Roundabouts and other driving pet peeves

[Saintjay]

I saw a bit of an incident in London yesterday which got me wondering.

A guy came off his bike in a busy City street during rush hour and he clearly thought it was a female pedestrian's fault. I didn't see the episode, only the aftermath so can't comment on fault although many pedestrians and cyclists pretty much do as they please around there ignoring traffic lights and crossings etc.

The cyclist was clearly livid and walked quickly after the woman trying to remonstrate with her. She totally ignored him and carried on walking which evidently annoyed him more and he then shoved her, I didn't think trying to take her off her feet or hurt, but clearly not a good look. A bit of a crowd then gathered, with one woman in particular incensed at the cyclist's actions. As it happens a Police van was just over the road and the last I saw was a couple of coppers coming to deal with it.

As a regular cyclist what I do know is that I'd have been bloody furious if someone had taken me down and then refused to even acknowledge me, let alone apologise - cyclists are vulnerable at the best of times and a lot of cars and busses use that road. But what should the cyclist have done?

Busy city centre, unfortunately I'll assume the cyclist takes some blame by not allowing for conditions.

He then totally messes up any credibility by shoving a woman in public. Which is common assault.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

We all agree the cyclist shouldn't have done what he did and @Saintjay you are of course quite right to say that it was common assault. For clarity @Reiser99 she wasn't pushed "over".

As a paid up MAMIL who rides in the countryside I genuinely despair at what I see from city cyclists, many of whom are plain moronic. Nonetheless @Saintjay I can't just assume the cyclist was at fault, as loads of pedestrians regularly go for gaps that aren't really there or have their noses stuck in their phones. I've seen any number of near misses where this happened. He may well have been at fault but we don't know and he clearly strongly didn't think so.

So having agreed that the shove was wrong, what I was wondering is what should he have done instead to state his case when the woman clearly wasn't going to engage?

 

[Saintjay]

We all agree the cyclist shouldn't have done what he did and @Saintjay you are of course quite right to say that it was common assault. For clarity @Reiser99 she wasn't pushed "over".

As a paid up MAMIL who rides in the countryside I genuinely despair at what I see from city cyclists, many of whom are plain moronic. Nonetheless @Saintjay I can't just assume the cyclist was at fault, as loads of pedestrians regularly go for gaps that aren't really there or have their noses stuck in their phones. I've seen any number of near misses where this happened. He may well have been at fault but we don't know and he clearly strongly didn't think so.

So having agreed that the shove was wrong, what I was wondering is what should he have done instead to state his case when the woman clearly wasn't going to engage?

It's difficult without seeing the accident. I'm working on the basis like with advanced driving you have information, position, speed etc. I'm guessing they have something similar for cycling. As a driver you'd be looking for a pedestrian close to the kerb on there phone and so on. So the cyclist should have had his hazard perception dialed up to ten.

I accept i might have been over harsh and he might not have been to blame at all.

As for how he should have handled it. Don't really know tbh, unless he was trying to get her details for a personal injury claim what was he trying to achieve.

You can flip it on it's head and ask what advice should you give a female if she's been involved in an accident and faced with an angry male. Probably something like de-escalte, or remove yourself from the situation, call the cops.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

As for how he should have handled it. Don't really know tbh, unless he was trying to get her details for a personal injury claim what was he trying to achieve.

You can flip it on it's head and ask what advice should you give a female if she's been involved in an accident and faced with an angry male. Probably something like de-escalte, or remove yourself from the situation, call the cops.

Yep. Those were the points I was wrestling with.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Duty of care is with the cyclist to take care of the pedestrian per new hierarchy of road users rule of HW code. But there are lot of pedestrians who just step out though without even looking, presumably because of this new rule. But that only applies to junctions. Bound to be CCTV especially in City of London.

If it was at a junction then he should have given way if she'd started crossing. I find 99% of incidents can be avoided though just by the cyclists slowing down especially especially approaching such crossings and this is where you get cyclists weaving around pedestrians at low speed.

But yeh physically assaulting a pedestrian is out of order. Hope the police sorted it out and charged the cyclist.

I don't know if they caught this cyclist who they were seeking for head butting a pedestrian in London 5 years ago?

 

[AlRums]

Duty of care is with the cyclist to take care of the pedestrian per new hierarchy of road users rule of HW code. But there are lot of pedestrians who just step out though without even looking, presumably because of this new rule. But that only applies to junctions. Bound to be CCTV especially in City of London.

If it was at a junction then he should have given way if she'd started crossing. I find 99% of incidents can be avoided though just by the cyclists slowing down especially especially approaching such crossings and this is where you get cyclists weaving around pedestrians at low speed.

But yeh physically assaulting a pedestrian is out of order. Hope the police sorted it out and charged the cyclist.

I don't know if they caught this cyclist who they were seeking for head butting a pedestrian in London 5 years ago?

I'm hoping that video cyclist got prosecuted,but I doubt it since he almost certainly couldn't be identified.

Pedestrians always have priority.

Grabbing/kicking/punching anyone for a perceived fault is assult pure and simple.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Pedestrians always have priority.

Well, no they don't always have priority. Remember priority is given not taken. They wouldn't just cross a busy road with cars unless they have a death wish. But a lot in CIty of London will just follow the herd and cross even it's green for cyclists, but no cars coming. Hence why there's a conflict. Where a cyclist has jumped a red light then of course they are in the wrong and any ensuing altercation should be dealt with if there's the evidence.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Had an incident recently where 2 cyclists with an adjustment death wish sped out onto 2 roundabouts without showing for traffic, cutting up cars on the roundabouts, and then tried to overtake a learner driver by forcing themselves into the lane next to it right where my car was...

All to avoid having to simply slow down a bit. They are lucky they weren't taken out as they were completely ignoring all other traffic on the road.

As someone who used to cycle regularly on the roads, I can't understand these idiots with apparent death wishes. No amount of arrogant belief you're in the right will protect you if a car collides with you.

 

[General Melchett]

Instead of grouping people as drivers, cyclists or pedestrians (which is easy to do if you only only fall into one or two of these groups) I've learned to group people as entitled or negligent arseholes which generally includes a combination of all three.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

End of the day whatever mode of transport peeps are on there going to be selfish entitled arseholes. Just there are those more vulnerable than others.

 

[Saintjay]

Well, no they don't always have priority. Remember priority is given not taken. They wouldn't just cross a busy road with cars unless they have a death wish. But a lot in CIty of London will just follow the herd and cross even it's green for cyclists, but no cars coming. Hence why there's a conflict. Where a cyclist has jumped a red light then of course they are in the wrong and any ensuing altercation should be dealt with if there's the evidence.

You do now have a hierarchy of road users with the most vulnerable (pedestrians) at the top.

Also a change that pedestrians crossing at junctions take priority and cars, bikes should give way to let them cross.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

You do now have a hierarchy of road users with the most vulnerable (pedestrians) at the top.

Also a change that pedestrians crossing at junctions take priority and cars, bikes should give way to let them cross.

That's the new rules, but the reality is different. Yes, I said pedestrians have priority at junctions if you read my post above, but I find pedestrians also just cross when it's not a junction on normal roads/streets without looking. There's also confusion whether drivers should give way at roundabout exits and entrances since the new hierarchical rules came into force.

I thought this was quite a good video posted 2 years ago on YT, but relates to driving tests. Existing drivers, cyclists etc? What's everyone else's experience: