Romanian Rugby

[Croket66]

Because EPCR want only teams who plays a domestic cometition which I think is a good thing.

 

[Chevalier]

Because EPCR want only teams who plays a domestic cometition which I think is a good thing.

I don´t know, take the example of the welsh and irish franchises, I think the franchise system improved the local teams, wouldn´t it be better for european tier 2 or 3 nations to develop franchise systems which would thereafter have better chance against tier 1 teams?

 

[Croket66]

I don´t know, take the example of the welsh and irish franchises, I think the franchise system improved the local teams, wouldn´t it be better for european tier 2 or 3 nations to develop franchise systems which would thereafter have better chance against tier 1 teams?

- Romanian federation used Wolves as a development side to try players before 6 Nations B
- The squad trained together about 2 weeks before the first game
- They were about 10 changes between each game
- I think Timisoara is stronger than the Wolves. The squad include 9 RWC players but also various NZ/Aussies/Tongans/South African players with professional experience

 

[dragos03]

The Wolves barely trained a few days together before each match and the players were constantly rotated, but they were a very useful development tool for Romanian rugby.

Timisoara should be stronger than the Wolves but the club was affected by serious financial issues lately and I think this will hurt the team. Some players have left the club and they will also miss Fijian tighthead Manasa Saulo, who got suspended until January for an infringement during the RWC.

 

[FrankHeaven]

I don´t know, take the example of the welsh and irish franchises, I think the franchise system improved the local teams, wouldn´t it be better for european tier 2 or 3 nations to develop franchise systems which would thereafter have better chance against tier 1 teams?

Ireland has always had a provincial set up, so the set-up has worked fairly smoothly in the pro era. However, in Wales, the introduction of regional franchises has destroyed the club competition (now a feeder to the regions) which used to be a very strong standard and well-supported. Is the success of the Welsh national team in the pro era because of the regions, or because Wales no longer loses players to rugby league? The other point here is that Scotland has the same system as Ireland and Wales but the national team has been a miserable failure during the pro era.

Personally, I think the traditions of European rugby lie with the clubs, and every European country should have a club league as its premier domestic competition. The regions/provinces are an artificial construct modelled on the southern hemisphere, where the traditions are very different.

 

[Chevalier]

I also enjoy the tradition in European rugby but for example, if Wales hadn´t followed the Irish example, do you think the teams would be able to face the Top 14 and Premiership squads? I don´t see any reason to have a franchise system in France and England, but in other countries, franchise is in my opinion a way to develop the sport.
The Scottish franchises are improving and the national team played very well in this World Cup. Scotland would need a 3rd franchise like Connacht was for Ireland some years ago, a developmental franchise to gather new and younger players.
But about the 2nd and 3rd tier nations, I can´t see any club being able to have a good european season for ages to come. spanish, romanian, russian, portuguese, etc... clubs aren´t and won´t be able to play the big boys for a long time unless something is done.
But, like I told before, it´s just my opinion and I hope more people could join our nice conversation

 

[dragos03]

A franchise structure won't work in Romania at the moment. Fans would not support a team representing the region that is based in another town and there would be no regional public authority to finance it.

A franchise created just to play in an European competition, like the Bucharest Wolves were, would not get very good results either. The players would get very limited time to train together. Also, the franchise would just focus on testing younger players and giving them some experience (like the Wolves always did), instead of actually winning games, since Romanian rugby gets basically no other chance to compete at an international level.

In time, clubs are the way to go. If Timisoara Saracens will manage to qualify for the next season of the Challenge Cup, this will increase public and private investment in the club significantly and give the other Superliga clubs something to fight for in future seasons.

Also, keep in mind that with all their limitations, the Bucharest Wolves still managed to be reasonably competitive in most games and get the occasional upset win against a Top 14 side (they have even beaten Toulon). After they get some international experience, I think Timisoara can do at least as well as the Wolves.

The current squad of Saracens Timisoara includes 16 Romanian internationals (9 were part of the RWC squad), three NZ players (one is a former All Black), two Fijians (one of them, prop Manasa Saulo, had a great RWC and has signed for Toulose next season), four Tongans and one Australian (capped at 7s level).

 

[Chevalier]

Hey man, and how is Superliga championship? I looked for it on internet and I only found information in romanian, Are there really only 6 teams? How is the whole structure of the championship?

 

[dragos03]

Yes, there are only 6 teams in the top division. The structure is quite complex (to allow a long season with so few teams), you will find more information at the start of this topic.

Now the league is in its final phase of the season. The bottom teams have already played the first leg of the 5-6th place playoffs (U Cluj has won 26-15 against Dinamo, the return leg will be played this weekend). The semifinals will be played on November 28 in one leg, Timisoara Saracens vs CSM Bucharest and Baia Mare vs Steaua, then the finals in Baia Mare.

If you look through this topic, you will find plenty of info and videos from the Superliga.

 

[Jayatron]

I had a thought the other day. Perhaps there should be another pool added to the Challenge Cup. So 6 pools of 4 which totals 24 teams.

However the 6th pool would be like a 'Black Sea' group made up of the champions of the Georgian, Russian, Romanian and perhaps the Italian league. So the winner of each pool and then the best 2 runner ups rather than 3. Qualifying tournament in itself to a higher standard with perhaps a shield awarded for the winner of the group and of course a runner up can come from this group as well.

Problem is though Tier 2 teams will not play real quality that they may play in the normal pool stage. For example the Russian have Cardiff, Connacht and Newcastle.

 

[FrankHeaven]

@Chevalier The Welsh regions have performed pretty poorly in Europe, and the Pro12 for that matter. The Welsh club game was so strong in the amateur era, and even in the pro era, they always reached the European Cup knockout stages (until regions arrived in 2004). They may not have the financial backing of the English and French clubs (though Cardiff owner Peter Thomas was pretty loaded) but I think they would be competitive.

Dragos says that a franchise/region system wouldn't work in Romania because fans wouldn't support a region based in another town, and that's what has happened in Wales. Fans from, for example, Pontypool and Pontypridd, both clubs with great histories, refuse to support 'their' regions (Newport-Gwent and Cardiff respectively).

I hope other countries stick to their club games. In any case, I'm not convinced the regional system raises standards the way some think. Italy have moved to a regional approach with the Pro12 and I see no improvement in their national team. Meanwhile their club league has become devalued.

 

[dragos03]

The easiest way to have a few more Tier 2 clubs in the Challenge Cup would be just to remove the newly promoted Top 14 and Premiership clubs, they couldn't care less about the competition anyway and lack the squad depth to compete even if they wanted to. That would free up three spots so the minnow clubs would get a total of five, I think that's enough for the moment. In time, the bottom Pro 12 club could be removed as well, to free up an additional slot if the minnows become stronger.

Btw, I don't know if these results have been already posted somewhere on the forum but the Qualifying Competition has started last weekend with two games:
Royal Kituro (Belgium) - Fiamme Oro (Italy) 6-24
Rovigo (Italy) - GD Direito (Portugal) 29-19

Matches to be played this weekend (November 21):
VRAC (Spain) - Saracens Timisoara (Romania)
GD Direito (Portugal) - Heidelberger RK (Germany)
Royal Kituro (Belgium) -Rovigo (Italy)
Fiamme Oro (Italy) - Mogliano (Italy)

Some of these clubs (like Heidelberger RK) had their squad strengthened for the competition by loaning a few of the best players from other teams in their domestic leagues.

 

[dragos03]

Timisoara Saracens poster promoting their matches in the qualification tournament for the Challenge Cup, their first match is against Spanish champions VRAC this weekend.

In other news, Moldova lost a match against Poland in the third division of European rugby (18-14) and have lost realistic chances to promote to Six Nations B. The Moldovans claim they were robbed by the referee to deny them promotion and help Belgium, a much wealthier country where World Rugby wants to develop the game. This video made by a Moldovan fan seems to show that Moldova scored a try in the last action, they would have won the match if it was given:
[video]https://www.facebook.com/GoldTeam198385/videos/908841382499164/[/video]

 

[FrankHeaven]

Shame for them. Moldova seems to punch well above their weight in rugby. Is the game strong there because of its proximity to Romania?

 

[Vladimir12]

https://www.facebook.com/GoldTeam198385/videos/908841382499164/[/video]

Referee showed that Poles placed a hand under the ball and has not been try.

He was nearby and there is no reason not to believe him.

Penalty imposed for the fight for the ball at the player who is out of the game.

I think it was.

Although I am personally more sympathetic Moldova than Poland.

 

[dragos03]

Shame for them. Moldova seems to punch well above their weight in rugby. Is the game strong there because of its proximity to Romania?

Moldovan players have easy access to the leagues in Romania and Russia, both emerging professional championships. It's also very easy for most Moldovans to get a Romanian passport, which makes them EU citizens able to play in any of the Western leagues. They tend to punch above their weight because they can usually assemble a first XV with mostly pro players from Romania and Russia, with a few stars like Vadim Cobilas (Sale Sharks) or Dumitru Arhip (Ospreys). Their opponents (Sweden, Poland, etc) are mostly amateurs. Moldova play a very forward-oriented style, similar to the way Romania used to play. Against Poland, Moldova started with two props in the back row and a flanker at 13

Regarding the disallowed Moldovan try, their players claim the grounding was good. I guess we'll never know without a better TV angle.

 

[Vladimir12]

Shame for them. Moldova seems to punch well above their weight in rugby. Is the game strong there because of its proximity to Romania?

The whole history of rugby in Moldova took place in Tiraspol.

The team from Tiraspol has played in the top league of the USSR championship.

Tiraspol - the first champion of the USSR Rugby League.

But now is not the Tiraspol in Moldova, it is the unrecognized Transnistrian republic.

Rugby is not there as far as I know.

 

[FrankHeaven]

The whole history of rugby in Moldova took place in Tiraspol.

The team from Tiraspol has played in the top league of the USSR championship.

Tiraspol - the first champion of the USSR Rugby League.

Whatever happened to rugby league in Moldova (and Russia)? I remember Moldova played in the 1995 Rugby League World Cup (for emerging nations).

 

[Vladimir12]

Whatever happened to rugby league in Moldova (and Russia)? I remember Moldova played in the 1995 Rugby League World Cup (for emerging nations).

They were mostly players from Tiraspol.

They played in the top league of the USSR championship rugby, and then moved to rugby league.

In the finals they defeated the Moscow magicians.

Magee played in England by the way ...

 

[FrankHeaven]

In the finals they defeated the Moscow magicians.

Magee played in England by the way ...

View attachment 4085

Interesting bit of history. I take it rugby league is not so popular now in Russia? I see results from the Russia RL team occasionally, but they don't seem too strong. In the 1990s, it briefly looked as though league would overtake union in Russia.