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RBS 6 Nations - England vs Wales - 25/02/2012, 16:00

Well they went into administration, mainly because of what they were paying and giving (luxuries e.g. cars) the Canadians. The holding company with the rights to the RGC 1404 went bust but somehow the name still exists :s. The WRU bailed them out and named them something like North Wales Regional Development Team XV. But then all of a sudden the 1404 name was resurrected.

Rygbi Gogledd Cymru means Rugby North Wales which is where the RGC comes from and the 1404 is when Owain Glyndwr became Prince of Wales altho I would much rather they just use the Rygbi Cogledd Cymru name instead of the acronym.
 
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Well I've left it till this late to have my say on the game because I knew there would be a huge backlash from the end result and the match winning/losing decision made by the TMO. I began to power through the many pages of Rants but seems to be the same things being said, So I stopped at page 50 odd and going to have my say.

All in All, one hell of a match and was exactly as I expected. A bruising encounter full of errors but ultimately one that left the viewers on the edge of their seats.

Firstly, I'm gonna get my view over and done with..... The diss-allowed try. For me, without the TMO I would have said try time for England (quite frankly was a great effort on Strettle's part). The Linesman must have been daydreaming to not call it there and then - He had the best view in the house. As soon as Steve Walsh went to TMO I got the feeling that the evidence would be inconclusive - due to the number of Welsh defenders that Scrabbled to prevent the try. For me, had Steve Walsh had gone with benefit of the doubt (without using the TMO), the try should have been given. But considering he bottled it and left the decision to someone else showed how poor of a game he had (He missed things on both sides throughout the match).

For those that claim that the welsh came with a level of arrogance, then Its the English media's doing. I may be rather tunnel visioned with what I read, but all the "arrogance" was written within English press claiming to quote the Welsh team in the run up to the match. As per usual I presume the western mail did their usual antics of stirring a huge caldron of steaming s!£t (but we all expect that anyways). The real rugby fans that actually follow rugby (and don't just watch it as an excuse to get p!s!ed) were never doubting a highly contested match - quite frankly England at HQ is a hell of a task for any side!!!

England have lots of things to be optimistic about, regardless of the result. Lancaster has done a superb job of developing a team spirit within the camp, and their willingness to put their bodies on the line for each other is evident in their defensive efforts. At first I didn't think the Center combination of the two bruising "crash ballers" Tuilagi and Barrett would work, but having Farrell orchestrating the show really seemed to work (Superb game from him and a turning point was certainly he's substitution). I'd like to see the press Prevent themselves from putting him on a Pedestal though, let him play and don't hype him up and pile on the pressure (The guy is clearly talented, let him play rugby!!!). For me, If England are to keep progressing as they are, I'd keep Lancaster in charge on a permanent basis (why ruin a good formula that is evidently starting to develop nicely)

Sam Warburton, what an absolute work horse!! He amazes me every game how much he puts his body on the line. That Bootlace tackle on Tuilagi was a showstopping moment for me. I thought the Pack in general had a very good game. Considering the injuries to the second rows, Ian Evans and Alun Wyn worked nicely as a paring (I know they play together at the ospreys but Club and Country are two different matters). I've read lots criticizing Ken Owens' performance, I honestly thought he had a solid game. There were instances where the line out creaked, but that was mostly down to England being extremely competitive.

So Italy next, I do hope there are no unforced changes to the side. Consistency is key to developing a winning habit. A nice weekend off will cure the bumps and bruises. If Fit, I hope Roberts is not used as a battering ram like Saturday. Its just a lazy 1 dimensional play from us, and we play better when his power is combines with some dummy lines to draw in defenders. I'm really looking forward to the Italian Match. Italy are progressing nicely (for 50 mins on the weekend they matched Ireland) and will certainly prove a worthy opponent towards a Welsh team High on Confidence.

Dare I say If Roberts is deemed unfit, then a certain Orange one may make a Cameo???? (nice touches in his games at 12 for the Blues :p :p :p)
 
Rygbi Gogledd Cymru means Rugby North Wales which is where the RGC comes from and the 1404 is the birth of Owain Glyndwr became Prince of Wales altho I would much rather they just use the Rygbi Cogledd Cymru name instead of the acronym.

Yep I knew that and have posted it a few times on the board for others when they ask. They are being re-branded at the end of the season when they enter Div 1 East.
 
Yep I knew that and have posted it a few times on the board for others when they ask. They are being re-branded at the end of the season when they enter Div 1 East.

Lets hope they make a success of this and it works out well for Wales in getting more players up north into the game.
 
I think rugby in the NH as a whole is looking very strong for the future. Wales, England, France and Scotland are on the up, and Ireland could easily join them with a few changes / new coach. Italy is stil improving imo, but are at risk of getting left behind by the rest even so.

This is something I've been meaning to mention but haven't got round to.

At the moment the 6N has France and Wales who are very good sides. France on their day have in the past beaten 3N opposition and with their current squad I think they'd be confident against anyone at home besides a full strength All Blacks. If Wales continue on the trajectory they're on at the moment, they could well be in that position come the Autumn Internationals.

The next tier you have Ireland, who have the ability, again, to beat both SA and Australia. If they find some centres they'll be a seriously dangerous outfit, especially at home. England we know are in a rebuilding phase, but there's a lot of potential there and let's face it, England are never abad side.

Lower down we have Scotland, who form wise are in the same place as always. However, for the first time since I can remember, Scotland look like they have the ability to score tries against good opposition. Given that they always have a good 9, good second row and top class back row, there is a chance for Scotland to develop into a really prickly outfit - I don't just mean one that can win the odd game in the rain at Murrayfield, I mean one that can make any side visiting Murrayfield in any weather have a hard time.

That leaves Italy, who like Scotland have the same run of form as usual, but to me just look like a class below the rest. People keep saying Italian rugby is improving, but they should never accept a stuffing like Dublin on Saturday or Twickenham last year. It may be difficult for the Italians to stomach, but the style of rugby they play is desperate for a 10 who can kick properly. There's no point in having a pack that wins at the set piece if there's no 10 to take advantage of it by kicking goals and kicking territory. Until this is sorted, they'll continue to lose matches. Furthermore, they'll continue to lose if they keep missing so many tackles.

Italian players all play Heineken Cup rugby, and they all play regularly in a top league on a weekly basis. It's getting to the stage now where the old excuses are running out.
 
Firstly, I'm gonna get my view over and done with..... The diss-allowed try. For me, without the TMO I would have said try time for England

For those that claim that the welsh came with a level of arrogance, then Its the English media's doing. I may be rather tunnel visioned with what I read, but all the "arrogance" was written within English press claiming to quote the Welsh team in the run up to the match. As per usual I presume the western mail did their usual antics of stirring a huge caldron of steaming s!£t (but we all expect that anyways). The real rugby fans that actually follow rugby (and don't just watch it as an excuse to get p!s!ed) were never doubting a highly contested match - quite frankly England at HQ is a hell of a task for any side!!!

England have lots of things to be optimistic about, regardless of the result. Lancaster has done a superb job of developing a team spirit within the camp, and their willingness to put their bodies on the line for each other is evident in their
Sam Warburton, what an absolute work horse!! So Italy next, I do hope there are no unforced changes to the side. Consistency is key to developing a winning habit. A nice weekend off will cure the bumps and bruises. If Fit, I hope Roberts is not used as a battering ram like Saturday. Its just a lazy 1 dimensional play from us, and we play better when his power is combines with some dummy lines to draw in defenders. :p :p :p)

Yep I agree with all of this, the Welsh supporters I spoke to in the pubs prior to the match were all expecting a tough contest. For me both teams played well and the game could have gone either way. I think it was a try but hey sometimes in close games these things go against you. Well done Wales I think you'll probably win the championship now. Italy should be a breeze and I wasn't that impressed with France so you should beat them with home advantage. Warburton is a shoe in at openside for the Lions in this form.

As for England - an encouraging performance and a huge leap forward. Need to back it up now with 2 more good performances and then a good chance to continue building on the Summer tour. We have some really good talent coming through and need to make sure it's not wasted. Couple of players not in great form I'm thinking maybe we should look to replace Youngs and Ashton for the next 2 games.
 
Sharples is back training with England this week, so fingers crossed...

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Can I have another rant about the headlines on every rugby website?

In the past week, and just on BBC and Planet Rugby, I've seen:

(Brian) Ashton praises Lancaster impact
Howley hails 'special' Wales team
Halfpenny seeking soothing Slam
Warburton impresses Lions chief
Scotland teen Hogg excites Nicol
Hogg excited by George Best link
Welsh crop excites Gatland
Farrell relishing responsibility
Gray confident of attaining success
Tuilagi hails Farrell's performance
Hartley praise for Lancaster regime
Scots will score more tries - Jones
Rowntree backing England to shine
etc.

None of these are stories. What do they all have in common? They're all coaches/ players of 6N teams (occasionally an ex-player or ex-coach) who have been bombarded by journalists for a quote relating to something positive for the future of their team. Why do these stories get reported? Is anyone surprised that Gatland is excited by his Welsh team, or that Hartley is fully behind his coach? That's not news, that's what they're supposed to ****ing say.

And can headline writers please stop using words like 'hail' and 'praise', it makes me feel like they've been plagiarising Christmas Carols.
 
My pet peeve, for journalists, is when it says something like "Jamie Roberts warns team mates of Tuilagi threat" or something like that.
It makes it sound like he's gathered everyone around for a little conference about him, when in reality he's said in an interview "England have a lot of power in their backs, like Manu Tuilagi"
 
They've scored more tries than England this 6N.

Maybe so but England was their first game, so anything after the first game is irrelevant. Scotland came into the game not scoring many tries, and they kept on wasting opportunities, so it did not look like they were going to score. I think that the Ladlaw try should have been awarded, but what is to say that they would have scored a try with the penalty anyway considering they hadn't been scoring coming into the game?
 
Maybe so but England was their first game, so anything after the first game is irrelevant. Scotland came into the game not scoring many tries, and they kept on wasting opportunities, so it did not look like they were going to score. I think that the Ladlaw try should have been awarded, but what is to say that they would have scored a try with the penalty anyway considering they hadn't been scoring coming into the game?

A referee can't make subjective decisions based on whether he thinks the teams' skill or lack of it meant that its not worth the bother of going back to the original advantage.

Thinking about it... maybe that is exactly what Walsh did on Saturday. He realised that if he had gone back to the original advantage England couldn't perform a charge down as they were in possession of the ball, also Hodgson wasn't on the field so judging by recent history there was no chance that England would score and therefore no point... your logic!
 
A referee can't make subjective decisions based on whether he thinks the teams' skill or lack of it meant that its not worth the bother of going back to the original advantage.

Thinking about it... maybe that is exactly what Walsh did on Saturday. He realised that if he had gone back to the original advantage England couldn't perform a charge down as they were in possession of the ball, also Hodgson wasn't on the field so judging by recent history there was no chance that England would score and therefore no point... your logic!

Bit irrelevant. If there was a penalty in the Wales game the ref should have gone back for it. If there was a penalty in the Scotland game the ref should have gone back for it. What I'm saying is, if he had gone back to it in the Scotland game, Scotland might not have scored anyway considering past records, where as England might have ;)

Read today as well actually that England's defeat against Wales could eventually mean that come November they don't have a top 4 IRB rankings spot, and so will be in a pool with one of the other top 4 teams at the time for the RWC 2015. Wales rose above England today to go to 5th, so hopefully England can get back into the top 4 so we are separated from NZ, SA and Australia!
 
Bit irrelevant. If there was a penalty in the Wales game the ref should have gone back for it. If there was a penalty in the Scotland game the ref should have gone back for it. What I'm saying is, if he had gone back to it in the Scotland game, Scotland might not have scored anyway considering past records, where as England might have ;)

Read today as well actually that England's defeat against Wales could eventually mean that come November they don't have a top 4 IRB rankings spot, and so will be in a pool with one of the other top 4 teams at the time for the RWC 2015. Wales rose above England today to go to 5th, so hopefully England can get back into the top 4 so we are separated from NZ, SA and Australia!

Wales could also realistically get into the top 4, especially if we could beat France in three weeks time, who are currently ranked two places higher in 3rd. We also play twice against Aus in the summer, so if we could win one of those games we could realistically get into the top 4. Interesting sub-plot to this season.
 
Wales could also realistically get into the top 4, especially if we could beat France in three weeks time, who are currently ranked two places higher in 3rd. We also play twice against Aus in the summer, so if we could win one of those games we could realistically get into the top 4. Interesting sub-plot to this season.
Argentina confirmed in November, and probably New Zealand. I would imagine one of Fiji/Samoa/Tonga and probably Australia (Wish it was SA).
 
I'm sure we've got Australia 3 times in the summer + SR sides.
 
I'm sure we've got Australia 3 times in the summer + SR sides.
Correct, we could play Australia 6 times in 12 months. Imagine that forty years ago, when we maybe saw them thrice a decade.
We play the Brumbies apparently, good chance to give players like Tipuric, Shingler, Robinson a run out.
 
Wales could also realistically get into the top 4, especially if we could beat France in three weeks time, who are currently ranked two places higher in 3rd. We also play twice against Aus in the summer, so if we could win one of those games we could realistically get into the top 4. Interesting sub-plot to this season.

Well if England can beat France, and Wales beat France as well then Wales should have no problem in getting into the top 4. England have Fiji, Australia and SA all before the seeding is done, so as long as we can beat France + Ireland, and then beat Fiji and either Australia or South Africa England have a chance at a top 4 spot. If Wales loose to France and England beat France too then we have a chance, but after the Wales defeat it seems pretty unlikely. I don't think that will have too much effect on our RWC though, considering we still should be able to beat all the teams if we have hopes of winning.
 
When is the cut off date for the seedings after the summer tour or after the autumn internationals?
 

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