Player of the Decade

[Umaga's Witness]

PSdT has won the South African player of the year award three times out of the last 4 years. He would have won it 4 out of 4 were it not for injury. He played a crucial role in the 2015 world cup also, this after he tore a ligament and his dad went into surgery to donate his muscle tissue to PSdT, this so that his son could go play in the world cup or so the story goes... But I recognise that most international people only really took notice of him after our world cup win and probably would not have even noticed if we did not win the cup.

Carter was an all time great so if he did not win the previous player of the decade award then I would give it to him just based on his achievement in the game, don't need to be to pedantic over the timeframes. If not Carter then McCaw

Huh, Didn't remember that about psdt. Unnoticed probably because the team wasn't doing so well.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Read's best season was 2013. The same year as the game of the decade for me when NZ beat the Boks at Ellis Park for the RC. Phenomenal year as I recall. Probably not the same player post 2015 with the concussion issues but still one of the most respected AB players from an overseas point of view. I think those who think he's "criminally overrated" will only truly appreciate him when he's gone over the next few years. Savea for me is not an 8. And not sure about the new one from the Blues who'll take his time settling in at test level and there's not a guarantee he'll reach the same consistency levels.

Even Dallaglio rated him as the best number 8 he'd seen. And he knew a thing or two about playing number 8.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Read's best season was 2013. The same year as the game of the decade for me when NZ beat the Boks at Ellis Park for the RC. Phenomenal year as I recall. Probably not the same player post 2015 with the concussion issues but still one of the most respected AB players from an overseas point of view. I think those who think he's "criminally overrated" will only truly appreciate him when he's gone over the next few years. Savea for me is not an 8. And not sure about the new one from the Blues who'll take his time settling in at test level and there's not a guarantee he'll reach the same consistency levels.

Even Dallaglio rated him as the best number 8 he'd seen. And he knew a thing or two about playing number 8.

Well I said for most of his career he was criminally overrated. Not 2013, not last year. But most other years. this was the golden boy, the next mcaw, literally the chosen one to be all blacks captain since before he was an all black. Every mistake was ignored or played down ( It was awkward how often the commentators would say "an uncharacteristic error from read") every good thing overemphasised. His play was very good, his rating was astronomically high.

And we are talking about player of the decade here so I think you'd have to have been pretty darned amazing for several Years, like retallick was for 5 years straight.

And I'm not sure the relevance of current all blacks 8 options to this question. No matter how good I realise read was after watching the new all blacks eights, I will still have had the luxury of comparing read closely to Vermeulen during his time, to other loose forward legends around the time such as Pocock, kaino, and mcaw, Collins. And to players more generally during any time in terms of their influence on a match with big plays, which read often did in a negative sense a lot more than most tier one test players.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Well I said for most of his career he was criminally overrated. Not 2013, not last year. But most other years. this was the golden boy, the next mcaw, literally the chosen one to be all blacks captain since before he was an all black. Every mistake was ignored or played down ( It was awkward how often the commentators would say "an uncharacteristic error from read") every good thing overemphasised. His play was very good, his rating was astronomically high.

And we are talking about player of the decade here so I think you'd have to have been pretty darned amazing for several Years, like retallick was for 5 years straight.

And I'm not sure the relevance of current all blacks 8 options to this question. No matter how good I realise read was after watching the new all blacks eights, I will still have had the luxury of comparing read closely to Vermeulen during his time, to other loose forward legends around the time such as Pocock, kaino, and mcaw, Collins. And to players more generally during any time in terms of their influence on a match with big plays, which read often did in a negative sense a lot more than most tier one test players.

The relevance being he won't be really appreciated until after he's retired and part of the very best backrows of the international game . I thought he was pretty amazing 2010 to 2014. I even remember him in the final of RWC 2015 and getting injured early and probably should have gone off but carried on the full 80.

I think you're doing him a disservice. Not the player of the decade but still lines up along the great number 8s to have played for the ABs. Certainly for the decade as good at and outplayed Vermeulen pre 2015. Pocock was really playing a 7 in an 8 jersey. And even Pocock and RIP Collins walked away without an RWC winners medal, let alone two.

All round top player for me could do it all - great at the line out, think ABs will miss him there. Turnovers, ball carrier, tackler. Sure he made mistakes, but who doesn't and even if his scores were overblown by NZ media, he was rarely not a 7/10 at test level and rarely had a bad game. Sure his only sins as an AB was not winning the series v the Lions and lifting the RWC. Personally I will remember him as a great player and leader of the ABs.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

we cant win, even when kiwis try and be critical of one of our players we're told we're wrong

He has retired (internationally) and its only now people are coming out and saying he was over hyped.

He played NPC for counties against Otago on the weekend, no question he was a level above a lot of the field...but he also knew it, never saw him in the tight stuff, always floating out to the wing or trying to nip around the ruck claiming the all was out. He did one of his "trademark" kick off regathers...but that was it

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

He played NPC for counties against Otago on the weekend, no question he was a level above a lot of the field...but he also knew it, never saw him in the tight stuff, always floating out to the wing or trying to nip around the ruck claiming the all was out. He did one of his "trademark" kick off regathers...but that was it

This criticism of players is one of my biggest pet hates in rugby. At that level, if a player is on the wing it's because the game plan requires them to be there and they've been told to be there by the coach. No one in pro rugby is just floating around where they fancy being.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

This criticism of players is one of my biggest pet hates in rugby. At that level, if a player is on the wing it's because the game plan requires them to be there and they've been told to be there by the coach. No one in pro rugby is just floating around where they fancy being.

dont agree with that, you can believe it of course, i dont believe any professional coach want a loose forward out on the wing when you're loosing turnovers in the ruck....i also dont think coaches would prefer when they go wide to find a No8 than a speedster

 

[Umaga's Witness]

The relevance being he won't be really appreciated until after he's retired and part of the very best backrows of the international game . I thought he was pretty amazing 2010 to 2014. I even remember him in the final of RWC 2015 and getting injured early and probably should have gone off but carried on the full 80.

I think you're doing him a disservice. Not the player of the decade but still lines up along the great number 8s to have played for the ABs. Certainly for the decade as good at and outplayed Vermeulen pre 2015. Pocock was really playing a 7 in an 8 jersey. And even Pocock and RIP Collins walked away without an RWC winners medal, let alone two.

All round top player for me could do it all - great at the line out, think ABs will miss him there. Turnovers, ball carrier, tackler. Sure he made mistakes, but who doesn't and even if his scores were overblown by NZ media, he was rarely not a 7/10 at test level and rarely had a bad game. Sure his only sins as an AB was not winning the series v the Lions and lifting the RWC. Personally I will remember him as a great player and leader of the ABs.

2010- 2014, fair point that's a lot of years, maybe I am doing him a disservice.

But I still think he was criminally overrated for most of his career, which doesn't at all mean he was bad, just that his rating was A lot higher than How good he was.

I absolutely agree that he had a good all round game.

I don't agree with the every player makes mistakes Remark, because for me read really stood out in terms of the severity of mistakes, including missed tackles that lead to tries, and failed offloads when it just simply was not a good time to try and force a pass. Great New Zealand teams are great because they take the right risks at the right times, Read didn't.

I also don't think being Winning teams should count, especially when you look at the other players in those teams and how good they were.

This criticism of players is one of my biggest pet hates in rugby. At that level, if a player is on the wing it's because the game plan requires them to be there and they've been told to be there by the coach. No one in pro rugby is just floating around where they fancy being.

I think you make a good point, but it's not black and white, for two reasons.

1. players will deviate from what the coaches say (that is inevitable because games simply aren't these formulaic predictable things that can be completely covered by the game plan) for the worse, sometimes this means hanging out in the wing more than they should.

2. Players should deviate from what the coaches say for the better when what the coaches say isn't working, which is inevitable at times, some times more than others.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

dont agree with that, you can believe it of course, i dont believe any professional coach want a loose forward out on the wing when you're loosing turnovers in the ruck....i also dont think coaches would prefer when they go wide to find a No8 than a speedster

Of the 40 tries scored down the wing in this video, 19 of them have either been scored by a forward or have been scored as a a direct result of a forward's offload. And that's not included the ones that were scored as a result of just having a man like Squire or Coles drawing on defenders just by being there. Coaches absolutely do what hookers and back rowers in the wide channels. They draw in defenders to offload to and unleash speedsters and force defences to spread out their big boys across the park in order to counter the bigger ball carriers on the wing, in turn creating more mismatches for speedsters against those big forwards that are having to cover the wide channels defensively. I don't think there's any arguing that in the modern game, stationing mobile forwards on the wing absolutely is a tactic.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Of the 40 tries scored down the wing in this video, 19 of them have either been scored by a forward or have been scored as a a direct result of a forward's offload. And that's not included the ones that were scored as a result of just having a man like Squire or Coles drawing on defenders just by being there. Coaches absolutely do what hookers and back rowers in the wide channels. They draw in defenders to offload to and unleash speedsters and force defences to spread out their big boys across the park in order to counter the bigger ball carriers on the wing, in turn creating more mismatches for speedsters against those big forwards that are having to cover the wide channels defensively. I don't think there's any arguing that in the modern game, stationing mobile forwards on the wing absolutely is a tactic.

im sure it pays off sometimes...but looking at read in particular, one of otago's tries was our winger just standing up the counties 7 and 8...just running around them, there is different between latching on the end of a backline play to go in the corner and just not bothering to follow the play and resting on the wing or thinking you're the bees knees and marking someone thats about to show you up

 

[The Seeker]

Beauden Barrett got my vote. If you haven't voted yet, click the link below. Voting closes Oct. 25th at 5:00 pm, UK time.

World Rugby

www.world.rugby

 

[Yulia]

@RugbyUSA I'm surprised no one has mentioned him yet, except you. I thought he's an AB star number 1 couldn't choose between him and Sexton, but finally voted for Sexton (key factor here: he's older than Barrett)

 

[ncurd]

Beauden Barrett is about as overrated as European Player of Year Owen Farrell (who also got niminated multiple times as world player of the year for no good reason). I honestly don't ever see it why they are so massively rated above their peers.

Its McCaw or Read and honestly the leading a team to B2B World Cups probably edges it.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The whole concept of player of the decade in a team game is pretty ridiculous as to do your job well you depend on others doing theirs. We might very well be talking about Parisse in hushed tones if he'd been born in Rotorua not Rome (well Arg if you're being picky, but you get the point).

In terms of most consistently influential player during his time playing in that decade I'd go McCaw.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The whole concept of player of the decade in a team game is pretty ridiculous as to do your job well you depend on others doing theirs. We might very well be talking about Parisse in hushed tones if he'd been born in Rotorua not Rome (well Arg if you're being picky, but you get the point).

In terms of most consistently influential player during his time playing in that decade I'd go McCaw.

Yeah. This is just such a dumb category, and that there is more to players than just performance. Take a guy like Cheslin Kolbe as an example. He played Super Rugby, and got ignored because he was too small. Then went to the 7's circuit and made a name for himself, then got a chance to go and play in Europe 15's rugby, and has been consistently one of the top players in the league every season, then got called back to international duty, and eventually made the WC team, and was one of the most influentual en best players in the team. But his journey in this past decade is not something WR would use...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Isn't it just the 10 players who were voted player of the year for the last 10yrs?

It's just a popularity contest based on previous popularity contests

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Isn't it just the 10 players who were voted player of the year for the last 10yrs?

It's just a popularity contest based on previous popularity contests

POTY is a panel elected award isn't it?

I don't think they'd run this if it wasn't for covid to be honest.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

POTY is a panel elected award isn't it?

Ah, is it the Six Nations player that's the fan vote?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ah, is it the Six Nations player that's the fan vote?

Yeah, exclusively Scottish fans at that I'm pretty sure.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

@RugbyUSA I'm surprised no one has mentioned him yet, except you. I thought he's an AB star number 1 couldn't choose between him and Sexton, but finally voted for Sexton (key factor here: he's older than Barrett)

BB is a great player, but i think of him as a 9/10 in a couple of different positions, he hasn't settled down to one and until he does he'll struggle to be the best, even in Bledisloe one the other week people were saying he should be on the bench because his brother had outperformed him at 15 and RM had outperformed him at 10....not where the "player of the decade" should be in his prime