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Rugby Championship Team of the Week: Round Two

Big Ewis

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15 Joaquín Tuculet (Argentina): A well-taken try and some excellent running sees the Puma pip Ben Smith for our 15 jersey. Tuculet beat five defenders and his tactical kicking was intellegent.

14 Cornal Hendricks (South Africa): As crucial tries goes, Hendricks' score around the hour mark will go down as one of the most influential in any game, anywhere, this year. The former Sevens man took his chance brilliantly and it swung the tide in the Boks' favour.

13 Conrad Smith (New Zealand): Missed in Sydney, 'Snake' was back to play his part in a stellar performance from New Zealand's backs against Australia. Few can time and deliver passes better than he does. Consistently excellent.

12 Ryan Crotty (New Zealand): Forced to withdraw at half-time with a facial fracture that will keep him out for four weeks, Crotty still did enough to make the cut. The Crusaders beat four defenders and showed exquisite handling during his time on the park in his first start. Juan Martín Hernández deserves credit for looking back to his best against South Africa, while Matt Toomua was one of few Wallabies to emerge with some credit to his name.

11 Julian Savea(New Zealand): Three clean breaks and try for the All Black flyer who now sits on an incredible 23 tries from 23 Tests. He made over 100m with ball in hand at Eden Park as the Kiwis backs ran rampant.

10 Nicolás Sánchez (Argentina): A close call at fly-half as Aaron Cruden was a very strong contender. But Sánchez is our pick for the second straight week for the way he attacked the Bok defensive line, breaking through or setting his teammates clear for more often than we're used to seeing from Argentina.

9 Aaron Smith (New Zealand): Relentless. Smith showed no signs of slowing down in a turbocharged performance in Auckland. His speed from ruck to ruck and persistence in playing a high tempo game led to Australia unravelling. His best game for New Zealand.

8 Kieran Read (New Zealand): After a disappointing performance in Sydney, Read came storming back on home soil with classic display, scoring a try along the way. A mention for Juan Manuel Leguizamón, who worked hard, making 11 carries.

7 Richie McCaw (New Zealand): Amazingly only received his second ever yellow card in Tests. It didn't have any damage either, with the All Blacks actually kicking on without their captain. Back on he came and added two tries from rolling mauls in the second half to secure his spot in the side. Not slowing down yet. Mentions for Michael Hooper, Australia's best player who scored a sensational try, along with Francois Louw.

6 Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe (Argentina): Due to the presence of McCaw we've shifted Argentina's inspirational flanker to the blindside. Lobbe's form just never dips and in Salta he was tricky to contain when on the charge, while also starring at the lineout.

5 Sam Whitelock (New Zealand): Another week, another pick for Whitelock. 12 tackles, six lineout takes and an assist. The guy picks himself. He did miss one tackle, but we'll let him off.

4 Brodie Retallick (New Zealand): The player of the round. Retallick's athleticism and fitness considering he's over two metres tall at times defied belief. Similar in many ways to Whitelock, the fact that he's only 23 is terrifying. No Kiwi forward made more metres and a couple of offloads underline his skills.

3 Ramiro Herrera (Argentina): After dominating Beast Mtawarira last week, Herrera did the same to Gurthro Steenkamp as the Argentine scrum sent a strong message out to the Wallabies and All Blacks: The set will be a battle against los Pumas.

2 Dane Coles (New Zealand): Also his best performance for the world champions. Coles was playing on fast forward at Eden Park, carrying eight times, beating defenders and making offloads. The All Blacks lineout went 14/0 and he was in the heart of a scrum that decimated the Wallabies. A mention for Agustín Creevy, who carried well.

1 Marcos Ayerza (Argentina): Another impressive display from the Leicester loosehead, who thrashed Jannie du Plessis in the scrums and made himself useful and around the park, making more tackle and more metres than any other prop in Salta.


source: http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9439610,00.html

I love how they spelled "intelligent" at the end of Tuculet's bit. The one word not to spell incorrectly ! :p

So that's a lot of All-Blacks, and oh look, both Argentinian props again...huh...lovely to see Nicolas Sanchez up there, well deserved. Crotty, well earned spot.
 
I would have had Montero over Hendricks, the guys immense. Even though McCaw got two tries i would have had Louw in the team as every ball that dropped he jumped on and he made great tackles on every break.
 
5 Argies and only a Springbok? Mmm...

3 Ramiro Herrera (Argentina): After dominating Beast Mtawarira last week, Herrera did the same to Gurthro Steenkamp as the Argentine scrum sent a strong message out to the Wallabies and All Blacks: The set will be a battle against los Pumas.


:p
 
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1 South African and 0 Australians, huh? Probably fair enough.

well the one Wallaby that should get it by default every week couldn't this time. Hooper couldn't get his name there over McCaw who just added a couple more records to his account on the weekend...

I would have had Montero over Hendricks, the guys immense.

ey, leave the Saffers their one nominee !!! :p

5 Argies and only a Springbok? Mmm...



:p

Knock on wood, knock on wood. As you can see, I even made a video of all the scrums on that other thread. But it just doesn't change he struggled in Castres last season ! Very good news though, very, very glad to see Argentina have such an efficient TH prop in the absence of Mr. Juan Figallo. Figallo gon break some necks in the Prem this season, look out !!! :D
 
Hmm, personally I think this is a really poor team of the week. Rugby365's list was way better. How is it that there is only one South African in the team yet five Puma's? Yes, I know the Pumas played well and fought valiantly and yes, the Boks were lucky to win but they still won! Just not sure how the selectors justified the choices. I also though Izzy Folau was the best #15 on the weekend. The Wallabies were crushed but he still found ways to make things happen which is very difficult on a losing team. Check out his stats for the RC so far - they are insane.
 
Look there is no denying the Pumas have a better scrum and that our encumbent props have been on the decline very noticably as well BUT there is also no denying the demolition job was thanks to getting away with illegal scrummaging all but ONCE. So lets wait and see if they get away with it against NZ first as I am sure Hansen will bring it up to whoever will be refereeing their fixture.
 
Hmm, personally I think this is a really poor team of the week. Rugby365's list was way better. How is it that there is only one South African in the team yet five Puma's? Yes, I know the Pumas played well and fought valiantly and yes, the Boks were lucky to win but they still won! Just not sure how the selectors justified the choices. I also though Izzy Folau was the best #15 on the weekend. The Wallabies were crushed but he still found ways to make things happen which is very difficult on a losing team. Check out his stats for the RC so far - they are insane.

His stats do indeed make impressive reading. He has almost made as many line breaks as Ben Smith, so he must have been playing incredibly well ;)

Unfortunately I haven't seen any of the South African v Argentina matches, but am looking forward to watching Tuculet (who I can't remember seeing before). He must be a pretty impressive player if he has been performing at the same level as Smith, Folau, and Le Roux (3 of the best fullbacks in world rugby)!
 
Look there is no denying the Pumas have a better scrum and that our encumbent props have been on the decline very noticably as well BUT there is also no denying the demolition job was thanks to getting away with illegal scrummaging all but ONCE. So lets wait and see if they get away with it against NZ first as I am sure Hansen will bring it up to whoever will be refereeing their fixture.

I've produced and uploaded the video and posted it to TRF, will put it here again for your convenience:


I'm not being smart, but could you point out where the illegal scrummaging takes place from the Pumas please ?
 
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I've produced and uploaded the video and posted it to TRF, will put it here again for your convenience:


I'm not being smart, but could you point out where the illegal scrummaging takes place from the Pumas please ?


The mean men in blue and white keep pushing the men in green backwards. It is not fair. They are just being bullies. Bullying is illegal....

Honestly scrummaging is the one area of rugby that I will freely admit I still have no idea about. If you got that analysed by 6 scrummaging experts they would probably tell you 6 different things! The only obvious mistake to me was that 2nd last scrum when the Argentina LH bored drove straight in on the angle and for some reason South Africa got penalized. It looked like a similar things happened in the last scrum, and perhaps some of the other scrums too?
 
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Honestly scrummaging is the one area of rugby that I will freely admit I still have no idea about. If you got that analysed by 6 scrummaging experts they would probably tell you 6 different things! The only obvious mistake to me was that 2nd last scrum when the Argentina LH bored drove straight in on the angle and for some reason South Africa got penalized. It looked like a similar things happened in the last scrum, and perhaps some of the other scrums too?

You and me both mate. As you pointed out, there is close to zero consistency with interpretation of the laws amongst referees and really who can blame them? I mean how often will you be watching a game live and as soon as there is a scrum related penalty the commentators will say it is for one thing and the referee awards it for something completely different? I see this all the time.

Maybe it is because I am an Australian and there is a strong dislike for slow, set piece dominated rugby in my blood but I view the scrum as the biggest problem with our game today. Still cannot every see the IRB doing anything significant about it as this is a major area NH teams are able to compete with SH sides. Frustrating...
 
I think the only way you can more or less have an understanding of scrums is if you play at prop for a reasonable period of time. You sort of get an empathy for what is likely happening (although it's often still pretty difficult to tell). It's difficult to know if the LH is boring in, or if the TH has dropped his shoulder and began folding, or which prop has dropped to ground because the opposite prop went too low and lost balance through a slip resulting in one prop looking like he folded, or whether the other prop simply folded due to the pressure. Sadly there are barely any props who commentate, and I'm fairly sure even top referees just use a lot of guess work as none look like they've scrummaged as anything other than an exercise to understand scrums - likely against other referees who have equally no idea of how to scrum.

It's a part of the game I love and would hate to see it removed - but I wouldn't mind seeing a scrum referee of some kind who generally had some kind of idea of what players are doing.
 
I think it's a good team that reflects who played well on the weekend.
The Aussies didn't play well and it's reflected in the team choice. Aussie are a good team and on a better day it will be reflected in their output. Sadly they ran into an All Black team, fired up for once again choking at the record, playing at home in front of a fan base that was deeply irked at the refereeing performance of the week before, it was always going to be a big ask for the yellow and greens.
The saffers on the other hand are a class act, and it shows both how good they are that they managed to beat a fired up Argentina when they were not playing their best, and how good Argentina are, especially at home. They are a worthy member of the Rugby Championship and their player nearly pulled off a brilliant result. It's only a matter of time before Argentina start to beat the top four teams on their home soil, at least intermittently.
It was a team based on one weekend of play and I think it's a fair call.
 
I've produced and uploaded the video and posted it to TRF, will put it here again for your convenience:


I'm not being smart, but could you point out where the illegal scrummaging takes place from the Pumas please ?


I'll go through the motions, sure. I also have to admit SA won the B&I Lions series in 2009 somewhat on the back Beast doing the exact same thing in the 1st test and also getting away with it. So to clarify waht I was getting at, the scrums are a bit of a lottery and there is no denying the Argentine scrum is a better one so they obviously get the benefit of the doubt but on a number of occasions there is no doubt Arg were at fault for the scrum disintegrating and that was my comment;

Scrum 1 - Herrera 1st one to pop up yet Bismarck is penalized. Herrera popping up at TH is a dead give away Ayerza is in on the angle even if we can't see it from this view.
Scrum 2 - What irks me here is Walsh actually saying both he and the touch judge is watching Jannie alone. What does that mean? Is he saying he isn't looking at the scrum as a whole and only focussing on Jannie? 1:30 the scrum is collapsing and Ayerza is unbound and pulling Jannie down on his jersey; easy penalty for SA surely? No, Ayerza stays unbound but tucks his arm in while Jannie has to put his arm out when going down as it's literally his neck on the line here and Walsh pings us. This is just fact.
Scrum 3 - Free kick is fair enough, Steenkamp lost balance and moved in early but here I feel most refs would go for a reset first. Yes, I feel the SA scrum was again hard done by. You guys can mock me but that is what I truly believe.
Scrum 4 - Here SA is actually dominant but wait, Walsh calls for a reset. WTF? Reset and here Steenkamp gets away with dropping his bind. Okay, here SA get the benefit. Reset again and Walsh pings Ayerza rightly for coming in all of 90 degrees.
The last couple of scrums I won't even discuss the angling is so obvious.

It was not just the scrums. One each of the SA and Argentine mauls were very clear truck and trailers. The Arg one was close to the end of the game and the SA one in the middle(ish). Also, the maul Conrad Smith shared in another thread with SA close to the Arg try line with Arg forcing SA out there are any number of Arg players joining the maul from the side. The fact that some of the Arg players have twisted their bodies after joining from a correct angle does not not other can join from the side.

Okay, I had my say, now let me have it! ;P
 
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I'll go through the motions, sure. I also have to admit SA won the B&I Lions series in 2009 somewhat on the back Beast doing the exact same thing in the 1st test and also getting away with it. So to clarify waht I was getting at, the scrums are a bit of a lottery and there is no denying the Argentine scrum is a better one so they obviously get the benefit of the doubt but on a number of occasions there is no doubt Arg were at fault for the scrum disintegrating and that was my comment;

Scrum 1 - Herrera 1st one to pop up yet Bismarck is penalized. Herrera popping up at TH is a dead give away Ayerza is in on the angle even if we can't see it from this view.
Scrum 2 - What irks me here is Walsh actually saying both he and the touch judge is watching Jannie alone. What does that mean? Is he saying he isn't looking at the scrum as a whole and only focussing on Jannie? 1:30 the scrum is collapsing and Ayerza is unbound and pulling Jannie down on his jersey; easy penalty for SA surely? No, Ayerza stays unbound but tucks his arm in while Jannie has to put his arm out when going down as it's literally his neck on the line here and Walsh pings us. This is just fact.
Scrum 3 - Free kick is fair enough, Steenkamp lost balance and moved in early but here I feel most refs would go for a reset first. Yes, I feel the SA scrum was again hard done by. You guys can mock me but that is what I truly believe.
Scrum 4 - Here SA is actually dominant but wait, Walsh calls for a reset. WTF? Reset and here Steenkamp gets away with dropping his bind. Okay, here SA get the benefit. Reset again and Walsh pings Ayerza rightly for coming in all of 90 degrees.
The last couple of scrums I won't even discuss the angling is so obvious.

It was not just the scrums. One each of the SA and Argentine mauls were very clear truck and trailers. The Arg one was close to the end of the game and the SA one in the middle(ish). Also, the maul Conrad Smith shared in another thread with SA close to the Arg try line with Arg forcing SA out there are any number of Arg players joining the maul from the side. The fact that some of the Arg players have twisted their bodies after joining from a correct angle does not not other can join from the side.

Okay, I had my say, now let me have it! ;P

You make valid points indeed. What irks me is the fact that Walsh and his touch judges are only looking at a certain area of the scrum, and mostly focus at the area where the players make impact and the ball is feeded. None of them are looking at Ayerza binding illegally (or not at all). when he binds, he's suppose to be binded on the arm or side of the jersey. But what he does is he grabs the shoulder area and then pulls it inwards and towards him. Now what this does is it makes his opponent lose balance, and not stay straight.

The Argies were very clever with the scrum setups and looked at where Walsh was standing and played the opportunity to their favour. I sometimes wish our guys would use these underhanded tactics to their favour, I mean, Jannie is a doctor, he's supposed to be a smart person, but he doesn't use his brain.
 
For anyone who isn't sure what is happening with the scrums and who is pushing straight or folding, the easiest way too tell is look at the hips. Ayerza'z hips are constantly at a 45 degree angle and is scrumming illegally. If the tighthead fold and drops the bind the looseheads shoulders will go at a 45 degree angle but the hips will first stay straight, then he will swing his hips around. Most scrum penalties come from illegal binding but I think it's just a cowards way out from refs that don't know what happening. You should bind on the arm or the side, but alot will slip their bind down too the chest and pull up too the throat or on the collar as they can pull a player down and appear to have the advantage.
 
For anyone who isn't sure what is happening with the scrums and who is pushing straight or folding, the easiest way too tell is look at the hips. Ayerza'z hips are constantly at a 45 degree angle and is scrumming illegally. If the tighthead fold and drops the bind the looseheads shoulders will go at a 45 degree angle but the hips will first stay straight, then he will swing his hips around. Most scrum penalties come from illegal binding but I think it's just a cowards way out from refs that don't know what happening. You should bind on the arm or the side, but alot will slip their bind down too the chest and pull up too the throat or on the collar as they can pull a player down and appear to have the advantage.

Well, inside/outside the arm (more the side of the shoulder or pit). Actually binding on the arm or sleeve is illegal. The number of times you see a TH try and pull the LH arm to turn him should all be a penalty and never get awarded (again this can result in the LH hips turning before the push is even suppose to begin, so it still makes it complicated to interpret. An illegal bind is one of the first things worth looking for).
 
Well, inside/outside the arm (more the side of the shoulder or pit). Actually binding on the arm or sleeve is illegal. The number of times you see a TH try and pull the LH arm to turn him should all be a penalty and never get awarded (again this can result in the LH hips turning before the push is even suppose to begin, so it still makes it complicated to interpret. An illegal bind is one of the first things worth looking for).

Exactly! But this shows you that the refs are focused on the wrong areas at scrum time. And it's so easy to rectify. By positioning in a crouched (squatted poisition) the ref will be able to have a good spot on his side, and then hopefulle the touch judge on the other side does the same:

1. Check for binding even before they engage
2. Check for early engagement
3. Check for feeding of the ball into the scrum
4. Check again the binding and/or any other illegal acts by the teams.

If we can spot these errors, then why on earth can't Walsh, or most refs for that matter?
 

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