[RWC2023] England vs Argentina (09/09/2023)

[Vieux Talonneur]

I dont think anyone believes that, it was a great performance and very nice to see consistant pressure applied not letting off for the full game. Not letting the man down hinder us and playing a very well excuted game plan.

But no the teams you've mentioned are much further along than we are. It wasnt papering over the cracks, it was a good performance but no one is saying out att is anything other than terrible or that our defence fixed.

Times saying this morning that we missed 23 tackles, making only 79% of those attempted.

Where the players deserve praise is for hunting the Argies down and bringing extra intensity. There may have been some extra fatigue having been down to 14, but those stats are still pretty alarming and a semi competent Arg should have won with ease.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Told you. Had to be some sort of landmark stat or something.

 

[Nudger]

I don't believe England changed tactics when they went down to 14.its literally sb's mo

 

[munstermuffin]

I dont think anyone believes that, it was a great performance and very nice to see consistant pressure applied not letting off for the full game. Not letting the man down hinder us and playing a very well excuted game plan.

But no the teams you've mentioned are much further along than we are. It wasnt papering over the cracks, it was a good performance but no one is saying out att is anything other than terrible or that our defence fixed.

Well 2 bits. Borthwick did say it is systems go and England were back.

Secondly are you honestly saying none of the 4 teams mentioned are further down road and that? So if England played Ire, NZ, SA or France this weekend you'd be confident and expect a win?

 

[munstermuffin]

No one is getting carried away.

The media are praising the team for a gritty, backs to the wall win in adversity and lauding Ford's performance. Rightly so IMO. However, the general consensus seems to be that one great result doesn't constitute a revival.

To @Zed's point. The biggest takeaway for me was the 'passion' and intensity we saw. That has been hugely lacking so we even if we're still a bit rubbish, I have a bit more faith that we'll rally on a mental level.

Don't get me wrong. It was an excellent display from England but still lacked creativity. Agree there was a massive improvement in terms of passion, aggression and controlled discipline.

But equally Argentina were awful so it is hard to gauge,

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Times saying this morning that we missed 23 tackles, making only 79% of those attempted.

Where the players deserve praise is for hunting the Argies down and bringing extra intensity. There may have been some extra fatigue having been down to 14, but those stats are still pretty alarming and a semi competent Arg should have won with ease.

I noticed in this game that there was a change in defensive style and they seemed to adopt the old sarries defence of fly off the line to apply pressure. That way they'd be loaded of missed tackle stats but in reality the player did their job by applying pressure. So I'm not bothered by this stay on this game.

I wonder if the change was just for this game or if England realised their structure wasn't working and went back to an older one which the players knew?

 

[Scotty]

Well 2 bits. Borthwick did say it is systems go and England were back.

Secondly are you honestly saying none of the 4 teams mentioned are further down road and that? So if England played Ire, NZ, SA or France this weekend you'd be confident and expect a win?

Maybe my last came across wrong, i meant the 4 you said are further down the road in development and i wouldnt expect to win. Theyd be heavy favourites. That doesnt mean we didnt play well or that we havnt improved but im not getting ahead of myself.

SB will say what ever to the media and to get fans onside, i cant really say i buy into alot a coach says really.

 

[munstermuffin]

Maybe my last came across wrong, i meant the 4 you said are further down the road in development and i wouldnt expect to win. Theyd be heavy favourites. That doesnt mean we didnt play well or that we havnt improved but im not getting ahead of myself.

SB will say what ever to the media and to get fans onside, i cant really say i buy into alot a coach says really.

Well that fair enough. Certainly England have progressed from warm ups and improved but still need to figure out attack game and bigger issue is I think they are still clueless on what best team is.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

At least with Kriel being cleared we know Curry will have his red card torn up seeing as his chest hit the Argentinian player's shoulder a microsecond before the head contact, and that's all that matters

 

[ncurd]

At least with Kriel being cleared we know Curry will have his red card torn up seeing as his chest hit the Argentinian player's shoulder a microsecond before the head contact, and that's all that matters

When the hearing for the 12 month ban?

 

[munstermuffin]

At least with Kriel being cleared we know Curry will have his red card torn up seeing as his chest hit the Argentinian player's shoulder a microsecond before the head contact, and that's all that matters

Genuine question but will the recent infringements count against him. As in I think the Kriel one is crazy that it wasn't even reviewed.
Curry incident I said at time the duration of match is sufficient enough

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genuine question but will the recent infringements count against him.

Supposedly you're not allowed to reference other decisions in your own hearing - you have to focus solely your case rather than "But A, B, C got X, Y, Z punishment"
Hopefully the other incidents are in the backs of the minds of the panel, though

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Supposedly you're not allowed to reference other decisions in your own hearing - you have to focus solely your case rather than "But A, B, C got X, Y, Z punishment"
Hopefully the other incidents are in the backs of the minds of the panel, though

"Well everyone, courts around the world and particularly amongst most rugby playing nations work like this, so we're going to run our administrative adjudication panel totally the opposite."

 

[munstermuffin]

Supposedly you're not allowed to reference other decisions in your own hearing - you have to focus solely your case rather than "But A, B, C got X, Y, Z punishment"
Hopefully the other incidents are in the backs of the minds of the panel, though

Yeah that part I always wondered. Like does the "this is constant in England camp the last 6 months" thinking possibly come in to it. And I'm not saying it constant in England camp just that is the picture at moment.

Was at an AIL game weekend (well preseason) and spoke with a ref who has done URC games and he was at a meeting with equivalent level refs from England and all were in agreement that the new tackle rule is bad in some sense. In the game there was 51 pens or so.
Now it was high as refs were told in preseason be very very direct on the tackle rule but it killed momentum for both teams massively. Now there was no awful tackle but borderline tackles were pulled.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

"Well everyone, courts around the world and particularly amongst most rugby playing nations work like this, so we're going to run our administrative adjudication panel totally the opposite."

The old farts can barely explain their own decisions, it'd be chaos if they had to take into account/explain others as well

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Curry gets six down to three down to two (if he goes to tackle school)

Obviously didn't offer the citing commission any biltong first

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Curry to miss 2 games whilst not a single other head contact is even deemed a red...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Curry to miss 2 games whilst not a single other head contact is even deemed a red...

The Chile one blows my mind, it's so similar to the Curry one but arguably worse as Currys contact was immediately as the attacker landed, whereas in the Chile game from what I remember he had way more time to adjust body position

I say what I remember because WR have nuked all clips on social media and YouTube and their official highlights don't have the incident in

 

[Becca]

Regardless of which team you support, this is really bad for the game.
It clearly shows that not all teams are being judged the same even with such similar, some might say identical, situations.

 

[Saintjay]

I can see this happening to a few teams / players. Maybe England will learn and it's out of the system. Recent games would suggest not.

At least TC got it out of the way early. Imagine what will happen if it is one of the big players in SA vs Ireland game 3. Two game ban no quater final. Melt down incoming........