Ring fencing premiership and championship

[TRF_Olyy]

Inevitable but still a **** take

 

[RedruthRFC]

As long as Doncaster or Ealing finish top and Cinderford get a top 2 finish in L1 then I'm happy as it would mean a Forest of Dean derby in the second tier next season

Just read on Twitter that both Donny and Ealing have failed their ground audit, so failing a successful appeal, nobody's going up this year (https://www.englandrugby.com/news/a...championship-clubs-minimum-standards-criteria) and accordingly, only one club will be coming up from N1. All symptomatic of the fact that there's nobody in the Championship currently in a position to become the 14 Premiership team IMO.

 

[Scotty]

Inevitable but still a **** take

Damn i was really hoping for Doncaster to come up, we have Newcastle and Sale but no Yorkshire teams. Geographically for England it is the best way to grow the sport there and bring in new fans. Also a big catchment area and surely on winning the championship(if they did) they could arrange a deal somehow

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Inevitable but still a **** take

Now I know nothing re RFU funding or how more lucrative my "groundbreaking" / "Poorly thought out" idea is BUT....

Doncaster, Ealing, Pirates and then one of Welsh or Scottish should be encroached on by the URC. We've got an international competition that isn't quite fit for purpose right now because we don't have enough teams to have a proper conference system. We also have a bunch of Welsh clubs who want nothing more than a link to English sides (leopards and spots). From an outside view these guys are being left out in the cold by the RFU/PRL. So give me a buzz URC and I'll make this happen.

I'd imagine the RFU would do a lot to block it and wouldn't let these players be selected by England but it'd still be an attractive stepping stone if they ended up qualifying for Europe.

So URC, give me a high paid innovation job. I might get **** done.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think the clubs would cease to exist without the RFU help, we saw that when Championship funding got slashed during the pandemic and they were on the brink - so they'd need the URC to inject cash to keep them afloat (though maybe the increased crowds and TV deals would be enough? They wouldn't be competitive without a big injection though)


It does raise an interesting point, though - can a club exist in a country but be a part of a different country's union?
Every club and player in England are registered with the RFU, can they be registered with the SRU, or WRU and play in their leagues instead?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Required Capacity for the premier league 5,000
Required capacity for the premiership 10,000

Something seems wrong

 

[Goodey]

Required Capacity for the premier league 5,000
Required capacity for the premiership 10,000

Something seems wrong

The premier league doesn't need to give the slightest **** about attendance, and hasn't for years

I'm not saying I agree with this decision, just saying it's not the same game so it's not much of a comparison. No one is paying billions to broadcast premiership rugby in India.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

The premier league doesn't need to give the slightest **** about attendance, and hasn't for years

I'm not saying I agree with this decision, just saying it's not the same game so it's not much of a comparison. No one is paying billions to broadcast premiership rugby in India.

And how would a club having a 10k stadium affect lol.

 

[Groundhog]

Ridiculous decision not to let the Championship sides in on a technicality like this. I've actually been following Ealing's fortunes a bit (read: I follow them on Twitter) and it seems like they've put a lot into assembling their squad, I know they've signed a bunch of decent Irish guys at least and now its for nought. Having a small capacity is not ideal, but by no means should it be a dealbreaker.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Ridiculous decision not to let the Championship sides in on a technicality like this. I've actually been following Ealing's fortunes a bit (read: I follow them on Twitter) and it seems like they've put a lot into assembling their squad, I know they've signed a bunch of decent Irish guys at least and now its for nought. Having a small capacity is not ideal, but by no means should it be a dealbreaker.

Eh
Ealing is just a future London Welsh waiting to happen.

At least Doncaster and Cornish Pirates are in areas that can be established.
Ealing is a plastic team with a owner with good wealth

 

[Groundhog]

Eh
Ealing is just a future London Welsh waiting to happen.

At least Doncaster and Cornish Pirates are in areas that can be established.
Ealing is a plastic team with a owner with good wealth

If they get battered they get battered and relegated. The reward still has to be there. A second professional tier is something I would love to have in our league (obviously not doable when your league draws from 5 countries) and if you cut the Championship off you're just making the Premiership a weaker product.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

If they get battered they get battered and relegated. The reward still has to be there. A second professional tier is something I would love to have in our league (obviously not doable when your league draws from 5 countries) and if you cut the Championship off you're just making the Premiership a weaker product.

Well not quite the league is ringfenced regardless of this decision to promote them so they wouldn't be relegated.
Don't disagree with the latter point cutting off the champtionship would make the Prem product weaker just that Ealing getting promoted IMO would end up being worse for the sport.

I mean Ealing was actively posting ads in SA trying to target SA's for their academy.
They have 10 SA players in their senior squad and a further 6 in their Academy setup.

 

[Groundhog]

Well not quite the league is ringfenced regardless of this decision to promote them so they wouldn't be relegated.
Don't disagree with the latter point cutting off the champtionship would make the Prem product weaker just that Ealing getting promoted IMO would end up being worse for the sport.

I mean Ealing was actively posting ads in SA trying to target SA's for their academy.
They have 10 SA players in their senior squad and a further 6 in their Academy setup.

Forgot about that ringfencing mallarkey.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Doncaster Knights Statement on RFU Minimum Standards Findings - Doncaster Knights

Please see below the statement from Doncaster Knights on yesterday’s announcement of the RFU’s Minimum Standards Criteria findings: Doncaster RFC are disappointed, dismayed and disheartened by the decision of the Rugby Football Union Board to disallow the club’s application to play in the...

www.drfc.co.uk

Looks like Donny have sourced a groundshare now,
Not sure why they applied without it before seeing as every man and his dog knew about the 10,001 minimum limit (same goes for Ealing)

Do they actually not have the financials for promotion so applied knowing they'd get rejected?
All a bit weird

 

[Which Tyler]

Might have been making a point about the silly 10k minimum.
Bring it back in the news, have pundits make a fuss, hope PRL back down (hah!)

Dangerous game though, and doomed to fail

 

[Scotty]

Doncaster Knights Statement on RFU Minimum Standards Findings - Doncaster Knights

Please see below the statement from Doncaster Knights on yesterday’s announcement of the RFU’s Minimum Standards Criteria findings: Doncaster RFC are disappointed, dismayed and disheartened by the decision of the Rugby Football Union Board to disallow the club’s application to play in the...

www.drfc.co.uk

Looks like Donny have sourced a groundshare now,
Not sure why they applied without it before seeing as every man and his dog knew about the 10,001 minimum limit (same goes for Ealing)

Do they actually not have the financials for promotion so applied knowing they'd get rejected?
All a bit weird

It is wierd but i hope it holds up as i said before there is the best location for a new team to the prem, Newcastle, Sale and Doncaster covering the North of England.

Id be gutted if ealing comes up as that would be Sarries, Quins, Lirish and Ealing all as London teams, how is that good for growing the game...

If they earn promotion then so be it but still.

 

[Stus7]

It is wierd but i hope it holds up as i said before there is the best location for a new team to the prem, Newcastle, Sale and Doncaster covering the North of England.

Id be gutted if ealing comes up as that would be Sarries, Quins, Lirish and Ealing all as London teams, how is that good for growing the game...

If they earn promotion then so be it but still.

Not just London teams. 3 west London teams.

 

[RedruthRFC]

I think the clubs would cease to exist without the RFU help, we saw that when Championship funding got slashed during the pandemic and they were on the brink - so they'd need the URC to inject cash to keep them afloat (though maybe the increased crowds and TV deals would be enough? They wouldn't be competitive without a big injection though)


It does raise an interesting point, though - can a club exist in a country but be a part of a different country's union?
Every club and player in England are registered with the RFU, can they be registered with the SRU, or WRU and play in their leagues instead?

I don't mean to be a dick, but why wouldn't they is a better question. The RFU don't have any sort of legally enforcible monopoly over rugby clubs in England. Any other union that plays in the URC could provide everything that the RFU currently provides to any club, it would be down to the club in question to decide which one would provide the best "deal" and said union to decide if they want that club to join them.

There has been talk of Cornish Pirates joining the league since the days it was called the Celtic League (which made it sound more realistic). Obviously this would get around the MSC problem for them, but have no idea how the income would stack up versus what they would receive in their first year if they were to get promoted to the Premiership. The big problem as I see it is that cutting ties with the RFU would presumably mean that if the URC didn't work out, they would be left going back to the RFU cap in hand and presumably would have to rejoin the leagues in Cornwall 2.

 

[RedruthRFC]

It is wierd but i hope it holds up as i said before there is the best location for a new team to the prem, Newcastle, Sale and Doncaster covering the North of England.

Id be gutted if ealing comes up as that would be Sarries, Quins, Lirish and Ealing all as London teams, how is that good for growing the game...

If they earn promotion then so be it but still.

I don't see what they thing an appeal with achieve other than bringing more attention to the situation unless the appeal gives them a chance to get their ducks in a row and be reassessed on the basis of their new level of preparedness. They knew the criteria, they knew they didn't meet them and chose to apply anyway. Surely an appeal is just going to confirm these facts.

I could see a legal challenge succeeding that the criteria are unreasonable, as it did for London Welsh when they got primacy of tenure thrown out as a requirement, but you don't need that long of a memory to know how that worked out for them.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Required Capacity for the premier league 5,000
Required capacity for the premiership 10,000

Something seems wrong

We had this with Scottish football about 20 years ago, a ludicrous 10k minimum (since reduced to 6k) was introduced as the league broke off and got new administrators.

The official argument was about the image of the game and needing great stadia for the brave new world. The reality was:

- preserving the position of the top tier clubs during the transition so that they aren't threatened by any club in a lower tier that might outperform them in a playoff match.

- making clubs that had invested in a stadium upgrades shortly before the transition feel better about that investment having been worthwhile.

From having skimmed the issue it just strikes me as a Tier1 union/establishment treating internal outsiders with similar contempt offered to outsiders on the international stage.