Rugby Championship: Australia - Argentina (15/09/2012)

[Icemn]

cooper is a league player, union does not suite him[/

how?

he looks out of place as if his style does not suite union, i bet you he would make a brilliant league player

 

[Ruckyou]

he looks out of place as if his style does not suite union, i bet you he would make a brilliant league player

He plays almost identical to Aaron Cruden. Flick passes , mesmerizing side step , long balls , pace to burn. its awsome to see and its excatly what union needs. instead of your average predictable first five like Morne Styen and co.

 

[Icemn]

He plays almost identical to Aaron Cruden. Flick passes , mesmerizing side step , long balls , pace to burn. its awsome to see and its excatly what union needs. instead of your average predictable first five like Morne Styen and co.

maybe its because cooper reminds me of benji marchall :? maybe that is why i think he is more eligilble for league than union

 

[Big Ewis]

Ehrm... while I agree on the psychological side of rugby, I'd like to mind you that the last time the Wallabies were "smashed" at home by the Springboks were in 2009, when they lost 25-32 (3 tries vs. 2), not a proper smashing.
The following match they won 21-6 in Brisbane.

That was the Bokke who won the Lions Series, when IMO they probably peaked as never before.
That was an Australian side still assembling with many guys who won't featured again in the following years.

After that, Australia lost to South Africa once in 2 years (2010 in the first test on the highveld), won 6 of the last 7 matches, with a streak of 5 consecutive wins against them.


And the last Aussie side who won in New Zealand was the class of 1986.

I dunno what you mean by the last sentence, but damn it's true Australia hasn't won in NZ in a while ! Last time was 2001...but they got a couple of victories in a row there though.
And you took my comment eerily too seriously, my point is it's not because A beats B and B beat C that A crushes C, merely.

 

[petite]

People assume Cooper is showing off but he is just playing the game. Like Hernandez, Cooper is one of the most naturally talented players to ever pick up the oval ball.

dont get me wrong he is a great player, just like CR7

 

[welshglory]

cooper is a league player, union does not suite him

I love it, Aplon is the saviour of the Boks back line and Cooper can't play Union :lol:

 

[Shaggy]

I dunno what you mean by the last sentence, but damn it's true Australia hasn't won in NZ in a while ! Last time was 2001...but they got a couple of victories in a row there though.
And you took my comment eerily too seriously, my point is it's not because A beats B and B beat C that A crushes C, merely.

Yeah, Australia hasn't beaten the all Blacks at Eden Park, Auckland since 1986 ... I think that's where the confusion is

 

[rgman]

Hi guys! I only expect a decent result against Wallabies. Go Pumas! (19Australia-10Arg)

 

[madflyhalf]

Yeah, Australia hasn't beaten the all Blacks at Eden Park, Auckland since 1986 ... I think that's where the confusion is

Yessss!!
Sorry I made confusion!

Anyway what I wanted to point out is that we can't talk much about the Wallabies bashed at home by Springboks and then to rapidly come back beatin the ABs in NZ... even if this happened (I don't remember the 2000-2001 stats), it happened 11 years ago at best.
It's obviously not a recent pattern to take as example for nowadays.

 

[Darwin]

Right, time for Dingo_Darwins preview of the key matchups:

I see Argentina having an advantage up front this match, particularly at scrum time. While the Australian scrum held up well against South Africa last week (and arguably even had the edge), I think this week will be a different story for a couple of reasons. One is a change in the Aussie locks. I think Timani has contributed hugely to the Aussie scrum, and though Douglas is a good scrummager himself I don't think he is as good as Timani. The second reason is Roncero. While Alexander held up very well against Mtawarira last weekend, Roncero is a much more difficult proposition. He probably doesn't had the raw strength of Mtawarira, but he is vastly experienced, and is much shorter than Mtawarira. His height (or lack there-of) is quite important, as tall tightheads often struggle against shorter LH props, especially ones with all the tricks in the book! I see Figallo having an advantage over Robinson on the other side, and though I think Polota-Nau is better than Guinazu, I don't think he makes up for the advantage Argentina look to have in the props. Again, I think Argentina have an edge at lock. Sharpe is still playing good rugby, and though I quite like Douglas he is a rookie at this level, while Albacete and Carizza are both quality international locks.

The loose-forwards look pretty evenly matched to me, though Australia could well have the advantage at the breakdown through Hooper. Faras Cabello is a good solid player in my opnion, in a very similar mould to DEnnis, so I think they basically cancel each other out. I would take Hooper over Leguizamon, mainly as I think winning the breakdown battle will be crucial, though I do think Leguizamon is a very good player. Fernandez Lobbe is a world class number 8, and though Samo has been fantastic for an 80-year old man he is not in the same class.

The halves are very evenly matched in my opinion. I'm not at all familiar with Landajo, but JMH played very well at 10 last week - I was particularly impressed with his defense. Phipps is an ok halfback. He isn't the playmaker Genia is, and his passing can a be a bit slow at times, but he does get to the breakdown quickly, and I have always been impressed with his work-rate on defense (he is usually near the top of the tackle count). Cooper was solid last week, and as I have said before I have a feeeling he will thrive in the role of the sole play-maker, especially with a hard running 'bail-out option' in McCabe outside him. I think Australia have the advantage in the midfield, but not by a huge amount. Though I'm sure the Aussie midfield will be criticized for lacking creativity, I think if used correctly a McCabe/AAC midfield could be very effective. McCabe runs great lines at times - if Cooper can hit him with a short pass he could well find gaps in the Argentine defense, or they could simply skip him and go wide, as Argentina us a very narrow defensive line. The best thing about the Aussie midfield is on defense though - I can't see anyone getting through McCabe and AAC (though they may target the Phipps/Cooper channel).

Out wide again I think Australia have and advantage. Ioane was well contained last week, but is always a massive threat. I have been quite impressed with Camacho thus far, but I feel he will have a hard time containing Ioane. On the other wing Shipperly faces off against Agulla - though Shipperly lacks experience I actually think he will get the better of this match-up. Both teams have new fullbacks this week. Amorosino is a good attacking fullback (from what I remember!), so hopefully will spark some Argentine counter-attacking from the back. While putting Barnes at fullback is certainly a risk (and I'm sure he will be tested under the high ball) I think it may pay off for Australia, as he is probably the best tactical kicker in their side (and at least back there he won't be doing any 'stupid dribbly kicks'*)

I think it will be a pretty close game, but I feel Australia's home advanatge, and superior goal-kicking, will be enough to see them through. If Argentina can turn the match into a forward battle the could well win, but I think the Aussie backline will prove too good if they can get enough quality ball (a big if I suppose!). Overall I'm picking Australia to win by 10-15.



*As coach Robbie Deans described them at halftime last weekend.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Does anyone else think Phelan looks more like a player and Roncero looks more like the coach?

 

[Helmut83]

Does anyone else think Phelan looks more like a player and Roncero looks more like the coach?

Hair is the key.

Phelan was a massive tackler, but otherwise he was not very good IMO, at least not as good as the loose forwards we have today.

 

[Big Ewis]

Yessss!!
Sorry I made confusion!

Anyway what I wanted to point out is that we can't talk much about the Wallabies bashed at home by Springboks and then to rapidly come back beatin the ABs in NZ... even if this happened (I don't remember the 2000-2001 stats), it happened 11 years ago at best.
It's obviously not a recent pattern to take as example for nowadays.

wow, that's as old as I am ! 26 years ago...
Yeah you're right, I just meant this generally speaking, again, not specifically between AUS and NZ...
Two test matches in rugby with the same two teams can be as different as Heaven n Hell. Just one example would be the Lions n SA (2009: SA wins first two, then loses third 9-28 one week later) or any two sides...

One of the greatest disparities that really shows that rugby is about a lot more than just the squad on paper is the 2008 Tri-Nations: Aus wins Durban easily, 27-15. Then the following week SA crushes AUS (at home again in Johannesburg) 53-8 !...same two teams, just one week later...

All I'm saying is psychology is a huge ingredient for success in rugby specifically. You don't quite see this in the NBA for example in the playoffs when two teams face off to win 4 games in a best-of-7 series. You don't see A beats B by 30, then B beats A by 30...

 

[dasNdanger]

Would like to stay up for this one, but must try to get some shut-eye (it's 5:40 am here, been up since 3). Will record and catch it later.

das

 

[justanargie]

Nice start... I`ll be happy if only we have a decent kicking night (7am over here, dasNdanger)...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Fantastic chase/try saver by Shipperly (was it?)

 

[Darwin]

Fantastic chase/try saver by Shipperly (was it?)

McCabe. Then got himself sent off for taking out the halfback.

Barnes hits the post for the second time in a row....

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Pumas can actually win this if they can make something of the chances. It's a shame I have to leave in a couple of minutes to head off to work...

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Have to admit, we've been a tad lucky here and there!

 

[justanargie]

Have to admit, we've been a tad lucky here and there!

I completely agree, but luck must be helped...