Pacific nations (im)possible line-ups

[Tomsey]

Tonga PM blasts 'unfair' World Cup

Tonga's prime minister says this year's rugby world cup will not be a real competition because "unfair" eligibility rules prevent Pacific nations from fielding some of their best players.

Lord Tu'ivakano said International Rugby Board (IRB) rules barring a player who has represented one country from ever taking the field for another, protected the game's traditional powers from being challenged.
The law is a sore point for Pacific nations, whose best players are often lured to New Zealand or Australia as youngsters, but cannot represent their homeland even after their careers with their adopted countries are over.
“If we're going to have a real World Cup, then they need to give the other countries the chance to have their own players," he told AFP in an interview on Tuesday.
Tu'ivakano said Tonga had players in top international competitions who could not represent their country at the World Cup, which runs from September 9 to October 23 in New Zealand, robbing the team of valuable experience.
"Now we're just trying to find people who are playing regional in New Zealand," he said. "Now some of our boys don't have international experience."
Tu'ivakano said rugby league allowed players to switch nationalities but the IRB had proved inflexible in November when it rejected a New Zealand-sponsored move to relax eligibility rules.
"It's very unfair, I think they really need to look at it," he said.

SOURCE: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/tonga-pm-blasts-unfair-world-cup-20110210-1anze.html


The "should Pacific island players be allowed to play for their home nation after their Wallaby/All black career is over†debate has been going on for a while. I tend to agree with the concept because it can only mean the Pacific nations will improve at rugby, which can only be a good thing for international rugby. This article got me thinking today of players who fit the bill, ie. would likely be playing for their home pacific nation if they were allowed to .It would be interesting to see what some of the lineups would look like if the rule where to change. The only one I could think of was Sosene Anesi who is Samoan but played one test for the All Blacks in 2005 so is ineligible for Samoan selection. Can anybody think of anyone else?

 

[Amobokoboko]

Lauaki, played some games in the Black shirt and didn't do that bad as captain during the first two-three games for the Chiefs last S14 season. In France he's almost every week in the starting XV, so maybe he could add a little bit to the Tongan squad.

The only issue that raises here is: if players decide to play for NZ, OZ, they are look at as people who don't want to represent their home nation ( best example would be that Fijian who wasn't good enough for the AB's but is not allowed to play for Fiji as hei's a "traiter"). The better players will stay a longer period in a national squad and then age is the debacle.

 

[Feicarsinn]

It's a non issue as far as I'm concerned. It would cheapen the jersey of both countries involved imo. The IRB made the right call in not allowing this sort of thing to happen.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree with Feic,
Should they be allowed to switch back then Australia/New Zealand don't need them anymore?
Short answer: No
Long answer: Nooooooooooooo

 

[The Juice]

I'm kind of on the fence with this because i think that players should be given the opportunity to change jerseys but "ONLY ONCE" I believe if they allow this to happen and players are allowed to return to there Home Nations it could make the comptition alot tighter in International play.

 

[Teh Mite]

It's a slippery slope to an "international transfer market" when that happens.

Of course, all the Samoans have to do is bleat about their "human rights" and no doubt the ruling will be overturned.

 

[veux]

I don't think it should apply to players like Jerry Collins, who have had long international careers and have been capped a lot. However if a player has 10 or less caps I think they should be allowed to switch back. Say a Pacific Islander goes to NZ, gets into the ABs at 22 and plays in the tri-nations and the Autam internationals post world cup, then stops being selected as someone better comes along/a player returns to NZ after 2 years at a European club, they shouldn't be regarded as a fully fledged international player, and they may really regret playing that international season, especially if they are 28 or so, haven't played for NZ since 22, and really want to represent their country of birth (and may not even be in NZ any more).

This would also stop countries poaching young players, giving them a cap or two to secure them, and then dropping them from the national team (something which will probably happen more, and probably a massive reason as to why so many people want M Tulagi to get an England cap, and perhaps why J O'C got into the Wallabies so young).

Obviously on this basis, a top international who has represented X country for many years and become part of the national squad and adopted a fair amount of nationality shouldn't be allowed to return.

 

[dullonien]

Players are rarely capped before the age of 18. Once you're 18 there are concequenses to your actions. For a professional rugby player who is eligible for more than one country, deciding which one you consider 'home' is one of the biggest decisions of your life. If these players trully want to represent their country of herritage then it's up to them to decide that from the off, not switch when the All Blacks et al no longer need them.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Don't agree with people changing allegiances at all. If you play for one nation you cannot simply change to another. This debate seems to only emerge during World Cup years!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The only thing that makes international rugby so beautiful is the patriotic edge that it gives to the game. Making people switch between countries takes all that away and, like others said, is a step closer to a transfermarket for international teams

 

[profitius]

Unfair? The rules are the same for everyone. Its the players who decide to represent different countries for personal gain. If they do that, tough luck.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Why is it even possible to choose the country to play for?

 

[lucky number 7]

Why is it even possible to choose the country to play for?

attaining citizenship after a few years residence I'm assuming or claiming some distant heritage ?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yes, I understand that. No problem with Andrew Merthens playing for the All Blacks since he grew up there or Brad Barritt playing for England after he moved there. What I have a problem with, is players representing several countries. That should NOT be allowed.

It's easy. If you are born in South Africa and have French and English parents, you can choose. Once you've made a decision, you stick with it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I really think they should lock it across the board, so you represent a country for any sport and that's the only country you can support
Would stop Hape playing for England have playing for New Zealand at RL fourteen times

 

[lucky number 7]

Yeah players should pick one and thats their rugby nation . full stop.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

It's also ridiculous that Rugby League, Rugby Union and Sevens is all separated from eachother when it comes to this. Like Olyy says it's ridiculous that you can represent England in Rugby Union and NZ in Rugby League

 

[lucky number 7]

I dont mind league and union TBH however sevens should be ruled the same as 15 man

 

[Shaggy]

Yes, I understand that. No problem with Andrew Merthens playing for the All Blacks since he grew up there or Brad Barritt playing for England after he moved there. What I have a problem with, is players representing several countries. That should NOT be allowed.

It's easy. If you are born in South Africa and have French and English parents, you can choose. Once you've made a decision, you stick with it.

While Andrew Merhtens was born in South Africa, his father is a New Zealander - Andrew's father, and Grand father were both All Blacks, making them the only Grand father - father - son combination to be All Blacks thus far.

... what the article (and the Tongan Prime Minister) don't point out, is that the rules actually protect the players that have already represented their nation from being poached by the bigger rugby nations. This prevents the "Frank Bunce" scenario, where he played for years in NZ, wasn't deemed good enough for the All Blacks until he played for Samoa in the 1991 world cup, and beat Wales, and the incumbent All Black outside centres retired (Joe Stanley) or went to league (Craig Innes)

The players knew this rule when they chose to represent the country they chose to represent - no it's not ideal for the smaller nations, but their are better ways to help them improve/maintain their player strength (such as including their sides in major competitions/providing a revenue stream)

 

[TRF_Cymro]

It's also ridiculous that Rugby League, Rugby Union and Sevens is all separated from eachother when it comes to this. Like Olyy says it's ridiculous that you can represent England in Rugby Union and NZ in Rugby League

7s is the same as Union, you can't play for one nation and in 7s and play for another one in XV's!