Rugby Championship Team of the Week: Round Two

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think refs generally just reward the more powerful scrum out of wanting to avoid making difficult decisions. Here, despite the illegalities, Argentina clearly had a stronger scrum in any case. What ****** me off was the fact that we were effectively not allowed to regain our posession out of a scrum under pressure which would've gone a helluva long way to us retaining posession and position to work with; back foot ball and in position is better than no ball at all.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I think refs generally just reward the more powerful scrum out of wanting to avoid making difficult decisions. Here, despite the illegalities, Argentina clearly had a stronger scrum in any case. What ****** me off was the fact that we were effectively not allowed to regain our posession out of a scrum under pressure which would've gone a helluva long way to us retaining posession and position to work with; back foot ball and in position is better than no ball at all.

If they scrum illegal, they should be penalised, no matter how strong the scrum is. We should have gotten a lot more penalties because of the Argies scrumming illegally, yet everyone rants and raves about the might Argentinian scrum. I wonder what would have happened if we did get the penalties? One thing is for sure, there would have been a lot less people complimenting the Argies. And Also this thread's OP would have looked different.

 

[Big Ewis]

well I'm no Rugby wiz at all, but I love scrums and I've learned the basic laws and possible penalty situations. Stay bound, don't pull guy down, support your own weight, no hands or knees on ground, angling, pressure upwards head popping up, collapsing scrum intentionally, position of hands on your opposite prop...that sort of thing. I mean it's not rocket science, the hardest thing is classically if a scrum collapses, how the fk do you know which guy did it ? I've sometimes replayed the same scrum like 10x, slowed down on VLC media player, focused all my concentration and still came out empty at times. I agree with what some pundit once said "only the props themselves know, really...". Because you'll see a prop shaking his head or wtvr but he could very well be dishonest and vexed, so that's no indication.

anyways here about Pumas and Boks, stormer, I've read your comments and looked at the vid. at the same time: I reckon you're being pedantic and unfair sometimes, for e.g. the 1st scrum yes Herrera comes up but Walsh is on Ayerza's side. Those calls happen all the time during scrums, and the pressure is generally coming from the Pumas rather than the Boks.
Of course Ayerza's bound on the 2nd scrum.
To me this is clearly the Pumas have the better scrum, if not for a call or two that could've gone both ways, and they've shown it in over two full matches now.

And I don't mean to twist the knife in the wound for Bok fans, but for this thread's sake the stats are incredibly one-dimensional for the game:
http://www.espnscrum.com/the-rugby-championship-2014/rugby/match/207961.html

At the end of the day the Boks won, and that's all that matters really for them. For the Pumas, they've at least got the moral victory, and no matter what ppl say, it's better to show you can really play than take a 40-point pounding, so yes, this is huge positive for Argentine ovalness.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

well I'm no Rugby wiz at all, but I love scrums and I've learned the basic laws and possible penalty situations. Stay bound, don't pull guy down, support your own weight, no hands or knees on ground, angling, pressure upwards head popping up, collapsing scrum intentionally, position of hands on your opposite prop...that sort of thing. I mean it's not rocket science, the hardest thing is classically if a scrum collapses, how the fk do you know which guy did it ? I've sometimes replayed the same scrum like 10x, slowed down on VLC media player, focused all my concentration and still came out empty at times. I agree with what some pundit once said "only the props themselves know, really...". Because you'll see a prop shaking his head or wtvr but he could very well be dishonest and vexed, so that's no indication.

anyways here about Pumas and Boks, stormer, I've read your comments and looked at the vid. at the same time: I reckon you're being pedantic and unfair sometimes, for e.g. the 1st scrum yes Herrera comes up but Walsh is on Ayerza's side. Those calls happen all the time during scrums, and the pressure is generally coming from the Pumas rather than the Boks.
Of course Ayerza's bound on the 2nd scrum.
To me this is clearly the Pumas have the better scrum, if not for a call or two that could've gone both ways, and they've shown it in over two full matches now.

And I don't mean to twist the knife in the wound for Bok fans, but for this thread's sake the stats are incredibly one-dimensional for the game:
http://www.espnscrum.com/the-rugby-championship-2014/rugby/match/207961.html

At the end of the day the Boks won, and that's all that matters really for them. For the Pumas, they've at least got the moral victory, and no matter what ppl say, it's better to show you can really play than take a 40-point pounding, so yes, this is huge positive for Argentine ovalness.

The front row game is a different game in it self. Playing there I know that first hand. Watching some of the scrummaging going on in the RC has been officiated quite direly by the officials. Lot of boaring in, lot of non-square shoulders, lot of head to head, lot of binding issues, hands on floor, losing of footing, not hitting straight, hitting up instead of down etc. The responsibility of the officials is a tough one but there are clues that you can see when a prop intentionally goes down etc. Been frustrating to watch.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well, Big E. I just can't agree with this level of dubious reffing at a pretty critical facet of the game. I certainly agree Argentina had a better scrum but Walsh was not even trying to do his job. Call it being pedantic or whatever but I still say we should expect better accuracy from top level refs. This is their job. If I f-up at my job I get sued. And it's not just the result of a match and bragging rights on offer, these players are pro athletes and this is there livelyhood and they have responsibilities and commitments and this type of thing effects their reputation and income. It (scrums) should just be handled better at the end of the day.

I suspect somewhere between your response and mine lies what we could call a reasonable reaction

 

[Big Ewis]

The front row game is a different game in it self. Playing there I know that first hand. Watching some of the scrummaging going on in the RC has been officiated quite direly by the officials. Lot of boaring in, lot of non-square shoulders, lot of head to head, lot of binding issues, hands on floor, losing of footing, not hitting straight, hitting up instead of down etc. The responsibility of the officials is a tough one but there are clues that you can see when a prop intentionally goes down etc. Been frustrating to watch.

Right. I just don't think this applies enough here for this Arg SA test 2 in particular for one to say the officiating is catastrophic and one team gets away with all the world's vices in all impunity, and that's all that's in discussion here atm. We got smashed in the scrum, us, the "great French scrum", in AUSTRALIA of all places last summer. I didn't start looking at the scrums with a microscope to pick up lice on a Wallaby's head that could've jumped on Thomas Domingo's head causing his terrible performance. Globally the Wallabies had the upper hand, were pushing us back, that's that.
Unless there are MAJOR faults that aren't called like the ones both you (Cymro) and I listed: hands or knees on ground, illegal angles, constantly collapsing scrum, binding issues; then I just say one team has the ascendency in the scrum, and that's exactly what's occurred here in Argentina.
Didn't particularly want to make this into a long discussion, but here we are.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

A discussion is always healthy if its conducted in the right manor

 

[Big Ewis]

A discussion is always healthy if its conducted in the right manor

ahh, a detailed discussion about methods of torture even if well conducted isn't healthy. And a discussion about that one sprout of grass in my garden, even if conducted in the right manor, isn't "healthy", it's wasteful !

 

[TRF_Cymro]

ahh, a detailed discussion about methods of torture even if well conducted isn't healthy. And a discussion about that one sprout of grass in my garden, even if conducted in the right manor, isn't "healthy", it's wasteful !

 

[Big Ewis]

^ profound wisdom you've got there then friend !