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Probable Bok Starting XV

Ali AK9

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With the Lions being the sole surviving SA team in the semi's, and demolishing the Landers to make the final, there is plenty of talk about the Bok team consisting of atleast 50-70% Lions, especially after it was essentially all the Lions player who made the biggest impact against Ireland.
1. Tendai 'Beast Mtawarira
2. Adriaan Strauss (c)
3. Julian Redelinghys
- Beast might have been quiet after the June break, but still showed he had it with his good ball carrying in all 3 tests, and scrummed particularly well in the third test. Strauss automatically retains as he is captain. Redelinghys pops in to the starting XV due to an injury to Frans Malherbe, who actually was far from his fantastic form at the World Cup last year against Ireland -
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Pieter-Steph Du Toit
- The Stormers and Bok Lock pairing for the last 2 tests have leaped bounds, and still performed well after the June Break, it would be very naive for AC to split them -
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Warren Whiteley/Duane Vermuelen
8. Duane Vermuelen/Warren Whiteley (vc)
- With an injury to Siya Kolisi, Warren Whiteley should come into the starting lineup and should rightly also be vice-captain, after fantastic performances off the bench in the first 2 tests against Ireland and once again making great contributions in the 3rd test. One area I can't decide Tis whether Duane will play blindside (in SA 7 is considered blindside) or 8. I would personally play Whiteley at 8 as Faf is at 9, and both playing for the Lions over the past 3 years have a great relationship and know what each other want. Jaco Kriel deserves a start, and it would be very unwise for him not to start. François Louw can still add value off the bench if need be, but Jaco is simply too good to be left out. That try-saving tackle against Faddes could prove to be the match-winning tackle in the 80th minute on Savea to win the match -
9. Faf de Klerk
10. Elton Jantjies
- Nothing needs to be said, both are the 2 best halfbacks in South Africa, and currently perhaps on par if not slightly below on confidence and form against Perenara and Barrett. Faf won the series for South Africa in the 3rd test with 2 try-savers (one tackle and one intercept) -
12. Damian De Allende (Rohan Janse Van Rensburg)
13. Lionel Mapoe
- The reason I have bracketed Damian with Rohan is because while Rohan has been twice the player Damian has been, Damian will probably start in some of the earlier tests. Damian is very one-dimensional, the Chiefs knew exactly how to shut him out, because he has no versatility and can't pass, and for me lacks some pace. Rohan had a quieter game against the Landers than the Saders but still scored an intercept try, and for a man that weighs nearly over 110 kg, and has legs the size of tree trunks, he completely gassed Faddes and Sopoaga. Rohan has to start against the All Blacks and Oz as Damian's defence even last years when he was on form was and is simply atrocious. Lionel didn't have any opportunities due to Damian not giving him good ball against Ireland, and plays 10x better next to Rohan -
11. Bryan Habana
14. Ruan Combrinck
15. Jesse Kriel
- Bryan Habana is one of the only experienced players in the backline, with Kriel still only with 12 caps. Habana may not be the same old pace machine, but his performance at the World Cup still shows his prowess, class and ability to find and cross the tryline. Combrinck too has not lost any momentum since the June break, and has been the best wing in South Africa. There isn't any place for Willie Le Roux in the Bok side anymore. He needs to find his 2013-2014 touch again, and then he will be considered. His running is too lateral, and had one moment of brilliance in 3 tests against Ireland. Many pointless kicks, average defence and received a yellow card. Jesse Kriel has played 12 tests for the Bok at 13, and hasn't really fit into the Bulls 13 mould. Warrick Gelant focused on the SA sevens, he was moved to fullback to allow Dries Swanepoel to play 13, and Burger Odendaal to replace the injured Serfontein in the 12 jersey. He looked way more comfortable in the 15 jersey, made many clean breaks, and was instrumental in many of the Bulls tries. He showed glimpses of his 2015 form, where he beat countless defenders and even used his strength to bump off many -
Bench:
Bongi Mbonambi, Trevor Nyakane/Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Franco Mostert, François Louw, Rudy Paige, Pat Lambie, JP Pietersen/Rohan Janse van Rensburg
- Malcolm Marx will get his chance at some point during the championship and I believe if Strauss weren't captain, he would be starting. Either Kitshoff or Nyakane to cover the loosehead, probably Kitshoff because Nyakane has been injured. With Malherbe injured, Redelinghys starts and Koch should return to the Bok setup off the bench, as his scrummaging and physicality has been valuable to the Stormers setup. He scored 2 tries against the Chiefs in the Quarter-final. Mostert too has performed for Lions and Boks during the Ireland test series, and will likely continue playing off the bench. As much as I don't think Rudy Paige is good enough to play for the Boks, he is probably gonna feature, since SA is currently slim with scrumhalves. Cobus Reinach who has featured for the Boks in the past 2 years, is injured, and Jano Vermaak as well hasn't been playing too well. I wouldn't mind Ross Cronjé as backup, as he has been as good for the Lions in the Currie Cup and off the bench for Faf. Even Nic Groom should be considered for the Boks. Lambie is also one of the leaders in the squad, and with Pollard injured, he is definitely a trustworthy candidate who could finish off the last 10-15 minutes in a very tight match, with Elton off the field. JP Pietersen could also add some good experience off the bench, but if Damian is starting, we need Rohan on the bench, he is simply the best 12 in SR at the moment.
 
That team is probably not very probably since it has 1 'foreign born' black player and 3 colored guys while the rest is lilly white.

Its close enough to what I'd like to see though everything considered but still, we've made too many political compromizes (player and coaching wise and at all levels) and we have too much talent not in our own systems to make a real stab at a RC ***le IMO.
 
Players invited to a Springbok rehabilitation and conditioning camp:

1. Damian de Allende (Stormers)

2. Lood de Jager (Cheetahs)

3. Pieter-Steph du Toit (Stormers)

4. Eben Etzebeth (Stormers)

5. Vincent Koch (Stormers)

6. Jesse Kriel (Bulls)

7. Pat Lambie (Sharks)

8. Frans Malherbe (Stormers)

9. Oupa Mohoje (Cheetahs)

10. Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks)

11. Lwazi Mvovo (Sharks)

12. Sikhumbuzo Notshe (Stormers)

13. Trevor Nyakane (Bulls)

14. Coenie Oosthuizen (Sharks)

15. Rudy Paige (Bulls)

16. Handré Pollard (Bulls)

17. Jan Serfontein (Bulls)

18. Adriaan Strauss (Bulls)

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/18-boks-invited-to-rehabilitation-camp-20160731

So my guess is that these 18 players will be part of the Bok-team for the Rugby Championship. That means that 13 more players can join the team (Which I hope most of them are Lions players:
Julian Redelinghuys
Malcolm Marx
Franco Mostert
Jaco Kriel
Warren Whiteley
Faf De Klerk
Elton Jantjies
Courtnall Skosan
Rohan Janse van Rensburg
Lionell Mapoe
Ruan Combrink

That is 11 Lions Players that should be a shoe-in for Bok spots.

That leaves us with 2 empty spots, which would most probably be either overseas based players Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw, or AC's wildcards.

What is interesting is that Scarra Ntubeni and Bongi Mbonambi isn't mentioned...
 
Players invited to a Springbok rehabilitation and conditioning camp:

1. Damian de Allende (Stormers)

2. Lood de Jager (Cheetahs)

3. Pieter-Steph du Toit (Stormers)

4. Eben Etzebeth (Stormers)

5. Vincent Koch (Stormers)

6. Jesse Kriel (Bulls)

7. Pat Lambie (Sharks)

8. Frans Malherbe (Stormers)

9. Oupa Mohoje (Cheetahs)

10. Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks)

11. Lwazi Mvovo (Sharks)

12. Sikhumbuzo Notshe (Stormers)

13. Trevor Nyakane (Bulls)

14. Coenie Oosthuizen (Sharks)

15. Rudy Paige (Bulls)

16. Handré Pollard (Bulls)

17. Jan Serfontein (Bulls)

18. Adriaan Strauss (Bulls)

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/18-boks-invited-to-rehabilitation-camp-20160731

So my guess is that these 18 players will be part of the Bok-team for the Rugby Championship. That means that 13 more players can join the team (Which I hope most of them are Lions players:
Julian Redelinghuys
Malcolm Marx
Franco Mostert
Jaco Kriel
Warren Whiteley
Faf De Klerk
Elton Jantjies
Courtnall Skosan
Rohan Janse van Rensburg
Lionell Mapoe
Ruan Combrink

That is 11 Lions Players that should be a shoe-in for Bok spots.

That leaves us with 2 empty spots, which would most probably be either overseas based players Duane Vermeulen and Francois Louw, or AC's wildcards.

What is interesting is that Scarra Ntubeni and Bongi Mbonambi isn't mentioned...

Pollard definitely isn't involved in RC, he is not cleared to return until next year's Super Rugby tournament, and if he is lucky enough, he could be used for the November Internationals but it's very unlikely. Pollard has just been invited to get used to the Springbok setup once again. Also, I think AC is gonna add a couple more players, as RC is a longer competition. That's where Bongi and Scarra are gonna pop up. Also, Serfontein and Malherbe are both injured, and probably won't participate at all in the Championship. So that's 3 players out, which means 15 plus 11 Lions plus Duane, Flo, Bongi and Scarra. Squad of 31, maybe also bring in Morne Steyn and another halfback, so it should be a squad of 33-35 IMO!
 
Pollard definitely isn't involved in RC, he is not cleared to return until next year's Super Rugby tournament, and if he is lucky enough, he could be used for the November Internationals but it's very unlikely. Pollard has just been invited to get used to the Springbok setup once again. Also, I think AC is gonna add a couple more players, as RC is a longer competition. That's where Bongi and Scarra are gonna pop up. Also, Serfontein and Malherbe are both injured, and probably won't participate at all in the Championship. So that's 3 players out, which means 15 plus 11 Lions plus Duane, Flo, Bongi and Scarra. Squad of 31, maybe also bring in Morne Steyn and another halfback, so it should be a squad of 33-35 IMO!

Perhaps. But the possibility is that Pollard, Serfontein and Malherbe is there because their recovery is going better than expected and maybe AC wants to see how far away from full fitness they are.

It's just that it seems like AC has basically already announced the majority of his team. I know he will announce the final team on Saturday after the Super Rugby final. But I doubt there will be many surprizes.
 
If Wille le Roux is out that is already a good move IMO. Almost all he has seems to have done of late is run laterally and pop hospital passes.

Jesse Kriel at 15 with Mapoe at 13? Gelant has a few years to get a look in as well if he can step up. Lambie and Goosen also options at 15 seeing as Pollard and Jantjies look most likely to be our 10s going ahead?
 
Very interesting article in Business Day this morning:
http://www.bdlive.co.za/sport/rugby/2016/08/02/jp-in-the-wilderness-but-bongi-is-in
Based on that, JP Pietersen and Willie Le Roux seem to be out, Bongi is still in the squad, Malcolm Marx is mentioned by AC which is a positive and AC states the plan is to get Faf to 40 caps by the World Cup. So some positive movement.

Yup, saw that interview this morning on SS Blitz, with Bongi training in the gym. I like the way AC is being open and honest and focus on current form of players when selecting a squad. Something that was overlooked a lot by his predecessors.
 
I just hope he keeps looking at form comes 2019. Meyer also blooded a raft of new players at the start f his tenure but crept into his shell and refused to look at form going into the 2015 RWC.
 
I just hope he keeps looking at form comes 2019. Meyer also blooded a raft of new players at the start f his tenure but crept into his shell and refused to look at form going into the 2015 RWC.

Yeah. What was it, I think 16 new players in the first year when HM took charge?

I don't mind that, as long as it's the right players who deserve a spot.
 
Yeah. What was it, I think 16 new players in the first year when HM took charge?

I don't mind that, as long as it's the right players who deserve a spot.

Meyer went OTT IMO and then added just about no-one new thereafter. Don't get me wrong I like that he backed new blood and to some degree I remember his hand was forced. But he did that and then it seemed like he closed up shop. It looks like AC is bringing them in more steadily and phasing out the dead wood along the way which I hope means he won't close the door on ayone who might be able to add value at a later stage, someone like Gelant, Thomas du Toit, that young Kings scrummy or who knows could potentially only be hitting their stride very close to the RWC.
 
With Willie & JP out of contention now, it does cut a lot of experience away from our potential backline and essentially give it a new look. But this is what can be expected and I think the backline combinations would be the least of AC's selection headaches come RC.

Adriaan Strauss is a good player and leader, but he is no John Smit. Malcolm Marx is by far the incumbent hooker for that Bok nr. 2 jersey. AC must not quibble on that.
Then he should appoint Warren Whiteley as the new captain. This does implicate Duane Vermeulen's position in the team - and as much as I am a huge fan - I feel Whiteley should resume the position he has excelled in. Also, it was strikingly evident how Duane was off the pace in the June tests, and then Whiteley replaces him to then help inspire a come from behind series victory with his try.

And while in the frame of disregarding foreign based players, if it were not for injuries to the likes of Siya Kolisi & Marcel Coetzee - Francois Louw's spot would have been axed too, because Jaco Kriel's name should be 1st on the teamsheet.

Beast Mtawarira may be our most experienced Bok, but I think his prime is passed. Vincent Koch's hunger for playing should put him in pole position (nr.1) - Imagine how strong and stable our front row will be with Marx and Redelinghuys alongside him. Add in Kitsoff as backup (apparently he might be making his way back to SA?).

Etzebeth & PSDT should continue doing duty. Mostert can be rewarded with another call-up to the side. With Lood De Jager we have riches in locks.

No question on the halfback pairing to be coming from the Lions, and admittedly even the midfield. But I wouldn't take Damian De Allende out of the equation perhaps as yet. Rohan Janse van Rensburg will be in the Boks setup though no doubt.

The back 3 will be a completely new look compared to prior years with Combrink looking likely to be the only survivor since the last test. With Lambie still not training, makes it almost a definite for Jesse Kriel to be the starter at fullback, which leaves 1 wing position open and also where the likes of JP Pietersen will sorely be missed.

Courtnail Skosan is having a great season, but I think he is benefiting more from the type of rugby his franchise is playing and really as a player he is nothing short of special to what a 7s player can contribute in the 15 man game or to what the average winger SA produces (Seabelo Senatla, Sergeal Peterson). I feel here is where Bryan Habana can add value and contrary to popular belief, I think he still has some gas to burn.

I guess a lot will also depend on the kind of performance the Lions puts out on Saturday in terms of swinging those 50/50 selections, but for the most part the Bok jersey should be come 1st and the local players should have 1st dibs.
 
With Willie & JP out of contention now, it does cut a lot of experience away from our potential backline and essentially give it a new look. But this is what can be expected and I think the backline combinations would be the least of AC's selection headaches come RC.

Adriaan Strauss is a good player and leader, but he is no John Smit. Malcolm Marx is by far the incumbent hooker for that Bok nr. 2 jersey. AC must not quibble on that.
Then he should appoint Warren Whiteley as the new captain. This does implicate Duane Vermeulen's position in the team - and as much as I am a huge fan - I feel Whiteley should resume the position he has excelled in. Also, it was strikingly evident how Duane was off the pace in the June tests, and then Whiteley replaces him to then help inspire a come from behind series victory with his try.

And while in the frame of disregarding foreign based players, if it were not for injuries to the likes of Siya Kolisi & Marcel Coetzee - Francois Louw's spot would have been axed too, because Jaco Kriel's name should be 1st on the teamsheet.

Beast Mtawarira may be our most experienced Bok, but I think his prime is passed. Vincent Koch's hunger for playing should put him in pole position (nr.1) - Imagine how strong and stable our front row will be with Marx and Redelinghuys alongside him. Add in Kitsoff as backup (apparently he might be making his way back to SA?).

Etzebeth & PSDT should continue doing duty. Mostert can be rewarded with another call-up to the side. With Lood De Jager we have riches in locks.

No question on the halfback pairing to be coming from the Lions, and admittedly even the midfield. But I wouldn't take Damian De Allende out of the equation perhaps as yet. Rohan Janse van Rensburg will be in the Boks setup though no doubt.

The back 3 will be a completely new look compared to prior years with Combrink looking likely to be the only survivor since the last test. With Lambie still not training, makes it almost a definite for Jesse Kriel to be the starter at fullback, which leaves 1 wing position open and also where the likes of JP Pietersen will sorely be missed.

Courtnail Skosan is having a great season, but I think he is benefiting more from the type of rugby his franchise is playing and really as a player he is nothing short of special to what a 7s player can contribute in the 15 man game or to what the average winger SA produces (Seabelo Senatla, Sergeal Peterson). I feel here is where Bryan Habana can add value and contrary to popular belief, I think he still has some gas to burn.

I guess a lot will also depend on the kind of performance the Lions puts out on Saturday in terms of swinging those 50/50 selections, but for the most part the Bok jersey should be come 1st and the local players should have 1st dibs.

I agree with what your saying. I know I might not put enough stock in experience but Marx > Strauss ITO being a hooker, Whiteley > Vermeulen at least at the moment and I can't see it swing back as much as I love Vermeulen and then also Whiteley > Strauss ITO ledership seemingly. On top of that if we are looking to change the way we play we need to own it. No point wanting to put monster truck wheels on a Ferrari. Its not as if Marx, Jaco Kriel, Whiteley and the like stand back ITO physicality. Fitness is key if you want a chance to beat the ABs.

Great points on the backline as well. I'm hoping for an out-of-position wing on the left, someone with a bit of power as between Mapoe, Kriel and Combrinck we have good speed and power as well. My thinking goes something aong the lines of having either one of De Allende or Rohan Janse van Rensburg on the wing. De Allende looked overwhelmed at 13 the few chances he got there but he made his breakthrough for the Stormers on the wing, keeping defendes busy and looking for the offload. Or maybe even Serfontein or Mapoe. Goosen shouldn't be forgotten. He is playing some fanastic ruby for Racing 92 but alas has signed a 3 year etension. I feel we have 4 quality centers but a lack of well rounded wingers in SA. Either that or looking up the ever trustworthy Habana but I am now firmly in the only pick SA based players camp. Kitshoff needs to get back to SA ASAP. While I believe we'll be more competitive as a conferece next year we do need the depth in quality those players overseas are costing us.

S. Pietersen?

Sorry?
 
With Willie and JP out of the picture so to speak, I can see something exciting might happen.

It looks like Jesse Kriel will be the pick at fullback and Combrink on the wing, with perhaps Mvovo on the other wing, probably for the first match against Argentina.

but after that match we might see some changes, like Habana, Senatla, Kolbe and Specman all with the 7's and Skosan with the Lions. That is a lot of pace, my biggest worry is their defence though, and here I think Habana has the inside lane.

I think if we look to the future, it has to be between Senatla, Kolbe and Skosan, and my guess is that AC might try all 3 of them at 1 point.
 
I agree with what your saying. I know I might not put enough stock in experience but Marx > Strauss ITO being a hooker, Whiteley > Vermeulen at least at the moment and I can't see it swing back as much as I love Vermeulen and then also Whiteley > Strauss ITO ledership seemingly. On top of that if we are looking to change the way we play we need to own it. No point wanting to put monster truck wheels on a Ferrari. Its not as if Marx, Jaco Kriel, Whiteley and the like stand back ITO physicality. Fitness is key if you want a chance to beat the ABs.

Great points on the backline as well. I'm hoping for an out-of-position wing on the left, someone with a bit of power as between Mapoe, Kriel and Combrinck we have good speed and power as well. My thinking goes something aong the lines of having either one of De Allende or Rohan Janse van Rensburg on the wing. De Allende looked overwhelmed at 13 the few chances he got there but he made his breakthrough for the Stormers on the wing, keeping defendes busy and looking for the offload. Or maybe even Serfontein or Mapoe. Goosen shouldn't be forgotten. He is playing some fanastic ruby for Racing 92 but alas has signed a 3 year etension. I feel we have 4 quality centers but a lack of well rounded wingers in SA. Either that or looking up the ever trustworthy Habana but I am now firmly in the only pick SA based players camp. Kitshoff needs to get back to SA ASAP. While I believe we'll be more competitive as a conferece next year we do need the depth in quality those players overseas are costing us.



Sorry?

Can say that again, our wingers do seem to lack a bit of an all round game with their roles in the back 3. From what I've seen in the SR this year: in comparison to the Kiwi sides, the only attribute we can boast is our pace out wide. But on test level there is less of a chance at this being used in broken play and ur 1st-phase moves could well be the only time a winger can get the ball. Other attributes such as aerial threat, exploiting space with nifty kicks & of course some power can play a bigger role and can get them more involved in the game in other facets of play.

JP Pietersen & Combrink have the potential to make a formidable wing-pairing with their skill-set and attributes and any fullback will thrive with them, whether it be a gutsy Jesse Kriel or a conservative Pat Lambie.

But yes - ideally our squad should only consist of local players. However, with all the injuries at hand we should open the door to at least Flo & Duane coz without them we would have no experience whatsoever.
 
Squad announcement in 20mins, super curious about who'll be touring w.r.t overseas players and the replacements for Malherbe, Kollisi, JP and le Roux
 
Interesting that Goosen is there. Disappointing that Rohan Janse Van Rensburg isn't. Glad Marx is in the mix.
 
Interesting that Goosen is there. Disappointing that Rohan Janse Van Rensburg isn't. Glad Marx is in the mix.

It is disappointing that Rohan isn't there, but take comfort in the fact that the squad is just for the 1st 2 games.

With this squad I hope the starting XV will look like this:

1. Beast Mtawarira
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Julian Redelinghuys
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. PS Du Toit
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Francois Louw
8. Warren Whiteley

9. Faf De Klerk
10. Elton Jantjies
11. Lwazi Mvovo
12. Damien De Allende
13. Lionell Mapoe
14. Ruan Combrink
15. Jesse Kriel

16. Bongi Mbonambi / Malcolm Marx
17. Steven Kitshoff
18. Lourens Adriaanse / Vincent Koch
19. Lood De Jager / Teboho Mohoje
20. Duane Vermeulen / Sikhombuzo Notshe
21. Francois Hougaard / Rudy Paige
22. Morne Steyn / Johan Goosen
23. Juan De Jongh / Bryan Habana

The big question is how will AC go about with the quota system and whether he will be pressured into selecting certain players of colour ahead of more in form players, like Malcolm Marx, who in my opinion should start ahead of Strauss.
 
It is disappointing that Rohan isn't there, but take comfort in the fact that the squad is just for the 1st 2 games.

With this squad I hope the starting XV will look like this:

1. Beast Mtawarira
2. Adriaan Strauss
3. Julian Redelinghuys
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. PS Du Toit
6. Jaco Kriel
7. Francois Louw
8. Warren Whiteley

9. Faf De Klerk
10. Elton Jantjies
11. Lwazi Mvovo
12. Damien De Allende
13. Lionell Mapoe
14. Ruan Combrink
15. Jesse Kriel

16. Bongi Mbonambi / Malcolm Marx
17. Steven Kitshoff
18. Lourens Adriaanse / Vincent Koch
19. Lood De Jager / Teboho Mohoje
20. Duane Vermeulen / Sikhombuzo Notshe
21. Francois Hougaard / Rudy Paige
22. Morne Steyn / Johan Goosen
23. Juan De Jongh / Bryan Habana

The big question is how will AC go about with the quota system and whether he will be pressured into selecting certain players of colour ahead of more in form players, like Malcolm Marx, who in my opinion should start ahead of Strauss.

I'd be relatively happy about that as well, would have loved to see Goose run out on 12 though... or did he play 13 for Racing?

EDIT:

Yes, yes I know... but I'm a Goosen fanboy. He's a little bit better than Combrinck at hitting those 50m + penalties
 
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