Romain Poite's credibility

[Tony Manx]

Good lord.......even the kiwis have not bleated this long after losing!

 

[Ospervat]

Granted the horse has bolted and SA could not possibly hope to win the game with 5 mins left but...........

Minute 75 - Poite gives penalty advantage to SA with Bosch off side at the breakdown. The off side position is 20 meters in from touch and 12 meters from the try line.

Reinach takes a quick tap and dots down on the line. Poite does not stay at the penalty mark but watches Reinach take the tap and follows play. Calls time off. First question to TMO is try yes or no. TMO confirms it is a try. Second question did he take it from the mark - well obviously he didn't because Reinach was a meter in front of Poite and Poite already knows this because he watched him take the tap.

Poite then indicates the mark as being 15 meters in from touch and 15 meters from the try line not where the off side infringement took place.

Can anybody shed any light on the logic of Poite's decisions here. Why check with the TMO on try or not if he already knows it wasn't taken from the mark. Why indicate the mark as being somewhere completely different to the spot of the offside infringement.

Kaplans comment :-

"I thought Poites decision to disallow Reinachs try was a poor call. Quite clearly the place of penalty is at the place of infringement, not in the exact place the referee happens to be standing. Reinach took it from the correct place or close enough and didn’t appear to be ahead of the place of infringement. We see this every game with a quick tap where the half back anticipates where the referee is going to give the mark"


Thought so!

 

[Ospervat]

Good lord.......even the kiwis have not bleated this long after losing!

Not bleating about the loss - its about poor decisions by international refs who can deliberately or inadvertently decide the outcome of a test match. This week it was SA, next week it could be your side. It's about quality control to ensure a fair result.

SA played poorly and they didn't deserve the win either way but to turn a blind eye to ref incompetence would be foolish and not in the best interests of the game.

Poites performance is most worthy of scrutiny and his failures need to be brought to the attention of the board of referees, team management and public at large.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Good lord.......even the kiwis have not bleated this long after losing!

And it's not going to stop.

Every damn year there is at least one test match where we get a ref that makes awful decisions on the field. And this is now the third test in a row where Monsieur Poite has been utterly crap, yet he's still on the elite panel of referees.

 

[Peat]

While I love that rugby in general has a strong culture of taking responsibility for one's losses and looking for ways to improve them rather than just saying it's all the ref's fault, there is a downside, and the downside is people get dismissed as whiners when trying to point out poor reffing performances, and when we refuse to acknowledge poor reffing performances we fail to tackle the fact that across the game reffing isn't good enough.

 

[Tony Manx]

While I love that rugby in general has a strong culture of taking responsibility for one's losses and looking for ways to improve them rather than just saying it's all the ref's fault, there is a downside, and the downside is people get dismissed as whiners when trying to point out poor reffing performances, and when we refuse to acknowledge poor reffing performances we fail to tackle the fact that across the game reffing isn't good enough.

I get that Poite had a bad game, I get that he made mistakes, and I get he was punished last year by not being given a EOYT other than out in the Pacific, I get all that and can agree!

But the endless "He has got it in for me" paranoia is ridiculous!!

 

[TRF_heineken]

I get that Poite had a bad game, I get that he made mistakes, and I get he was punished last year by not being given a EOYT other than out in the Pacific, I get all that and can agree!

But the endless "He has got it in for me" paranoia is ridiculous!!

You get all that. You get that it is now repeated bad performances by him? You get that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes?

It's not paranoia. If countless people agree that Poite is crap, and that he consistently has bad games when one team is involved and ALWAYS gets the bad calls against them, then there should be some introspection on Monsieur Poite's side and not on the entire Nation of South Africa and all the neutrals who seem to agree with us.

 

[OhDannyBoy]

You get all that. You get that it is now repeated bad performances by him? You get that he doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes?

It's not paranoia. If countless people agree that Poite is crap, and that he consistently has bad games when one team is involved and ALWAYS gets the bad calls against them, then there should be some introspection on Monsieur Poite's side and not on the entire Nation of South Africa and all the neutrals who seem to agree with us.

You've just nailed what Tony Manx can't seem to rap his head around. Statistically, Poite is poison for South Africa. It's not just the results, it's the consistent bizarre and controversial decisions and big calls that he makes, that always go against one side in particular. I believe in coincidences, but only to a point.
I used to think he was just incompetent, but on looking again at the game recording, his body language on Saturday speaks volumes. Watch it again with hindsight now, and be amazed.

- - - Updated - - -

While I love that rugby in general has a strong culture of taking responsibility for one's losses and looking for ways to improve them rather than just saying it's all the ref's fault, there is a downside, and the downside is people get dismissed as whiners when trying to point out poor reffing performances, and when we refuse to acknowledge poor reffing performances we fail to tackle the fact that across the game reffing isn't good enough.

This is what I agree with completely.
The players, teams, coaches, and fans are held to high standards.
Wanting a similar high standard from the refs is normal, and should be encouraged.
I'm not sure I understand the mentality of some here seeking to dissuade the discussion of a referees continued inept performances by criticizing it as "bleating".

 

[Tony Manx]

You've just nailed what Tony Manx can't seem to rap his head around.....,,,,,,,,".

I do not do "rap" I leave that to a much younger generation!

 

[OhDannyBoy]

I do not do "rap" I leave that to a much younger generation!

That is true....I meant wrap.

 

[smartcooky]

While I love that rugby in general has a strong culture of taking responsibility for one's losses and looking for ways to improve them rather than just saying it's all the ref's fault, there is a downside, and the downside is people get dismissed as whiners when trying to point out poor reffing performances, and when we refuse to acknowledge poor reffing performances we fail to tackle the fact that across the game reffing isn't good enough.

^^^THIS!! Just absolutely this!!!!

 

[Ospervat]

Poite stuffed up his job as touch judge yesterday Eng v Ire. Had to be replaced at half time.
Possibly something to do with Young's HUGE forward pass to May right in front of him and he didn't spot it, leading to a try which became disallowed in the end. Luckily Veldsman as TMO decided to check the pass for himself without being asked by Owens ( because he wasn't advised by Poite that it might need checking)

Poite - your days are numbered.

 

[McTallshort]

Poite stuffed up his job as touch judge yesterday Eng v Ire. Had to be replaced at half time.
Possibly something to do with Young's HUGE forward pass to May right in front of him and he didn't spot it, leading to a try which became disallowed in the end. Luckily Veldsman as TMO decided to check the pass for himself without being asked by Owens ( because he wasn't advised by Poite that it might need checking)

Poite - your days are numbered.

I thought the purpose of the TMO was to reveiw questions from the ref? Didnt realise they could just butt in and overule everyone.

 

[Mcfadden]

I remember something like that happening in an All Blacks game (possibly against the Springboks in 2011?). The referee asked a question, but the TMO commented on something else which meant it wasn't a try. The commentators were bleating that you can't do that. I mean, it's a good use of technology, but I'm not sure if it's technically allowed.

 

[Ospervat]

In yesterday's incident it appeared as though the pass was fwd on the action replay. Veldsman being the consummate professional advised Owens CHECK CHECK, meaning he wanted to check the last two movements before the conversion is taken. Owens explained that if the ref gets a call from the TMO before the kick is taken he has to go back and check. If the conversion is already taken then they cannot go back and check. It was Poite's job to advise the ref that the last pass was possibly fwd and was worth a TMO check. Bottom line is he didn't do his job. When looking at the replay it is unbelievable that Poite didn't see it - he was perfectly placed!!!

So I guess we need this system of checks in the interests of fairness. Poite's errors of judgement have cost teams in the past and as long as he is out there he will continue to foul things up.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Some England fans are upset about the two TMO calls yesterday and I can see their point; however both calls were correct and that's what really counts. If our only complaint is "it shouldn't have been a try but if procedure had been followed correctly we'd have got away with it", that's not really a massive injustice.

 

[ncurd]

Some England fans are upset about the two TMO calls yesterday and I can see their point; however both calls were correct and that's what really counts. If our only complaint is "it shouldn't have been a try but if procedure had been followed correctly we'd have got away with it", that's not really a massive injustice.

Im just not convinced the next time it happens to us the TMO will quite be as delligent. Look back to the Wales game in the 6 nations where a try on replay was quite clearly wrongly given. Im happy if this things get picked up all the time but they dont and very rarely do. If its a change that does happen im all for it.

Poite was taken off dur to injury not ineptitude.

 

[Tony Manx]

Poite stuffed up his job as touch judge yesterday Eng v Ire. Had to be replaced at half time.
Possibly something to do with Young's HUGE forward pass to May right in front of him and he didn't spot it, leading to a try which became disallowed in the end. Luckily Veldsman as TMO decided to check the pass for himself without being asked by Owens ( because he wasn't advised by Poite that it might need checking)

Poite - your days are numbered.

Seen some crap written on here and a lot has been about Poite but this takes the biscuit !

Presumably you did not see him getting his ankle strapped, and you did not see him about three yards in front of the pass whilst the ref was in direct line?

Difficult I suppose with the one eye!!

That checking is part of the TMO's remit !

 

[Every Time Ref]

Im just not convinced the next time it happens to us the TMO will quite be as delligent. Look back to the Wales game in the 6 nations where a try on replay was quite clearly wrongly given. Im happy if this things get picked up all the time but they dont and very rarely do. If its a change that does happen im all for it.

Poite was taken off dur to injury not ineptitude.

Agree it's very frustrating when it's not applied consistently. The IRB needs to set out the TMOs responsibilities clearly and make sure they are followed consistently - when they are allowed to intervene, concerning which offences and for how long. And just as important is making sure that they actually do so, which I think is your point. If the TMO is allowed to rule on every aspect of play within 2 phases, then every time he gets a chance to check, he should be going back 2 phases and checking it all

 

[gaston le gaff]

i do believe Poite has been given all the England games !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! oh dear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! frustation in Blighty!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!