Questions

[Wally]

Why are many Top 14 clubs so rich when their crowds are generally very small? Is it all from broadcast revenue or do owners contribute heavily? And do many clubs make any sort of profit?

Great competition you have over there. I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos lately and I've come to appreciate it a lot more. I'd like to watch full length games, mainly those involving Toulon, Stade Francais, Racing Metro and Bayonne. Does anyone know when I can stream/download these matches online with English commentary?

 

[monkeypigeon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Wally @ Aug 30 2009, 07:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Why are many Top 14 clubs so rich when their crowds are generally very small? Is it all from broadcast revenue or do owners contribute heavily? And do many clubs make any sort of profit?

Great competition you have over there. I've been watching a lot of YouTube videos lately and I've come to appreciate it a lot more. I'd like to watch full length games, mainly those involving Toulon, Stade Francais, Racing Metro and Bayonne. Does anyone know when I can stream/download these matches online with English commentary?[/b]

First question. Well all the teams are meant to show what they think is going to be the change in their balance sheet at the end of the season. I'm sure I read the figures somewhere on the forum but I can't find it.

I think Stade Francais had a predicted +â'¬2M prediction excluding any Heineken Cup reward revenue. So quite impressive really.
Whereas some of the lower teams were predicting plus half a million or coming in even. I think there are financial requirements that must be met to be in the league.

Where the money comes from? Tv revenue, ERC competition reward money, Shirt sales (they are rugby mad down there in the south) and Owner's Capital. Them some teams e.g Stade get the odd 70,000+ attendance in the Stade de France.

I do wonder sometimes how some of the smaller teams make the money. Racing Metro is pretty much all from the owners but teams like Bayonne will only ever get in one big name a year, so they rely on them for boosted shirt sales you'd presume.



And Links with English Comentary. I was able to find them at the end of last season on Justin tv, but there seems to be no coverage in the Uk or Ireland at the start of the season. When it picks up a bit, ESPN and British EuroSport will be broadcasting and you should be able to pick up links then.

 

[DonBilly]

Bayonne played their first home game in Spain versus Stade Français in Anoeta, they managed in three weeks (time between they made the decision to relocate this game in San Sebastian and the match itself) to sell 30 000 tickets. In eptember they will play there again versus Biarritz Olympique the other Basque club of the Top14. This time it will be a sold out, Anoeta's capacity is 32000 seats.

 

[An Tarbh]

I'm not sure where you're coming from with the crowds comment, as far as I know last season the crowds were up, think it may have been due to Toulon coming up and moving games to the Stade Veledrome but it's not Toulon who are moving their games to bigger stadiums. At least 5 of the sides have moved games at one point or another and I'm sure there'll be more to come this season.

As for English commentary, I wouldn't hold my breath, I couldn't find any English stream for the first Toulon match which was shown on ESPN. I've heard Eurosport were supposed to be doing matches still this season but they had also said there'd be matches on next weekend, but there's only live golf and tennis according to the tv guide.

 

[Wally]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (An Tarbh @ Aug 30 2009, 11:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm not sure where you're coming from with the crowds comment, as far as I know last season the crowds were up, think it may have been due to Toulon coming up and moving games to the Stade Veledrome but it's not Toulon who are moving their games to bigger stadiums. At least 5 of the sides have moved games at one point or another and I'm sure there'll be more to come this season.[/b]

Well I was having a bit of a geez on Wikipedia the other day and it seemed all the teams I looked up had home grounds with capacities of around 10-14,000 which is fairy tiny. Even Stade Francais which I thought would have demanded quite a large stadium has a small ground like this. But as someone else pointed out I suppose they play some games at bigger multi purpose stadiums.

Cheers guys I look forward to some coverage.

 

[erwanseb]

Rugby suffer from a lcak of exposure but has a much better image than football.

With all scandals, excess of football , sponsors are reluctant to see their name linked to football excess.

The average Top14 club attracts about the same amount of sponsorship money as a league 1 club (football) for a budget on average 4 times smaller.

Rugby image is indeed its bigger asset, which is why Dean Richards must be punished very hard.

On other hand, rugby stadiums are small but full, the average attendance is rising steadily since 2000 and in fact reached a limit because of stadium capacity. Perpignan has a 13,000 seats stadium with 12,800 season ticket sold, how could they increase?
Hence the fashion of moving big games to neighboring big stadiums, which is a risky strategy.
First , city governors do not like that, they often give a small but consistent subsidy to the club, the subsidy money is supposed to benefit the city through extra sales in the bars, shop,... So when the club play somewhere else, the justification of the subsidy becomes soft.

 

[Melhor Time]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Codorniou @ Sep 6 2009, 12:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

On other hand, rugby stadiums are small but full, the average attendance is rising steadily since 2000 and in fact reached a limit because of stadium capacity. Perpignan has a 13,000 seats stadium with 12,800 season ticket sold, how could they increase?
Hence the fashion of moving big games to neighboring big stadiums, which is a risky strategy.
First , city governors do not like that, they often give a small but consistent subsidy to the club, the subsidy money is supposed to benefit the city through extra sales in the bars, shop,... So when the club play somewhere else, the justification of the subsidy becomes soft.[/b]

You are, without doubt, absoluely correct. The venues are small but are full. Perpignan and Montpellier's stadiums are beautiful, modern facilities but are both around 14,000 in capacity. The issue of moving matches to additional stadiums should not actually be an issue though. What it should, in fact, do is encourage the cities to upgrade to larger venues or else lose out as teams play matches in different places. Toulouse would full every match at the larger Stade de Ville. Now that the laws have changed and permit matches to be played outside of Spain this really should send strong messages to the clubs and to their cities. If Perpignan wants USAP to play big games in Perpignan then they simply need a larger venue. If the venue stays under 20,000 then Barcelona will be used for games vs Toulouse, Clermont, SF Paris and possibly others. The issue of making more money is something that is already motivating Bayonne. Bourgoin will surely play more and more games ouside of the city of Bourgoin-Jallieu now nthat they have severe economic problems. Grenoble is to be used in a few games time. Lyon, St Ettiene and Montbéliard should all be hosting Bourgoin matches. If I were involved in the clubs management I would certainly be looking at using these venues. Switzerland is another option as used vs Munster in the Heineken Cup a few years ago.

Interesting that Biarritz are not following Bayonne in hosting matches in San Sebastian, Spain. All that Clermont's beautiful venue ie not big enough. It should be increased to 30,000 or close to it. It seems like the teams from France's southwest are disadvantaged because they are all so close together. Toulon, in contrast is close to Marseilles an no one else is. Bayonne are going to have a larger profits from being on the Spanish border.

Lastly, Wally, if you are reading keep in mind that Stade de France hosts Stade Francais matches but do not host soccer club games, only playoffs. SF Paris fill it but soccer is restricted to playing at Parc de Princes which is 48,000 compared to Stade de France which is 80,000.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Melhor Time @ Sep 7 2009, 07:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Interesting that Biarritz are not following Bayonne in hosting matches in San Sebastian, Spain.[/b]

Biarritz have already played three times as far as I remember at Anoeta, San Sebastian stadium, for the H-cup. Next weekend they will host in this same stadium the Basque derby versus Bayonne. They intend to play one of the H-cup pool match there as well as the quarter and semi if they qualify.