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Pro14 this Weekend...

Groundhog said:
Fairly moot point but Sexton wasn't great against us from what I remember. He usually rides the line of aggression pretty well but it shook him out of his game when we played. Leinster's discipline that day in general was appalling and they approached the game in completely the wrong way.
I don't think Leinster need to be worried but at the same time they haven't had great results since the start of March (I think?) and expecting them to turn a top class European performance on a dime may also prove a small bit naive. Tolouse are certainly a better side than Ulster at the moment and proved well able to get it done on the road as they proved against Racing. Will be an interesting fixture.
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But we were actually playing worse in the Pro14 this time last year and still pulled out a brilliant performance against the Scarlets in the semi. I don't think we're going to get near those levels but at the same time we did already beat Toulouse comfortably at home this season. Toulouse are a very dangerous team and 100% have a chance but I think we'll do it.
 
The Alpha Bro said:
Sexton is one of the best players in the world, trying to paint him as a negative is daft.
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When he's on song, yes. However, if you get under his skin then the team has a high risk of going ***s up, as both Leinster and Ireland found against the Scarlets and Wales two years ago.
 
Yeah, we were always going to lose those games, Sexton was a contributing factor but we could have had Dan Carter from the 2005 Lions Tour at 10 and we'd still have lost.
 
The Alpha Bro said:
Obviously he has bad games but any team in the world would take him.
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Yes he is 1 of best. The point his he has no recent form really and before that was a mixed bag. Sexton hasn't been in good form since November really. So it's hard to tell really
 
I mean I would argue that he was better against Bath in the Aviva than Carbery was against Gloucester but yeah he hasn't been at his best since the All Blacks game and maybe before that.

He's judged off a different standard to everyone else.
 
Just saw the highlights of Leinster v Glasgow. Jonny Gray with over 40 tackles and looking back to his best. The Sam Johnson try was the try of the match. Brilliant snipe and offload from Price and the strength from Sam Johnson with that one handed fend off on Byrne was similar to the one he scored against England. His ability to fend off tackles with his strength is quite something.
 
Leinster Fan said:
I mean I would argue that he was better against Bath in the Aviva than Carbery was against Gloucester but yeah he hasn't been at his best since the All Blacks game and maybe before that.

He's judged off a different standard to everyone else.
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Well not even an accurate comparison as 1 was arguably playing in a better team vs a worst team at home. And the other was playing in a mixed team vs a much better English team away from home. And even that is not fair. But wouldn't say Sexton is judged off a different standard to everyone else just he has had a very poor 3 months or so. It happens.
 
He's 100% judged off a different standard. An 'excellent' performance from someone else barely gets remarked on if it's from him. Be that Ross Byrne, Jack Carty or Carbery.

I'm not trying to say he doesn't get the credit he deserves, because he definitely does, but I don't think being part of a collective team meltdown against Munster and then again having an inconsistent Six Nations (that included two very good performances against Scotland and France) as part of a consistently underperforming team is the same as being very poor, he's miles off his best but to say he's a liability is nonsense.
 
Leinster Fan said:
He's 100% judged off a different standard. An 'excellent' performance from someone else barely gets remarked on if it's from him. Be that Ross Byrne, Jack Carty or Carbery.

I'm not trying to say he doesn't get the credit he deserves, because he definitely does, but I don't think being part of a collective team meltdown against Munster and then again having an inconsistent Six Nations (that included two very good performances against Scotland and France) as part of a consistently underperforming team is the same as being very poor, he's miles off his best but to say he's a liability is nonsense.
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I don't think anyone said he was liability and don't think he was very good vs Scotland or France. Just he has been in poor form. And teams feel that if they get under his skin then he may loose the head. That is possible as history would suggest he can become narky. Equally he can be worldclass if he regains his form. But fear is he has very little form recently. And I would say he was correctly criticised in same way he was rightly praised for form. And I say form as that is it. Noone is saying he is a poor player just his form dipped. And fact is that Murray and Sexton playing like AIL players coincided with Irish form in 6 Nations
 
munstermuffin said:
I don't think anyone said he was liability and don't think he was very good vs Scotland or France. Just he has been in poor form. And teams feel that if they get under his skin then he may loose the head. That is possible as history would suggest he can become narky. Equally he can be worldclass if he regains his form. But fear is he has very little form recently. And I would say he was correctly criticised in same way he was rightly praised for form. And I say form as that is it. Noone is saying he is a poor player just his form dipped. And fact is that Murray and Sexton playing like AIL players coincided with Irish form in 6 Nations
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munstermuffin said:
That fair but for me I would class both as completely off and wouldn't start either.
Agree Sexton was good vs France. Not sure I'd say he was good vs Sco. Not poor just competent. At the moment on form neither are within an asses roar of international standard
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Hmmmm...

Sexton has played about 7 times in 5 months, half of those games were outside a beyond shite 9 too and he has had a mixed bag with good and bad performances. If there's any worry next week it's fitness and rustiness, beyond that Leinster have the best 10 in NH rugby by a distance.
 
munstermuffin said:
I don't think anyone said he was liability and don't think he was very good vs Scotland or France. Just he has been in poor form. And teams feel that if they get under his skin then he may loose the head. That is possible as history would suggest he can become narky. Equally he can be worldclass if he regains his form. But fear is he has very little form recently. And I would say he was correctly criticised in same way he was rightly praised for form. And I say form as that is it. Noone is saying he is a poor player just his form dipped. And fact is that Murray and Sexton playing like AIL players coincided with Irish form in 6 Nations
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Plenty of people have said he's a liability. Like you said in this thread that he can be the best weapon for the opposition. We must have watched different games again Scotland and France, he was excellent in both (even if he only lasted 25 minutes against Scotland). During the Six Nations Sexton's form, Murray's form and the team in general's form all fed into each other, none were at their best at that compounded all three issues.

Obviously for next week there's a worry about rustiness and fitness, but I don't think his Six Nations form is particularly relevant even if it sets up a nice narrative.
 
The Alpha Bro said:
Hmmmm...

Sexton has played about 7 times in 5 months, half of those games were outside a beyond shite 9 too and he has had a mixed bag with good and bad performances. If there's any worry next week it's fitness and rustiness, beyond that Leinster have the best 10 in NH rugby by a distance.
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But again I have said that. Like can't solely blame Murray but yes on form he is best 10 but for whatever reason he was not in great form
 
Leinster Fan said:
Plenty of people have said he's a liability. Like you said in this thread that he can be the best weapon for the opposition. We must have watched different games again Scotland and France, he was excellent in both (even if he only lasted 25 minutes against Scotland). During the Six Nations Sexton's form, Murray's form and the team in general's form all fed into each other, none were at their best at that compounded all three issues.

Obviously for next week there's a worry about rustiness and fitness, but I don't think his Six Nations form is particularly relevant even if it sets up a nice narrative.
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Big difference between saying he can be best weapon if you get him frustrated and him being a liability.
 
The Oggmonster said:
Just saw the highlights of Leinster v Glasgow. Jonny Gray with over 40 tackles and looking back to his best. The Sam Johnson try was the try of the match. Brilliant snipe and offload from Price and the strength from Sam Johnson with that one handed fend off on Byrne was similar to the one he scored against England. His ability to fend off tackles with his strength is quite something.
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You make some great points, thanks. That sure was an impressive road win by the Warriors. :cool:
 
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