[RWC2019][Semi-Final 1] England vs. New Zealand (26/10/2019)

[spartan32]

Not sure what the fuss about Owens is about? Yes he likes a chat, but in the modern game with so many complex laws that lives so fast, it's great to have ref who talks to the players and helps them through the game. I don't think he works for or against either team in this contest, and tends to ref the stuff on the ground well, often giving advantage to the attacking team. So England just need to make sure they are that they are that team. We can't stand off and defend against NZ anyway so shouldn't be an issue.

but regardless who refs should never be an issue. Refs don't win you games, playing well does, and that's what we need to focus on.

 

[Ferrari333SP]

 

[Cooper]

"So, how did the All Blacks beat the Boks".

By scoring more points than them?




On a serious note, nice analysis, I've seen this poster on r/rugbyunion they're often very good!

 

[Dai Perk]

On a serious note, nice analysis, I've seen this poster on r/rugbyunion they're often very good!

Agreed, Squidge is pretty great!

Question for you Kiwi fans ... how many times have three Barrett brothers each scored in a match? It's gotta be quite a few, right? I don't even know where to look to find out...

Thanks!

 

[Ferrari333SP]

Yeah Squidge is awesome; World Rugby liked him enough to actually bring him into some of their RWC Daily videos on Youtube in the past few weeks. Just overall really great analysis of the games he features

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Owens is the best possible ref for New Zealand.

They are undoubtedly the best sporting team in the world at scouting the ref. They already play with the strategy that when they feel the opposing team will probably score a try they will just give up 3 points instead of a try.

throw in the fact that Nigel hates using cards and I don't see New Zealand letting England sniff the whitewash unless it comes from a long linebreak.

I buy that Nigel has an open game cause he usually has a low penalty count. I sell that his games are free flowing and attacking. Ball is always slow in the middle of the field and defenses can steal some weird jackals if they aren't in their own half.

he used to hammer teams early and then have a real free flowing game afterwards cause teams got the message. Now his sole goal is to get through the game 15v15 and with less than 20 whistles.

 

[donmcdazzle]

Agreed, Squidge is pretty great!

Question for you Kiwi fans ... how many times have three Barrett brothers each scored in a match? It's gotta be quite a few, right? I don't even know where to look to find out...

Thanks!

pretty sure it was only the once (against Canada). They've never all played in the same Mitre 10 cup or Super rugby team, and there's a big enough age gap that I'd say they've never played in the same school team. There's another one closer in age to Beauden and Scott who was good but had to retire cause of head injuries (Kane), he might've played 1st 15 with the other two and they may have scored in a game together at schoolboy level.

 

[ncurd]

with less than 20 whistles.

Keep in mind England will use these up in about 10 minutes

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Nah pretty 'controversial' from an English perspective, Owens isn't the ref he was 5-6 years ago even that far back? Remember when he gave knock ons against us playing you even though it clearly went backwards?

I also feel England never get the rub of the green with him and all 50/50 calls go the opposition's way.

Lastly and most importantly his desire for a 'free flowing game' also known as letting teams get away with tons of **** at the breakdown benefits the ABs hugely.

It is what it is and what I felt would happen with Wales on the other side of the pool and Peyper essentially ruling himself out.

Anyway point is there will be a lot of angry Englishmen (including myself) if Owens goes to type.

Every referee in this World Cup has minimised penalties, it seems to be the directive. Similarly the Players are rolling away from rucks better, I'd say this is also a directive.

The all blacks have never sampled the delights of an English curry, shocks all round

nah we have that here. Sausages, cabbage, curry powder, chuck a few sultanas in ...

I can see where you're coming from, but i mean he's a little more harsh on defensive illegalities that compromise the team with the ball, such as off feet at breakdown, delaying rolling away, and he's a bit better with offsides than most refs
The man can't help being witty, I've heard his stand up before actually, he's a funny guy when people were asking him questions, it's just his way of asserting his control on a game
And to be fair, there are times when refs should be more condescending, the likes of Michael Hooper just whine on and on, need to be told to shut up every once in a while
Assistant ref's dont just run touch anymore though, they are high quality referees intended to be a second and third pair of eyes for the Main ref, and as such communicating what you see as equals is useful. Im not sure you'd find many refs complaining about a little help from their touchies, they cant see everything that happens on the pitch
He's certainly not at the level of Skeen

absolutely, nigels demeanour is his way of staying in control of his dealings with the players and captains.

 

[mania]

Not sure what the fuss about Owens is about?

agree there are easily worse refs. benSkeen for one.
owens is called chatty but to me he's always open to dialogue.
when savea got pinged on the ground, despite not being captain owens took time between plays to explain to him why he thought savea shouldve been penalised. it gave an awesome insight of where owens mindset was in the game and helps you understand the ref.
also note saveas ref management. savea approached him with respect and asked politely for clarification. once owens answered savea said thank you and left it there.
i coach my u12's this. dont pss off the ref or youre off and always say please sir and thank you. respect is paramount.
the most important person on the field is the ref. without a ref you dont have a game.

 

[Cooper]

It's a thankless task being a referee, wouldn't wish it on anybody...

 

[Scotty]

Owens and Barnes are my favourite refs, barnes because he controls the game well and doesnt take any crap.

Owens. Great ref IMO and talks to the players well, wont be influenced. He also allows play to flow, favouring the attacking team but sometime does allow to much to go unnoticed.

Playing NZ i dont think he is the ref id choose, allowing their play to continue even if Curry/Underhill are competing for the ball.

Still i remember when Robshaw tallked back to him and all he said to shut him down was 'Christopher!'

 

[james5000]

After our QF victory I am already content with our world cup. That was pretty glorious tbh.

Actually think we should start as pretty big favourites in this all things considered. I'd give us an 80% chance here, and 65% in the final, so basically (.8x.65=.52) 50/50 chance of taking home the cup LOL.

I don't think 80% is being cocky ffs we have won 15 of the last 16!! English should be happy with 20% chance IMO
I don't negative rep English posters for claiming 50/50, I actually think its a good thing you have such confidence.

So you shouldn't negative rep me for my confidence.

Both teams have had near identical routes to the final so no advantage either way really.
Both teams are at basically full strength (only Todd missing for the AB's)

England seem to have a good mix of speed, agility and power.
Only thing they lack is height in the line out.

I don't think they have anywhere near the same big game experience as the AB's.
They can't match the AB's in X factor either.

2018 result is both a postitive and a negative for England.
Sometimes you have to lose a few to learn how to win, on the other hand they really should have won 15-0.

Losing in that manner will mean they will still not feel comfortable if they are in a similar position early.
If they start poorly we could see another capitulation ala Irish

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

After our QF victory I am already content with our world cup. That was pretty glorious tbh.

Two small time nations who are only content with beating us by the look of it... smh. Ridiculous how hard it is for us when every team that plays us is playing their world cup final.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't negative rep English posters for claiming 50/50, I actually think its a good thing you have such confidence.

Well aye, coz you've made it up

 

[MikeTheNative]

If I was an England fan I would be confident that the team is good enough to win, that doesn't mean I would be confident that they are going to win though.

 

[james5000]

Two small time nations who are only content with beating us by the look of it... smh. Ridiculous how hard it is for us when every team that plays us is playing their world cup final.

Its truly a compliment, but i'd say Ireland will never go under the radar again. You have too much talent for that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Its truly a compliment, but i'd say Ireland will never go under the radar again. You have too much talent for that.

You're more optimistic than me then! Reckon we'll be waiting longer for win number three against you lads than we'll wait to play a world cup semi.

Better not to Irish the thread up though, I reckon your maths for this one is right. NZ will win but make it look difficult in my opinion.

 

[Cooper]

After our QF victory I am already content with our world cup. That was pretty glorious tbh.

Actually think we should start as pretty big favourites in this all things considered. I'd give us an 80% chance here, and 65% in the final, so basically (.8x.65=.52) 50/50 chance of taking home the cup LOL.

I don't think 80% is being cocky ffs we have won 15 of the last 16!! English should be happy with 20% chance IMO
I don't negative rep English posters for claiming 50/50, I actually think its a good thing you have such confidence.

I think you're onto a world cup wining equation there, lol!!

One game I'm disappointed never happened between our two nations, was an opportunity to see Eddie Jones inform England side in 2016/17 play us in Eden Park, Auckland. Infact I don't think the NH teams come out nearly as much as they should to NZ, a 3 match test series every 10 years between each team always feels like far too long between drinks.

Not too mention their test squads that come out are always patchy because of club commitments. They should tidy it up and figure something different out.

 

[ForumWhore]

Help me out folks. I won't deny that I'm not a great technician of the game as my extreme lack of talent meant I stopped playing as a kid. However, it never stopped my love for the game. Despite my lack of in depth technical nous, I do.manage to predict outcomes quite well. For example, I never saw anything other than a stuffing for Ireland from the ABs and I also saw Wales losing to France, which they almost did.

My concern is that I can really see England getting roasted on Saturday...and I'm right too often.

Can any of you more clued up folk allay my fears. I'll be watching on the Algarve with mainly Welsh folk and the thought of my predicted drubbing is hurting.

How the fluke can we win this? We're simply not good enough, are we?