Pro14 expansion into continental Europe - rumours

[Vieux Talonneur]

In among all this conquer the world stuff, I don't suppose anyone's given any thought to the fans. You know those people who put their hands in their pocket and actually go to the ground on a rainy Saturday afternoon to watch their team? Let's not pretend this is about anything other than money.

While the Champions League is bloated, it's interesting that wendyball, where the £ is god, has shied away from cross border for its bread and butter league competitions. While there's much wrong with that game, that is one thing they've got right.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

@Amiga500
We have differing opinions on how the game should be run. That's fine. As "hardcore" supporters of our teams, I'm sure both of us are looking forward to the new season beginning. I think for rugby to grow exponentially beyond it's current support base, it needs to change.

Examples of less being more? How about the NFL. Most valuable sports league on the planet. Number of regular season games? 16. Every game has meaning. Do you think Sky, for example, would prefer two game like Dragons v Leinster minus their star attractions in front of a paltry crowd which we're getting this Saturday or one Leinster v Ulster game in front of a full house in the Aviva stadium with internationals playing? Fans would be more inclined to buy into the latter too.

How can it be compared to rugby? Both are collision sports. NFL competes with leagues with far longer schedules - the MLB, NBA, NHL - and grew from small attendances and not much press coverage in the 1930s to a behemoth by the time the 1960s came around. Not by following their model but differentiating it from their competitors. Rugby much also differentiate itself from football/soccer and not flog it's players as is currently the place.

Football starts their season with the Community Shield in England, Supercopa de Espana, Super Cup in Europe and others to gear people up for the season ahead. NFL starts with a Thursday night game in a primetime TV slot. Pro14 starts with little press coverage and a host of the top international players missing. Doesn't exactly whet the appetite for new fans.

 

[Amiga500]

it's interesting that wendyball, where the £ is god, has shied away from cross border for its bread and butter league competitions. While there's much wrong with that game, that is one thing they've got right.

Like the (soccer) English Premiership that has Swansea City and recently had Cardiff in it?

You don't like the Celtic League. You've made that clear. You are dead set against anything that the Celtic Nations do to offset the imbalance in professionalism vs. potential viewing public. Feel free to ignore the sub-forum and stick to the T14 or AP.

 

[Amiga500]

Do you think Sky, for example, would prefer two game like Dragons v Leinster minus their star attractions in front of a paltry crowd which we're getting this Saturday or one Leinster v Ulster game in front of a full house in the Aviva stadium with internationals playing?

What Sky want often bears no resemblance to what is good for the game. Yes, D4 vs. Dragons will be a bit of a slow opener (unless Jackman works a miracle), but

- is it really much different from Wasps vs. Sale? Or Agen vs. Racing?
- if you want to drop teams from the league, what do you do it based on? A few years back it was both Connacht and the Scarlets propping up the table.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

You don't like the Celtic League. You've made that clear. You are dead set against anything that the Celtic Nations do to offset the imbalance in professionalism vs. potential viewing public. Feel free to ignore the sub-forum and stick to the T14 or AP.

A lot of people are positive about these changes, I don't like them. Discussing differing viewpoints is the point of a forum. But if you don't like what I say, just block me.

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Anaya again specifically name checks Spain and Germany, taking of "real opportunities". Also specifically names US and Canada in terms of possible discussions.

Importantly he indicates that the expansion to SA has given enough cash to reduce the time pressure for further expansion and that the priority is getting the Kings and Cheetahs incorporated as competitive entities before expanding further. All sounds good to me.

http://www.sportspromedia.com/quick_fire_questions/pro-14-club-rugby-unions-brave-new-world

 

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

No specifics on this about Georgia.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/47388295

In the meantime they need to focus on getting one of their sides qualified for the Challenge Cup, its the only pathway they have to improve and it hasn't hurt the Russians being involved in that.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Give me a Spanish and/or German team ahead of a Georgian team any day of the week.

The Pro 14 is absolutely not ready for a Georgian side.

 

[higgik]

@higgik
I see you're an NFL fan as that replicated their season schedule almost perfectly!

The hard part in cutting it to 32 European teams is that we currently have 38 teams between the old Pro 12, Top 14 and Premiership. What may be easier to achieve initially is having all these teams guaranteed participation plus 2 other new franchises in new markets like Spain and Germany. That gives us 40 European teams.

The 8 SA teams could be their old SuperRugby teams plus two others.

That gives us 48 teams split into 2 conferences and 12 divisions (based on traditional rivalries).
H & A in group - 6 matches
H or A with another group in conference - 4 matches
H or A with group from other conference - 4 matches
H or A v same ranked team in remaining groups in own conference - 4 matches

16 team playoffs.

Thank you. I am an NFL fan, but only for the way it maximises revenue and shares it equally between the franchises, which makes it much more entertaining, (not to watch) but to follow, as all the teams are fairly equal.

I do think your plan looks amazing and would tie in well with current markets.
Would also leave NZ and Aus completely alone, which is even better.

 

[higgik]

@Amiga500
We have differing opinions on how the game should be run. That's fine. As "hardcore" supporters of our teams, I'm sure both of us are looking forward to the new season beginning. I think for rugby to grow exponentially beyond it's current support base, it needs to change.

Examples of less being more? How about the NFL. Most valuable sports league on the planet. Number of regular season games? 16. Every game has meaning. Do you think Sky, for example, would prefer two game like Dragons v Leinster minus their star attractions in front of a paltry crowd which we're getting this Saturday or one Leinster v Ulster game in front of a full house in the Aviva stadium with internationals playing? Fans would be more inclined to buy into the latter too.

How can it be compared to rugby? Both are collision sports. NFL competes with leagues with far longer schedules - the MLB, NBA, NHL - and grew from small attendances and not much press coverage in the 1930s to a behemoth by the time the 1960s came around. Not by following their model but differentiating it from their competitors. Rugby much also differentiate itself from football/soccer and not flog it's players as is currently the place.

Football starts their season with the Community Shield in England, Supercopa de Espana, Super Cup in Europe and others to gear people up for the season ahead. NFL starts with a Thursday night game in a primetime TV slot. Pro14 starts with little press coverage and a host of the top international players missing. Doesn't exactly whet the appetite for new fans.

Well said, this is why we need to reduce the number of games. Sometimes less is more.