Rebels v Highlanders

[Darwin]

Important game for the Highlanders, as if they win they will make their way back into the top 6 again. It's a difficult game for the Highlanders, as they will be expected to win, but the Rebels have been very difficult to beat at home (the Waratahs game aside).

I haven't seen either side named yet, but by the sounds of it the Highlanders don't have any major injury concerns, so we may see the same side that beat the Cheetahs last week (though Donnelly may get a start at lock). The Rebels apparently are close to full fitness as well, with only Frier, O'Niell, and Huxley ruled out.

 

[dan the man]

There seems to be alot of talk about about the Highlanders needing to get bonus points (4 tries). I really hope that they just get out there and play the rugby that they are comfortable with, and if they get a bonus point then thats all it should be... 'a bonus'

I think your right about Donnelly, although Hoeata did have a very strong performance against the Cheetahs

 

[Larksea]

Hoeata's in great form and they should just continue to rotate their forwards 4-8 to make sure none of them are getting overworked. Hoeata can play 6 and Thompson 7 or even 8 if manu needs a break.

Highlanders do need a bonus point from this game but not by throwing the ball around every chance they get. They will earn a bonus point by holding posession and being patient on attack drawing defenders in then releasing the ball to the likes of Treeby, Ben smith & Poki who will do the job on attack if they have the space they need. Last week they tried too much and missed out on the bonus point and gave the cheetahs a chance to win the game when if they had just been patient the win and bonus point would have come easy.

 

[Amobokoboko]

I reckon the Highlanders should be able to win this one as they have been performing consistent lately

 

[Darwin]

Highlanders:
Ben Smith, Kade Poki, Kendrick Lynn, Shaun Treeby, Siale Piutau, Colin Slade, Aaron Smith, Nasi Manu, Alando Soakai, Adam Thomson, Josh Bekhuis, Jarrad Hoeata, Chris King, Jason Rutledge, Jamie Mackintosh (captain).
Reserves: Brayden Mitchell, David Te Moana, Tom Donnelly, Nick Crosswell, Jimmy Cowan, Robbie Robinson, James Paterson.

Rebels:
Richard Kingi, Lachlan Mitchell, Mark Gerrard, Stirling Mortlock (captain), Cooper Vuna, Danny Cipriani, Nick Phipps, Gareth Delve (vc), Michael Lipman, Jarrod Saffy, Hugh Pyle, Alister Campbell, Greg Somerville, Ged Robinson, Rodney Blake.
Reserves: Heath Tessmann, Laurie Weeks, Adam Byrnes, Tim Davidson, Hoani Macdonald, Luke Rooney, Afusipa Taumoepeau.

One change to the starting lineup, with Aaron Smith getting the start ahead of Cowan. Bit of a risk resting Cowan, but Smith has looked pretty comfortable at Super Rugby level, and indeed will probably even deliver quicker ball to the backs than Cowan. Slightly surprised to see Donnelly still on the bench - it certainly won't be doing his AB's chances any good being stuck on the Highlanders bench (not that his form really warrants his inclusion ahead of Hoeata or Bekhuis).

Quite a few changes to the Rebels team. The backline has been rearranged, with Gerrard at centre, Mitchell moving to the wing, and Kingi moving back to fullback. Blake gets his second start of the season at loose-head prop, and interesting to see they have a 5/2 split on the bench.

Quitely confident in a Highlanders win, though they can't avoid to take the Rebels lightly. The Highlanders will again focus on the breakdown, but I'd imagine they will be tempted to get the ball to Kade Poki as much as possible, as he has been in outstanding form, and Vuna is pretty weak defensively.

 

[ranger]

Highlanders:
Ben Smith, Kade Poki, Kendrick Lynn, Shaun Treeby, Siale Piutau, Colin Slade, Aaron Smith, Nasi Manu, Alando Soakai, Adam Thomson, Josh Bekhuis, Jarrad Hoeata, Chris King, Jason Rutledge, Jamie Mackintosh (captain).
Reserves: Brayden Mitchell, David Te Moana, Tom Donnelly, Nick Crosswell, Jimmy Cowan, Robbie Robinson, James Paterson.

Rebels:
Richard Kingi, Lachlan Mitchell, Mark Gerrard, Stirling Mortlock (captain), Cooper Vuna, Danny Cipriani, Nick Phipps, Gareth Delve (vc), Michael Lipman, Jarrod Saffy, Hugh Pyle, Alister Campbell, Greg Somerville, Ged Robinson, Rodney Blake.
Reserves: Heath Tessmann, Laurie Weeks, Adam Byrnes, Tim Davidson, Hoani Macdonald, Luke Rooney, Afusipa Taumoepeau.

One change to the starting lineup, with Aaron Smith getting the start ahead of Cowan. Bit of a risk resting Cowan, but Smith has looked pretty comfortable at Super Rugby level, and indeed will probably even deliver quicker ball to the backs than Cowan. Slightly surprised to see Donnelly still on the bench - it certainly won't be doing his AB's chances any good being stuck on the Highlanders bench (not that his form really warrants his inclusion ahead of Hoeata or Bekhuis).

Quite a few changes to the Rebels team. The backline has been rearranged, with Gerrard at centre, Mitchell moving to the wing, and Kingi moving back to fullback. Blake gets his second start of the season at loose-head prop, and interesting to see they have a 5/2 split on the bench.

Quitely confident in a Highlanders win, though they can't avoid to take the Rebels lightly. The Highlanders will again focus on the breakdown, but I'd imagine they will be tempted to get the ball to Kade Poki as much as possible, as he has been in outstanding form, and Vuna is pretty weak defensively.

I would trade both Eaton and Keats for Smith in a heartbeat..

 

[Shaggy]

Highlanders:
Ben Smith, Kade Poki, Kendrick Lynn, Shaun Treeby, Siale Piutau, Colin Slade, Aaron Smith, Nasi Manu, Alando Soakai, Adam Thomson, Josh Bekhuis, Jarrad Hoeata, Chris King, Jason Rutledge, Jamie Mackintosh (captain).
Reserves: Brayden Mitchell, David Te Moana, Tom Donnelly, Nick Crosswell, Jimmy Cowan, Robbie Robinson, James Paterson.

Rebels:
Richard Kingi, Lachlan Mitchell, Mark Gerrard, Stirling Mortlock (captain), Cooper Vuna, Danny Cipriani, Nick Phipps, Gareth Delve (vc), Michael Lipman, Jarrod Saffy, Hugh Pyle, Alister Campbell, Greg Somerville, Ged Robinson, Rodney Blake.
Reserves: Heath Tessmann, Laurie Weeks, Adam Byrnes, Tim Davidson, Hoani Macdonald, Luke Rooney, Afusipa Taumoepeau.

One change to the starting lineup, with Aaron Smith getting the start ahead of Cowan. Bit of a risk resting Cowan, but Smith has looked pretty comfortable at Super Rugby level, and indeed will probably even deliver quicker ball to the backs than Cowan. Slightly surprised to see Donnelly still on the bench - it certainly won't be doing his AB's chances any good being stuck on the Highlanders bench (not that his form really warrants his inclusion ahead of Hoeata or Bekhuis).

Quite a few changes to the Rebels team. The backline has been rearranged, with Gerrard at centre, Mitchell moving to the wing, and Kingi moving back to fullback. Blake gets his second start of the season at loose-head prop, and interesting to see they have a 5/2 split on the bench.

Quitely confident in a Highlanders win, though they can't avoid to take the Rebels lightly. The Highlanders will again focus on the breakdown, but I'd imagine they will be tempted to get the ball to Kade Poki as much as possible, as he has been in outstanding form, and Vuna is pretty weak defensively.

Interesting call to rest Cowan, but they've got to do it at some stage I guess ... I think the Highlanders will win as well, but the Rebels are stringing together a few wins (particularly at home), so who knows

 

[Darwin]

I would trade both Eaton and Keats for Smith in a heartbeat..

Yeah, I was stoked when the Highlanders signed Smith. He's certainly played well in his cameos this year, and the fact his style of play contrasts that of Cowan's is also a bonus. It's about time the Highlanders started poaching some talent from the Canes region.... other teams have been doing it for years!

 

[Shaggy]

Yeah, I was stoked when the Highlanders signed Smith. He's certainly played well in his cameos this year, and the fact his style of play contrasts that of Cowan's is also a bonus. It's about time the Highlanders started poaching some talent from the Canes region.... other teams have been doing it for years!

:lol: I think the Highlanders and the Otago teams have done pretty well from the Canes (and other) regions over the years ... although I believe that the current Canes captain (Andrew Hore) is originally from Otago

... Smith certainly deserves a chance to start - he played pretty well for NZ Maori last year too didn't he?

 

[Darwin]

:lol: I think the Highlanders and the Otago teams have done pretty well from the Canes (and other) regions over the years ... although I believe that the current Canes captain (Andrew Hore) is originally from Otago

... Smith certainly deserves a chance to start - he played pretty well for NZ Maori last year too didn't he?

Yeah, Smith played well with the Maori team last year - fortunately (for the Highlanders) Jamie Joseph liked what he saw when he was coaching the Maori team and probably convinced him (and Hoeata) to come down to the Highlanders with him.

The Highlanders and Otago used to be good at getting quality players from other regions, however over the last ten years or so we have been very poor in this regard. Sure the Highlanders have recruited a number of players in draft, but these have generally been journeyman players, rather than quality young players....where Canterbury got a Robbie Fruean and Zac Guildford we got a Jason Shoemark and Fetu'u Vainikolo....

 

[Shaggy]

Yeah, Smith played well with the Maori team last year - fortunately (for the Highlanders) Jamie Joseph liked what he saw when he was coaching the Maori team and probably convinced him (and Hoeata) to come down to the Highlanders with him.

The Highlanders and Otago used to be good at getting quality players from other regions, however over the last ten years or so we have been very poor in this regard. Sure the Highlanders have recruited a number of players in draft, but these have generally been journeyman players, rather than quality young players....where Canterbury got a Robbie Fruean and Zac Guildford we got a Jason Shoemark and Fetu'u Vainikolo....

Yeah, well I don't want to divert the thread too much, but isn't Thomson originally from Canterbury? ... people forget that Fruean was getting splinters in his backside when he could make the bench for the Canes

 

[Darwin]

Yeah, well I don't want to divert the thread too much, but isn't Thomson originally from Canterbury? ... people forget that Fruean was getting splinters in his backside when he could make the bench for the Canes

Yep, and McCaw is from Otago... wanna swap?

Though Thomson went to school in Christchurch, he wasn't really picked by Otago as a talented young player. He came down to Dunedin to do a PE degree at uni, and played rugby for the University A. It took him a few years to make his way into the Otago team (debuted in 2004), a few more to make it into the Highlanders (debuted 2006), and a few more years before he made the AB's for the first-time (debut 2008). (Likewise McCaw wasn't really poached by Canterbury, but rather went to Lincoln Uni and got selected for Canterbury from there..)

My point is that Otago & the Highlanders (at least over recent years) haven't specially targeted young players and recruited them into the region. Don't get me wrong, I certainly wasn't having a go at Canterbury and the Crusaders - indeed I am envious of there ability to recruit quality young players, and more importantly there ability to get the best out of these players... I wish Otago and the Highlanders had a system like that!

 

[ranger]

Yeah, well I don't want to divert the thread too much, but isn't Thomson originally from Canterbury? ... people forget that Fruean was getting splinters in his backside when he could make the bench for the Canes

Other people forget that he was 20 years old at that stage and that even Dan Carter had to bide his time and learn from veterans above him when he was a youngster. Fruean had just recovered from heart surgery and he was fast tracked into the Hurricanes squad without having to re earn his spot. Fruean may have had to keep the bench warm for a while or play a bit more wing than he was keen on, but i think learning from Conrad Smith and picking up some of the clever nuances from his game would have been incredibly worth it in the long run.

 

[Shaggy]

Other people forget that he was 20 years old at that stage and that even Dan Carter had to bide his time and learn from veterans above him when he was a youngster. Fruean had just recovered from heart surgery and he was fast tracked into the Hurricanes squad without having to re earn his spot. Fruean may have had to keep the bench warm for a while or play a bit more wing than he was keen on, but i think learning from Conrad Smith and picking up some of the clever nuances from his game would have been incredibly worth it in the long run.

Sure, i hear what you're saying, but if your offered a chance to start as opposed to siting on the bench behind the All Black encumbant, which one are you going to take? Conrad Smith is still the first choice run on 13 for the Canes (when he's no franchises tat injured), I doubt that Fruean would be being talked about as a potential All Black if he'd stayed with Wellington and the Hurricanes.

It's a fact of life that players are going to shift around to take advantage of what's best for them ... all NZ franchises get players from outside their region, its good for the players, and it keeps the players in NZ, so i don't see what the big deal about all of this poaching stuff

EDIT:- Dan Carter was offered a contract with the Bulls early in his career, but turned it down, because he was promised and received regular game time for the Crusaders, despite them having Mehrtens and Mauger at 10 and 12 at the time

 

[ranger]

Sure, i hear what you're saying, but if your offered a chance to start as opposed to siting on the bench behind the All Black encumbant, which one are you going to take? Conrad Smith is still the first choice run on 13 for the Canes (when he's no franchises tat injured), I doubt that Fruean would be being talked about as a potential All Black if he'd stayed with Wellington and the Hurricanes.

It's a fact of life that players are going to shift around to take advantage of what's best for them ... all NZ franchises get players from outside their region, its good for the players, and it keeps the players in NZ, so i don't see what the big deal about all of this poaching stuff

If im 20 years old, id probably try stay on the bench learning from the worlds best for a couple seasons. Its not as straight forward a decision as you make out, Beauden Barrett was offered a shot at the starting 10 role at the Blues but turned it down for a wider training squad contract. Sam Cane has stuck with the Cheifs, Carter stuck it out behind Mehrtens, Weepu behind Spice etc.. I think that its really a wise decision to learn first and jump later, Fruean may not have been in All Black reckoning so early if he stayed, but that was nowhere near guaranteed by moving.

I really don't think this poaching buisness is as inherently good for all involved as you do either, getting the responsibility of starting too early can ruin a player, like it did with Gopperth. So it can be bad for the player.
Its bad for teams as coaches try to build their sides around players, they look to the future and put plans and scheduals in place to acclimatise their players and work them into things, then all of a sudden another club pops up offering a role better role (that they invariably arent ready for) and that sides plans are scuttled. Im really not a fan of this taking young players as it messes everything about.

Transfers should have to go through a NZRU committee which looks at the needs of the players and the benefits to each team and then grants permission. I can understand an older player whos not getting a look in moving, but a young guy who is not starting because hes being groomed for the future is different. Going around undercutting each others young talent will prove counter productive in the long run.

 

[Shaggy]

If im 20 years old, id probably try stay on the bench learning from the worlds best for a couple seasons. Its not as straight forward a decision as you make out, Beauden Barrett was offered a shot at the starting 10 role at the Blues but turned it down for a wider training squad contract. Sam Cane has stuck with the Cheifs, Carter stuck it out behind Mehrtens, Weepu behind Spice etc.. I think that its really a wise decision to learn first and jump later, Fruean may not have been in All Black reckoning so early if he stayed, but that was nowhere near guaranteed by moving.

I really don't think this poaching buisness is as inherently good for all involved as you do either, getting the responsibility of starting too early can ruin a player, like it did with Gopperth. So it can be bad for the player.
Its bad for teams as coaches try to build their sides around players, they look to the future and put plans and scheduals in place to acclimatise their players and work them into things, then all of a sudden another club pops up offering a role better role (that they invariably arent ready for) and that sides plans are scuttled. Im really not a fan of this taking young players as it messes everything about.

Transfers should have to go through a NZRU committee which looks at the needs of the players and the benefits to each team and then grants permission. I can understand an older player whos not getting a look in moving, but a young guy who is not starting because hes being groomed for the future is different. Going around undercutting each others young talent will prove counter productive in the long run.

Once again, I hear what you're are saying Ranger, and I don't necessarily disagree with you with what you are saying regarding what is good for a young player, but it's human nature to look at your options and decide what you think is best for you. While your committee idea has some merit, it doesn't spot the player taking the overseas option.

I disagree with the undercutting of others young talent too ... if one franchise has plenty of talent in the inside backs, another in the loose forwards, and another in the outside backs, it make sense to shift these players around, so that the best talent gets to play ... it's in no franchise's interest to treat young talent as a short term project, and the franchises need to look after young players no matter where they are from - there's nothing to stop them being mentored at any franchise.

Anyway, happy to discuss further, but this probably isn't the thread to do it

 

[Darwin]

Bad news for the Rebels, with Mortlock ruled out of the game with a hip strain. James Hilgendorf replaces him at 12. I bet the Highlanders midfield will be looking forward to this game, with a defensively suspect Cipriani at 10, and both Hilgendorf and Gerrard playing out of position in the midfield...

 

[Draggs]

Delve is the captain, according to the BBC.
All the best to him, hope he has another great game.

 

[Shaggy]

Bad news for the Rebels, with Mortlock ruled out of the game with a hip strain. James Hilgendorf replaces him at 12. I bet the Highlanders midfield will be looking forward to this game, with a defensively suspect Cipriani at 10, and both Hilgendorf and Gerrard playing out of position in the midfield...

... and Nasi Manu running down the same channel I suspect

 

[Darwin]

Delve is the captain, according to the BBC.
All the best to him, hope he has another great game.

Yep, he's a great choice as captain as well, as he leads by example. He's certainly one of the form number 8's in the competition.