RWC Semi Final: France - Wales (15-08-2011, 21:00)

[dangandan]

There is nothing wrong with Bossco's statement. France have been abysmal. Yes, they may do something in a weeks time (very unlikely). Truth is though that they're going to get a serious spanking. I shall be very disappointed if NZ/Oz do not give one of the worst French teams I have ever seen a damn good thrashing.

Or maybe we will see a sudden change in form similar to Ireland's game against Australia! They just need McCaw or Pocock (whoever's in the final) to get injured

 

[tbhp]

There is nothing wrong with Bossco's statement. France have been abysmal. Yes, they may do something in a weeks time (very unlikely). Truth is though that they're going to get a serious spanking. I shall be very disappointed if NZ/Oz do not give one of the worst French teams I have ever seen a damn good thrashing.

Regardless of what you'd want to see, if they make an outsanding performance next week, and win, everything else will be forgiven. The pool matches mean nothing anyway. You don't judge a team on its worst performances, but on its best. Doesn't matter if you lose to Tonga, as long as you play well when it really counts.

Of course if France sucks in final, no matter the result, you'll be allowed to trash them as much as you wish. But right now saying they are the worst ever is like judging a movie before seeing the end.

 

[mustardcharlie]

What is a dangerous tackle?, and why do they have the dangerous tackle law?

Don't know tbh. Anything above the head? Our full back was a small lad had a great boot, but he also knew when to take the ball in amd when to hand it to me. All tackles are dangerous. Playing rugby is dangerous. What is your point.

 

[dullonien]

This thread is going around in circles. People need to realise that some people will see that as a red card offense, no questions asked, and some will see it as a yellow at the most. In rugby, red cards are often reserved for blatant and delibriate acts of foul play, whether or not what Warburton did was delibriate is a matter of opinion, although going on previous conduct it probably wasn't. Can we just leave it there? I've seen accidental tackles in the air given as only penalties before, yet they can be just as dangerous if the player happens to land badly. However, everything should be done to safeguard the players, and there really is no need for tip tackles in the game. Every once in a while there will be mistakes such as Warburton's today, and they will get sent-off even if there was no intent, but it won't happen often and it's all for the greater good of rugby players playing at all levels. There is little Rolland can do about other referees, he's shown to be consistent on such matters, and for that I applaud.

Still doesn't change the fact that I'm still completely gutted about the result, and am still asking myself what if? Humph.

 

[shtove]

Just watching ITV highlights of the match. Delagllio and Pienaar are still repeating their ignorant take on the red card tackle - clueless. And the presenter (an Irish guy) concluded that it would be "awful" if France won the final! Assholes.

And now there's this on facebook:
http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/I-Hate-Alain-Rolland/279296202092428

Wales supporters should get their heads out of their asses and place the blame in the right place. Follow Shane Williams example in the after match interview. They have a good squad, just showed some bad leadership today - that won't be fixed by obsessing about phantom injustices.

Not my favourite French team, but good luck to them.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Just watching ITV highlights of the match. Delagllio and Pienaar are still repeating their ignorant take on the red card tackle - clueless. And the presenter (an Irish guy) concluded that it would be "awful" if France won the final! Assholes.

And now there's this on facebook:
http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/I-Hate-Alain-Rolland/279296202092428

Wales supporters should get their heads out of their asses and place the blame in the right place. Follow Shane Williams example in the after match interview.

Not my favourite French team, but they have my full support now.

Stop generalising or I'll turn nasty.

It's quite amusing watching people taking pot shots at referee's. You should also consider before telling Welsh fans that only during the last 6 Nations a selected breed of Irish fans did exactly the same towards the referee in charge of Lineoutgate, through using Social Media. Don't make the same assumption. Most fans I have been in contact today find it hard to believe but accept what has happened.

 

[SelimNiai]

Just watching ITV highlights of the match. Delagllio and Pienaar are still repeating their ignorant take on the red card tackle - clueless. And the presenter (an Irish guy) concluded that it would be "awful" if France won the final! Assholes.

And now there's this on facebook:
http://en-gb.facebook.com/pages/I-Hate-Alain-Rolland/279296202092428

Wales supporters should get their heads out of their asses and place the blame in the right place. Follow Shane Williams example in the after match interview. They have a good squad, just showed some bad leadership today - that won't be fixed by obsessing about phantom injustices.

Not my favourite French team, but good luck to them.

tounge in cheek bashing on twitter under #iblamerolland, things like "run out of coffee", "Rush Limbaugh" and my addition "stubbed my toe". The more I look at the incident I accept in and have (just about) come to terms with it.

 

[Bluemoon]

Gutted about the match but more disheartened by the reaction on the forum.

I'm all up for everyone to give an opinion of course we are on a forum, but I am disheartened by the sheer amount of WUMs that have appeared. Stating opinions based on basic evaluations or just to upset people.

Obviously the red card was a major factor of the game that would make it difficult for any semi final team to win. Whether it was a red or not I don't want to comment on.

It is a pity that the welsh place kickers were not more successful. The welsh team can take great heart from how they have played in the tournament as they have played it in the correct manner and made a positive input to the tournament. They were far from ordinary and they need to look forward to the future.

I hope France can play better in the final because a landslide for NZ would not be exciting at all. It must be worrying that they scored no try's against 14 men.

 

[Saintjay]

Don't know tbh. Anything above the head? Our full back was a small lad had a great boot, but he also knew when to take the ball in amd when to hand it to me. All tackles are dangerous. Playing rugby is dangerous. What is your point.

Yes all tackles are dangerous to some degree. That's why you practice and are taught to tackle. You reduce the risk by teaching how to tackle at junior level and it is why mini's are not allowed to tackle. Until they have developed understanding and co-ordination. The reason why kids are taught where to put there heads when they tackle, is so they reduce the risk of a neck injury. The same reason you can't tackle and lift a player and take him to the floor without control.

If you don't know the law how can you say it was not dangerous. When you look at the law it was dangerous and as per my other posts there are reasons why hits like this are deemed so.


The last thing I am thinking about is whether I might do a guy serious injury. You tackle with the shoulder. When I am running at a big arsed number eight I think about taking the ball into contact and setting up for my team to get it back or look for an off load. What I don't think about is if he is going to hit me lift me and if my head and neck are going to hit the ground first. I expect the player to hit me and tackle me within the laws of the game. It is up to him to do so and I trust them to do it.


I also know hitting and lifting a player may get be a red card if I get it wrong or the player hits the deck with his head and neck first.


If you look at the laws what Warburton did was wrong and it was a straight red. The pictures of the tackle show he lifted him.

The rule is not there to make rugby players into pretty things. It is to stop dangerous play when there is no call for it.

 

[SelimNiai]

To be fair that game was never going to be decided on who scored more tries, it was going to be decided on who made the bad errors. Sadly that was us.

 

[Thingimubob]

Meh I'm gonna stick to my guns and say I still don't think it was a red, especially since I've seen worse given less punishment. Trying to find a video or even just a picture of Estabenez's spear vs Tonga, which was given a yellow. Not a dig at the French obviously, just want some comparison and thats the only spear tackle I've heard of in this tournament before today.

To those labelling Warburton a thug: grow up. I bet the majority of you slapping that label on him had barely ever heard of him before this WC/season. I've watched him play week in and week out since he was with the u20's and he is simply not a malicious player, he just got the tackle wrong. It happens. Let's hope he doesn't linger too long on this, we'll need him leading the charge for this very exciting young Welsh team for the coming season in preperations for going that step further in 4 years time. Damn exciting time for Welsh rugby.

Hopefully this match will smooth out some things for Gatland in:

1) If Priestland isn't in the team, give the kicks to Halfpenny - the guy is prolific when he's handed the full kicking duties for the Blues.
2) Halfpenny is our best Fullback.
3) Hook isn't gonna be a calm no.10 in big game situations if he's been placed all over the backline previously. Pick a damn position for him (preferably a centre, will have to see how he goes in Perpingan)
4) We need a replacement for Shane and soon. Hopefully Stoddard and Harries get back from injury soon!

EDIT: Forgot to say - about Clerc. Still think he dived towards the end when he got clipped after kicking the ball. Brilliant player, but lost a lot of respect for him when he hesitated and then went down Premier League style in case Rolland was looking. Seriously, if you're gonna dive then please bugger off and sign for Chelsea.

 

[j'nuh]

Can someone help me with this: at the point when Clerc had his feet vertical in the air (perpendicular to the rest of his body) - what was Warburton supposed to do? He lost his grip because at first he was pulling on Clerc's legs, and when Clerc's legs went far enough in the air, Warburton had nothing to keep grabbing. The only way Warburton could have continued that tackle would have had Clerc landing on his head or being driven into the ground. As it happens, they would have been a lot worse than what happened in reality.

 

[barthelemy]

Gutted about the match but more disheartened by the reaction on the forum.

I'm all up for everyone to give an opinion of course we are on a forum, but I am disheartened by the sheer amount of WUMs that have appeared. Stating opinions based on basic evaluations or just to upset people.

Obviously the red card was a major factor of the game that would make it difficult for any semi final team to win. Whether it was a red or not I don't want to comment on.

It is a pity that the welsh place kickers were not more successful. The welsh team can take great heart from how they have played in the tournament as they have played it in the correct manner and made a positive input to the tournament. They were far from ordinary and they need to look forward to the future.

I hope France can play better in the final because a landslide for NZ would not be exciting at all. It must be worrying that they scored no try's against 14 men.

We are worried as well on the display that France showed today..But I would like to bring some points that have been already brought up earlier in this thread :

1) the kicking strategy from France was obviously chosen from the start if we were ahead for score. A lot of kick were not efficient but it was obviously the strategy chosen against Wales. I think France saw that the welsh had a big defense and they did not want to spend the match crashing on a red wall. As well, Guys like williams or halfpenny can be dangerous if the game is a bit disorganised (I think Wales overall like disorganised games, games where they can fire up) and France wanted certainly to avoid a game like that. Overall we win the match so the strategy worked , despite the fact that we have been under pressure all along the match...

2) You can't forget that France have lost too often in final of RWC because they were burned and I really think Lievremont wanted a minimal consuming energy game against Wales to target a big game in final. I think it is a success from this point of view. Even more because we played against 14 players.

3) France has been as surprised as Wales for the red card = No reaction, No adjustment from the frenchies before the Half time. They sticked to the kicking game. I think they could have tried a more handy game because they could create some holes in the welsh defense. I think as well that France has been scared a bit to lose this match that they should win...against 14 men...

4) I'm sure a better side will come up against AB (I do not see australia beating ABs tomorrow)..Enough to beat them ? answer on next sunday !

5) To all people who think it is not deserved for France, France has the best record in RWC (always in the semi-final at least apart 1991 where we lost in QF..None other team in the world can compete in terms of consistency). It is not luck or whatever, it is work and passion for this sport.

 

[shtove]

tounge in cheek bashing on twitter under #iblamerolland, things like "run out of coffee", "Rush Limbaugh" and my addition "stubbed my toe". The more I look at the incident I accept in and have (just about) come to terms with it.

Yeah, I know it's a laugh. Problem is that ITV presenters and lots of supporters don't understand the laws, and they come looking for a huge controversy to sex things up. In the end Rolland gets slandered.

UK tabloids did something similar to England's behaviour off the pitch, from day one. The UK's #1 sports writer spent weeks writing about Tindall and the Blond, but hardly a word about rugby.

For people outside the UK who don't know what ITV coverage is like, here's a good pisstake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rbuLn-Y8KM&feature=list_related&playnext=1&list=SPCE249F79F7CD4EEA

 

[munstermuffin]

Can't believe the debate and bashing of Rolland is still going on.
People say Warburton didn't have malice or intent in tackle and I accept he didn't but you don't need either to terminally hurt a player. Warburton should've know he was running a fine line when he put Clerc's feet above his head.
Then some say Rolland was bias because he gets French games and fail to realize that through Rollands profession he is fluent French and they deserve to hear clear instructions also.
And well some commentators (ITV especially) say it was a terrible decision but well they are totally bias and I'm sure if there was a reverse in rolls and it was a Fench player commiting the foul I'm sure Rolland would've made the correct call in their eyes.
I think people give out when there is no consistency but Rolland was consistent in his own standard. And yes it was a RWC semi final but the rules are the exact same if it was a friendly or and Final so that doesn't matter.

 

[shtove]

Can someone help me with this: at the point when Clerc had his feet vertical in the air (perpendicular to the rest of his body) - what was Warburton supposed to do? He lost his grip because at first he was pulling on Clerc's legs, and when Clerc's legs went far enough in the air, Warburton had nothing to keep grabbing. The only way Warburton could have continued that tackle would have had Clerc landing on his head or being driven into the ground. As it happens, they would have been a lot worse than what happened in reality.

He didn't lose his grip - he said in interview after the match he wanted to contest the ball on the ground. That's why he dropped the player. He should have kept a hold and tried to bring the player safely to ground.

 

[munstermuffin]

]Can someone help me with this: at the point when Clerc had his feet vertical in the air (perpendicular to the rest of his body) - what was Warburton supposed to do? [/B]He lost his grip because at first he was pulling on Clerc's legs, and when Clerc's legs went far enough in the air, Warburton had nothing to keep grabbing. The only way Warburton could have continued that tackle would have had Clerc landing on his head or being driven into the ground. As it happens, they would have been a lot worse than what happened in reality.

Well he should've thought about that before getting into that situation, he didn't have to lift so high... A simple lift and tackle back towards french tryline direction was alot safer and more effective in terms of driving the player back as opposed to down to the floor

 

[j'nuh]

On another note, Wales vs. New Zealand would have been a thrilling end to a WC and I'm gutted that we're not going to be given the opportunity to see it happen. The two best teams in this tournament duking it out for the ultimate trophy. Whereas given how poor France have been I can't see past whoever France plays being a one-sided game. Normally I'd root for a NH team, but it would be awful for rugby if France were to go all the way now.

 

[barthelemy]

On another note, Wales vs. New Zealand would have been a thrilling end to a WC and I'm gutted that we're not going to be given the opportunity to see it happen. The two best teams in this tournament duking it out for the ultimate trophy. Whereas given how poor France have been I can't see past whoever France plays being a one-sided game. Normally I'd root for a NH team, but it would be awful for rugby if France were to go all the way now.

And the match against the english, was it so bad display from France ? I think you just can't support France, NH or not ...

And I think Wales would be smashed up badly by ABs. France has much more chances to disturb the AB game...

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

We are worried as well on the display that France showed today..But I would like to bring some points that have been already brought up earlier in this thread :

1) the kicking strategy from France was obviously chosen from the start if we were ahead for score. A lot of kick were not efficient but it was obviously the strategy chosen against Wales. I think France saw that the welsh had a big defense and they did not want to spend the match crashing on a red wall. As well, Guys like williams or halfpenny can be dangerous if the game is a bit disorganised (I think Wales overall like disorganised games, games where they can fire up) and France wanted certainly to avoid a game like that. Overall we win the match so the strategy worked , despite the fact that we have been under pressure all along the match...

Game plans were the same in both camps IMO, everyone fearing to play wide open (up and under and straight runs from the centers) and risking a counter attack.
After their try, Walles didn't search (or did not physically have the means) to attack from everywhere but still sticked to their plan: Go in the opposite camp, and push the opposition to faults for penalties.
You can't blame the blue not to have played a game Walles could also have created.
Pragmatism was in both camps, it led to a blue victory has it could also did to a red one.