Russia's World Cup

alexrugby · May 24, 2011

IRB Interest to Russia grew up ever since IRB authorities realized Putin pays big cash for big deals

It's better for IRB to concentrate on those nations who really play rugby

And not waste their time on those nations who put National Interests in rugby matches against their neighbors

Feicarsinn · May 24, 2011

alexrugby said:
IRB Interest to Russia grew up ever since IRB authorities realized Putin pays big cash for big deals

It's better for IRB to concentrate on those nations who really play rugby

And not waste their time on those nations who put National Interests in rugby matches against their neighbors

That's pretty much every rugby nation I can think of.

alexrugby · May 24, 2011

Feicarsinn agree, every nation does, but not with accompanying KGB officers

I do not say Russia is bad in rugby but they still have to prove themselves

Meanwhile USA, Canada, Georgia, Romania and other emerging nations has already done something to speak about

And it's unwise (for me subjectively) to speak about Russia as the new Mecca of rugby

Nielsch · May 25, 2011

Woldog said:
I couldn't find the exact attendance for Russian International games, but I'd say it's between 15,000 and 30,000 it depends on what team they are playing really. USA and Georgia will pull a much larger crowd than say Ukraine.

Looking at a YouTube clip from a Russia - Georgia match in 2008, I'd say it's more like 5.000 to be honest. The games in Georgia seem to draw much bigger crowds though. Georgia are domenating the European Nations Cup Division 1 this year by the way. Will be interesting to see them play Scotland at the RWC2011 later this year.

SoRadical · Jun 1, 2011

alexrugby said:
IRB Interest to Russia grew up ever since IRB authorities realized Putin pays big cash for big deals

It's better for IRB to concentrate on those nations who really play rugby

And not waste their time on those nations who put National Interests in rugby matches against their neighbors

alexrugby said:
Feicarsinn agree, every nation does, but not with accompanying KGB officers

I do not say Russia is bad in rugby but they still have to prove themselves

Meanwhile USA, Canada, Georgia, Romania and other emerging nations has already done something to speak about

And it's unwise (for me subjectively) to speak about Russia as the new Mecca of rugby

Let's not mix politics and sport shall we?

Back to rugby, I don't see why you don't think Russia hasn't ,"proved" themselves. They've just qualified for their first ever Rugby World Cup finishing ahead of seven time rugby world cup qualifier Romania in the European Nations Cup. A fully professional league has been established in Russia, which will be a massive beneficiary for the growth of rugby in Russia in the coming years. (Something Georgia and Romania don't have.) There playing numbers are more than three times larger than Georgia's and almost twice as big as Romania's.

I'm not saying Georgia and Romania haven't ,"proved" themselves on the world stage. As I said Romania have qualified for every Rugby World Cup to date. (One of only twelve nations to do so.) And narrowly missed out on a quarter final spot in 1991. Georgia are a fantastic rugby team and fully deserve their spot at the world cup. There pack is one of the meanest in Europe and I'm looking forward to cheering them on in New Zealand. Remember Giorgi Shkinin's try against Ireland at RWC 2007? For a moment it seemed like Georgia were going to do the impossible, I won't be surprised if Georgia give Argentina or Scotland a fright in September.

Granted Russia aren't on world beating form at the moment given recent results, but come RWC 2015 it's likely that Russia will have surpassed Georgia and Romania as the best European team outside the Six Nations. I think Russia have more than, "proved" themselves.

dragos03 · Jun 1, 2011

Don't know about Georgia, but Romania has a fully professional league for a few years now. And indeed, Russia has had a good season when they managed to qualify for the RWC, but their form has been in freefall since then.

Their victories against Romania in the past ENC were back when Romania fielded an "A" team in the competition. When both teams had the best squads available in this year's ENC, Romania won 33-3.

Their investments will show results, sooner or later, but they haven't proven much yet and they have a long way to go.

SoRadical · Jun 2, 2011

dragos03 said:
Romania has a fully professional league for a few years now.

Really? I wasn't aware that the Romanian League was fully professional. I know it's hardly the most reliable source but according to Wikipedia, CSM Baia Mare (Last season's champions) and Steaua Bucureşti (The club with the most Romanian ***les) are both only semi-professional sides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSM_Baia_Mare_(rugby)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSA_Steaua_Bucureşti_(Rugby)

dragos03 said:
Their victories against Romania in the past ENC were back when Romania fielded an "A" team in the competition. When both teams had the best squads available in this year's ENC, Romania won 33-3.

Here are the starting XVs for Romania V Russia on the 26 of February 2011, played in Bucharest, Romania won the game 33-3.

http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/upload/file/1298738463_110226 RO RU Game sheet.PDF

Comparing that Russian XV to the likely starting XV for Russia at the RWC which was posted at the start of the thread, there are only seven players in common. These are <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="--"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> Vladislav Korshunov, Artem Fatakhov, Kiril Kushnarev, Victor Gresev, Alexander Yanushkin, Andre Kuzin and Vasily Artemiev. This does not denote that Russia were playing with a first choice starting XV in Bucharest. Let's not forget that the match was also played in Bucharest and Russia have not had the chance as of yet to play the Romanians in Moscow.

psychic duck · Jun 2, 2011

SoRadical said:
I think Russia have more than, "proved" themselves.

Russia have not proved themselves until they get wins against the top 10 nations

SoRadical · Jun 2, 2011

psychic duck said:
Russia have not proved themselves until they get wins against the top 10 nations

Using this logic the only nations outside the current top ten in the world rankings that should be considered as legitamate rugby teams are, Samoa, Italy, Japan, Canada, USA, Tonga, Romania and Namibia. Keep in mind some of these teams haven't beaten a current top ten side in decades let alone years. Does this mean that we should consider a Namibia side who probably wouldn't even be at this coming Rugby World Cup if the qualification system wasn't so flawed superior to Russia and Georgia? All because the Welwitschias defeated a lackluster Irish touring side twenty years ago.

psychic duck · Jun 2, 2011

SoRadical said:
Using this logic the only nations outside the current top ten in the world rankings that should be considered as legitamate rugby teams are, Samoa, Italy, Japan, Canada, USA, Tonga, Romania and Namibia. Keep in mind some of these teams haven't beaten a current top ten side in decades let alone years. Does this mean that we should consider a Namibia side who probably wouldn't even be at this coming Rugby World Cup if the qualification system wasn't so flawed superior to Russia and Georgia? All because the Welwitschias defeated a lackluster Irish touring side twenty years ago.

no, they haven't proved themselves as an established rugby nation as they haven't defeated or challenged the top 10 nations regularly, like Italy, Argentina and the Pacific Islanders have done, and Georgia will be there if they get the matches where they can play the better teams more often

i meant as a good rugby side, not an illegitimate one

and of course results in the distant past don't mean much, I mean from the current generation of players

iWin · Jun 2, 2011

I'm sorry, but is your logic that funding should be mostly focused in countries in which rugby is already an established sport (and so can be challenging for the top 10) rather than in countries just outside this?
Granted, teams like Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal haven't yet proven themselves, but surely the fact that they even show promise is a good enough reason to pump them full of cash and give them the best chance at developing into a proper rugby nation?

psychic duck · Jun 2, 2011

iWin said:
I'm sorry, but is your logic that funding should be mostly focused in countries in which rugby is already an established sport (and so can be challenging for the top 10) rather than in countries just outside this?
Granted, teams like Russia, Georgia, Spain and Portugal haven't yet proven themselves, but surely the fact that they even show promise is a good enough reason to pump them full of cash and give them the best chance at developing into a proper rugby nation?

I think all nations with potential should get as much funding possible, and the more good teams the better. And I think Russia has lots of potential.

That wasn't my logic at all, it was just a response to this

SoRadical said:
I think Russia have more than, "proved" themselves.

SoRadical · Jun 2, 2011

psychic duck said:
Georgia will be there if they get the matches where they can play the better teams more often

Exactly what I've being saying about Russia, they've proved themselves by enough to play against a top test side by qualifying for a World Cup. (And the Russians fully deserve to be at this tournament) I'm also arguing that Russia have FAR more potential to become a rugby superpower than Georgia or Romania. (No disrespect to them either

)

dragos03 · Jun 4, 2011

The highest tier Romanian league is fully professional (it only has 8 teams though), tier 2 and 3 are semi-professional. As for the Russian XV that lost 33-3 in Bucharest, I am no expert in their national team but Russian fans on various rugby forums claimed it was their best available lineup. I guess the bad recent results made them change the roster for the RWC.

Anyway, I fully agree that Russia has a lot of potential, given their investments and large player base. However, they are not as strong yet as many people on this forum seem to believe, they have a long way to go.

In my opinion, if IRB really wants to help rugby in countries like Russia or Romania, some kind of decent club competition must be organised. A league that would group 2-3 teams from Romania, Russia and Georgia, plus maybe one team from Spain, Portugal, Germany, etc, would result in a lot of development in a few years.

SoRadical said:
Really? I wasn't aware that the Romanian League was fully professional. I know it's hardly the most reliable source but according to Wikipedia, CSM Baia Mare (Last season's champions) and Steaua Bucureşti (The club with the most Romanian ***les) are both only semi-professional sides.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSM_Baia_Mare_(rugby)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSA_Steaua_Bucureşti_(Rugby)

Here are the starting XVs for Romania V Russia on the 26 of February 2011, played in Bucharest, Romania won the game 33-3.

http://www.fira-aer-rugby.com/upload/file/1298738463_110226 RO RU Game sheet.PDF

Comparing that Russian XV to the likely starting XV for Russia at the RWC which was posted at the start of the thread, there are only seven players in common. These are  Vladislav Korshunov, Artem Fatakhov, Kiril Kushnarev, Victor Gresev, Alexander Yanushkin, Andre Kuzin and Vasily Artemiev. This does not denote that Russia were playing with a first choice starting XV in Bucharest. Let's not forget that the match was also played in Bucharest and Russia have not had the chance as of yet to play the Romanians in Moscow.

Nielsch · Jun 7, 2011

SoRadical said:
Exactly what I've being saying about Russia, they've proved themselves by enough to play against a top test side by qualifying for a World Cup. (And the Russians fully deserve to be at this tournament) I'm also arguing that Russia have FAR more potential to become a rugby superpower than Georgia or Romania. (No disrespect to them either )

Georgia is doing extremely well for a country with only 600 male rugby players (not counting youth). Russia has a far bigger potential though.

psychic duck · Jun 7, 2011

dragos03 said:
In my opinion, if IRB really wants to help rugby in countries like Russia or Romania, some kind of decent club competition must be organised. A league that would group 2-3 teams from Romania, Russia and Georgia, plus maybe one team from Spain, Portugal, Germany, etc, would result in a lot of development in a few years.

Great idea, if there is enough interest in the game to sustain a professional league, there could be an Eastern European league with teams from Russia, Georgia and Romania

and players from other countries there, such as Czech Republic and Moldova could play there too, like Cobalas and Jagr

and they could get some sort of deal to get 2 or 3 into Europe

Maybe the Spanish and Portuguese leagues joining the Italian league (not the Magners League) could benefit them too

but remember you must be sure that people will attend these league before making them professional, and make sure there is enough money invested in the teams and the system to make it work

white bear · Nov 8, 2011

I totally agree.Of course, while Russian clubs have small rugby stadiums(2-5h).But in a season 2012 in the Russian league will have10 clubs,although only 3 of them can win the ***le(Yenisey,Krasny Yar and VVA Monino).But the level of these three can play in the European Challenge Cup.By the way,perhapswe will soon see the VVA in the ECCup.To judge their level can result in the game VVA 45-40 Grenoble this year in Saransk.
Russian Bears played brilliantly at the World Cup, 2 half drove the Australians.We are host of seven in 2013,mayby 15 in 2023 ifit does not,then in 2027(100%).
Now there is aproposal to transfer some of the old football stadiums(capacity7000-35000 k)in eightlarge and medium cities torugby clubs.
http://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/rusnatfootball/245409.html
Then we can get therugby boom in the next 3-5years.
By the way, the development of rugby can contribute idiots from the Russian Football League(soccer). From next year the football in Russia goes to the European (winter) system, that is, the season will be're launching in August and end in May. A rugby seasonbegins in Russia in May and ends in September (October).

white bear · Nov 30, 2011

Adam Burns after the World Cup he spent a week in Moscow. He was involved in rugby show ("Всё о регби") on the radio (English and Russian language).
http://www.moskva.fm/stations/FM_93.2/programs/все_о_регби/2011-10-22_13:00/

psychic duck · Nov 30, 2011

I wish the IRB made it so that you had to speak the language of the nation to be eligible

Adam Byrnes should not be playing for Russia, he even said "us Australians" in an interview I read

snoopy snoopy dog dog · Nov 30, 2011

psychic duck said:
Adam Byrnes should not be playing for Russia, he even said "us Australians" in an interview I read

I don't see how Adam Byrnes considering himself Australian is any different to, for example, England's league of nations squad of South Africans, New Zealanders and Samoans. While I agree that the IRBs eligibility rules are a joke, if Byrnes is entitled to play for Russia then good luck to him.

On the subject of an Eastern European club league, it's a great idea in theory but I doubt it could sustain itself financially. Perhaps entering a "Club Russia", "Club Georgia" and "Club Romania" team in the Amlin Cup is a more realistic way to go. Basically those are the national teams for those countries minus their international players who've secured contracts in the bigger European leagues. It would go a long way to getting regular game time for players from those countries against higher class opposition.

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