line, which simply isn't true. I agree that Englands kicking is often without purpose, and not anywhere near that tactical enough. So I think we agree on the central issue.

 

[ageingback23]

Do any England games in the last 4 years standout where you think one player had a great individual performance?.I personally cant think of many.

Earls, in every start he's had so far?

 

[Reiser99]

I think we do agree on the central issue. I didn't say top teams don't kick it, I said they don't do random punts in the air. I think England kick too much along the ground when they have overlaps, but at least it makes sense. It's when England are around d the 10 metre line or even past it and then just stick high up in the air without any kind of advantage that I think is ridiculous and stupid. Top teams don't just stick in the air from that position. They might kick along the floor or cross field, not just punt it in the air and hope the opposition makes a mistake.

 

[BrokenWing]

And is Farrell not one of the reasons for that success/consistency

He's not the be all and end of of the success.

He's a part of a team that suits his skillset.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think England's style of play is that of Saracens.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Earls, in every start he's had so far?

One player…that makes 14 others plus subs who haven't stood out and the narrative seems to be that Owen Farrell is the only one not putting in a performance

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

He's not the be all and end of of the success.

He's a part of a team that suits his skillset.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think England's style of play is that of Saracens.

And what is Englands style of play?

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

He's not the be all and end of of the success.

He's a part of a team that suits his skillset.

I'm not an expert, but I don't think England's style of play is that of Saracens.

Exactly he's not the be all and end all,the same as he's not the be all and end all of Englands perceived failings.so why drop a player who deserves on his club form to be selected for England.After all isn't club form where players put themselves forward for England selection

 

[TRF_Olyy]

And what is Englands style of play?

 

[BPM]

Do any England games in the last 4 years standout where you think one player had a great individual performance?.I personally cant think of many.

Neither can I but I can definitely think there are several where Farrell has been individually rank bad.

My issue is that if Farrell is fit, he always plays. With the exception of Itoje, no other England player has the same level of invulnerability from a selection POV. It's plainly not deserved. I blame the selectors here, not Farrell himself.

 

[Saintjay]

And what is Englands style of play?

A poor mans Leicester or SA take your pick.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Neither can I but I can definitely think there are several where Farrell has been individually rank bad.

My issue is that if Farrell is fit, he always plays. With the exception of Itoje, no other England player has the same level of invulnerability from a selection POV. It's plainly not deserved. I blame the selectors here, not Farrell himself.

Which performances do you consider where individually "rank bad"?

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

A poor mans Leicester or SA take your pick.

SA the current world champions..seems that style may work

 

[BrokenWing]

Exactly he's not the be all and end all,the same as he's not the be all and end all of Englands perceived failings.so why drop a player who deserves on his club form to be selected for England.After all isn't club form where players put themselves forward for England selection

Because club form doesn't reflect performance in a different system?

Like, for example, picking a binliner full of dripping over a Top 14 player of the year.

Personally, I couldn't give a **** if he's picked or not. What bothers me more is that when he stinks up the place, someone else carries the can. He's picked at 10, stinks up the place, but instead of getting the hook, gets shunted to 12 where he's even stinkier and the incumbent 12 then gets taken off.

 

[Jimbo]

My main concern with Faz is that tackle technique, I can see it being judged with zero tolerance, England can Ill afford not to keep 15 on the pitch, that's before talking tactics and who bring what individually.

 

[Saintjay]

SA the current world champions..seems that style may work

Yes and when i play in my head I'm a combination of Back, McCaw and Jacques Burger.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

Personally, I couldn't give a **** if he's picked or not. What bothers me more is that when he stinks up the place, someone else carries the can. He's picked at 10, stinks up the place, but instead of getting the hook, gets shunted to 12 where he's even stinkier and the incumbent 12 then gets taken of

Personally, I couldn't give a **** if he's picked or not. What bothers me more is that when he stinks up the place, someone else carries the can. He's picked at 10, stinks up the place, but instead of getting the hook, gets shunted to 12 where he's even stinkier and the incumbent 12 then gets taken off.

My main concern with Faz is that tackle technique, I can see it being judged with zero tolerance, England can Ill afford not to keep 15 on the pitch, that's before talking tactics and who bring what individually.

I think Farrell has played maybe 400 professional games(my maths isn't too good) and he's been sent off if I'm correct with this 5 or 6 times at club and international level(I may be wrong).That means on average he gets sent off maybe once every two seasons(again my maths isn't great) and although that's high for a fly half I think part of his positives is his defensive work.I think Kevin sinfield said he found it refreshing to see a fly half help his forwards out so much in defence.I agree he's an aggressive player(aggression doesn't mean dirty) and he flys close to the sun at times but the game has changed so much recently that we see other players experiencing the same problems with sending offs.Defense wins games especially at international level and aggression and winning the collision is part of that.How many times has Farrell been sent off at international level?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think Farrell has played maybe 400 professional games(my maths isn't too good) and he's been sent off if I'm correct with this 5 or 6 times at club and international level(I may be wrong).That means on average he gets sent off maybe once every two seasons(again my maths isn't great) and although that's high for a fly half I think part of his positives is his defensive work.I think Kevin sinfield said he found it refreshing to see a fly half help his forwards out so much in defence.I agree he's an aggressive player(aggression doesn't mean dirty) and he flys close to the sun at times but the game has changed so much recently that we see other players experiencing the same problems with sending offs.Defense wins games especially at international level and aggression and winning the collision is part of that.How many times has Farrell been sent off at international level?

And yet every year at international level he has been involved in a high hit or shoulder charge, frequently more than once, he's just been very lucky to have not been punished more for it. Farrell is not standing out as a great 10 or a talismanic must-play player and yet he is treated like he is. The likes of McCaw, Carter, Sexton, Wilkinson and a host of other players were must plays because they were constantly going out and putting in great performances over and over. Farrell goes out and frequently produces absolute dogshit yet someone else always takes the fall. When has Farrell been dropped that isn't due to injury, suspension or the game being a meaningless one against a minnow? It never happens and yet he simply isn't good enough to merit it. Every other player in the team, excluding Itoje, has been swapped out without that decision being forced. Even Youngs has.

It's not so much that Farrell is awful, it's that his treatment within the team and his "reputation" are too far detached from reality. He is called the "Iceman" and yet frequently loses his cool and has had periods where his kicking % has been absolutely awful. I remember Ford missed some kicks and it was held against him for ages, Farrell missed 4 or 5 in a game, ah well that's just an off day. There was a 6N one year where I think Farrell has THE worst kicking % of any of the designated kickers in the tournament. Ford had a bad club game where he was targeted by Hughes and got steamrollered? Ah well Ford is useless in defence. Farrell high tackles, leavings gaping holes, misses tackles? All fine. The main gripe is the complete double standard surrounding Farrell, his treatment is completely independent of how he performs, that is the main problem. He is the perfect example of a coaches favourite.

 

[whocaresaboutthetruth]

And yet every year at international level he has been involved in a high hit or shoulder charge, frequently more than once, he's just been very lucky to have not been punished more for it. Farrell is not standing out as a great 10 or a talismanic must-play player and yet he is treated like he is. The likes of McCaw, Carter, Sexton, Wilkinson and a host of other players were must plays because they were constantly going out and putting in great performances over and over. Farrell goes out and frequently produces absolute dogshit yet someone else always takes the fall. When has Farrell been dropped that isn't due to injury, suspension or the game being a meaningless one against a minnow? It never happens and yet he simply isn't good enough to merit it. Every other player in the team, excluding Itoje, has been swapped out without that decision being forced. Even Youngs has.

It's not so much that Farrell is awful, it's that his treatment within the team and his "reputation" are too far detached from reality. He is called the "Iceman" and yet frequently loses his cool and has had periods where his kicking % has been absolutely awful. I remember Ford missed some kicks and it was held against him for ages, Farrell missed 4 or 5 in a game, ah well that's just an off day. There was a 6N one year where I think Farrell has THE worst kicking % of any of the designated kickers in the tournament. Ford had a bad club game where he was targeted by Hughes and got steamrollered? Ah well Ford is useless in defence. Farrell high tackles, leavings gaping holes, misses tackles? All fine. The main gripe is the complete double standard surrounding Farrell, his treatment is completely independent of how he performs, that is the main problem. He is the perfect example of a coaches

Do you honestly think all farrells coaches would put there job and families financial security on the line and have a "dogshit" 10 as you say just because they liked him…Give coaches more credit than that.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

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