O'Driscoll, Heaslip and Sexton Agree New Deals

[Teh Mite]

Wow. Imagine the shitstorm if I'd said something not nice about O'Driscoll...

 

[durbutter]

I'd say Smith is at least as good as him to be fair.

 

[Logorrhea]

Wow. Imagine the shitstorm if I'd said something not nice about O'Driscoll...

Still as excitable as ever eh? I just disagreed with how you limited your statement and compared it to a well respected journo whose opinion seems to mirror yours. Hardly a "shitstorm".

I'd say Smith is at least as good as him to be fair.

I wonder how many caps he would have gotten if O'Driscoll was a New Zealander.

 

[dangandan]

Still as excitable as ever eh? I just disagreed with how you limited your statement and compared it to a well respected journo whose opinion seems to mirror yours. Hardly a "shitstorm".




I wonder how many caps he would have gotten if O'Driscoll was a New Zealander.

to be fair, O'driscoll probably wouldn't have had as many caps if he was a New Zealander because of age so Smith wouldn't be that far off.

 

[Logorrhea]

O'driscoll probably wouldn't have had as many caps if he was a New Zealander because of age

Eh? Could you explain what you mean? O'Driscoll is two years old then Smith.

 

[dangandan]

my mistake. age has taken it's toll on O'driscoll's running game and it was already evident quite a couple years ago. in that time i wouldn't be surprised if henry and co would have begun starting Smith at 13. the thing is, smith probably would have gotten the same amount of caps he has because O'Driscoll was more Umaga's age group. there's a big dilemma over who's better between those two so the Umaga to Smith transition could have happened anyway. the ABs aren't really known for bringing in backs who are 25+ unless they really need to.

 

[dangandan]

i realise this is all really off topic and what i'm saying is a whole load of "what ifs". i'm just saying anything could have happened.

 

[Peat]

Its a work in process isnt it. We will always struggle to replace BOD and we are waiting for a few second rows to come through but thats it really. The age profile is pretty good and the transition has been managed well. I dont think DOC is too old, I just think hes playing shite. ROG is a good option at 10 (unfortunately) and BOD is still the best 13 in world rugby. Should we discard them?

No. However, two year central contracts is possibly going the other way. Husbanding your experience up to the World Cup is one thing.

After that, it should be open season on all of them - which I very much doubt is going to happen while they've still got central contracts. And...

Do you find a 32 year old O'Driscoll scary?

Hes not the "best" but hes hugely importnat to Ireland/Leinster. No other team would pick him as they would rather have Roberts, Tindell, Rougerie, Smith, Ashley Cooper etc.

I would most definitley have Conrad Smith and Adam Ashley-Cooper in front of him. Quite easily in fact. He's indebatably the best in the Northern Hemisphere, but that in itself is mildly embarassing.

He's still a very good player and god knows I will never write him off. But his sheer pace and explosiveness has gone. I'd go so far as to say he's no longer scary. His skills do occasionally let him down. Right now, his most dangerous weapons are his experience, his phsyicality and self-belief. A young contender could have him now, if such a thing was allowed to get decent levels of international experience.

And thats before another two years of battering, erosion and injury take their toll.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I understand the reasoning behind Ronan O'Gara and Brian O'Driscoll getting central contracts, less so Donncha O'Callaghan.

O'Gara is vital to his province and given Ireland's lack of proven depth behind Jonathan Sexton, he's needed as a fall back option. He may be about to turn 34 but in my opinion is playing his best rugby in 3 or 4 seasons. The knowledge he can impart on Sexton and Ian Keatley is invaluable while having an international contract will limit the amount of games he plays (I doubt he'll feature too often in the Magners League from now on) thus keeping him fresh for bigger internationals and the Heineken Cup. Along with Paul O'Connell and Brian O'Driscoll, O'Gara is one of the faces of Irish rugby (like it or not).

O'Driscoll is similar to O'Gara. His marketability alone is invaluable to the IRFU and Leinster. Basically, O'Driscoll will sell tickets, jerseys, sponsorship etc. I just hope that if somebody is clearly better than him before the end of his contract, O'Driscoll won't be picked on reputation and the 13 jersey will go to the most deserving player.

O'Callaghan probably got his deal due to the lack of quality second rows in the country but he's far from an important player for province or country. His new contract is good news for Munster since it will slow down their rebuilding process but the gap between him and Leo Cullen, Dan Tuohy, Devin Toner, Donnacha Ryan and Mick O'Driscoll isn't so large that O'Callaghan is indispensible. It's crazy to think that O'Callaghan got an international contract yet Sean O'Brien only got a provincial deal.

There's a lot of talk that Tony Buckley is losing his international contract with Mike Ross primed to get one in his place. I honestly don't believe there's a tighthead in Ireland who deserves an international deal but Ross is a better option than Buckley.

 

[Logorrhea]

No. However, two year central contracts is possibly going the other way. Husbanding your experience up to the World Cup is one thing.

After that, it should be open season on all of them - which I very much doubt is going to happen while they've still got central contracts. And...

Agree on the duration of ROD and DOCs contracts (they shouldnt be central at all) but you have to realise the contracts do not guarantee any player a place in the squad or the team. On the other side of it, missing out on a central contract does not exclude you from selection.

Anyhoo, my point was more based on the fact that we have been integrating a lot of youth into the team over the past two years. Healy and Cronin in the front row (alongside Ross). Ruddock has been capped, Dominic Ryan is coming through in Leinster and if you add those two to O'Brien, Ferris and Heaslip and you have a pretty young backrow.

O'Leary is shite but hes young enough. Sexton is mid twenties, and we'll soon have any two from McFadden, O'Malley, Fitzgerald, Earls, Spence, Griffin battling it out for those two centre spots. We have plenty of young wings (though Horgan has been in great form) and Kearney at fullback (If Fitz doesnt shine there).

We arent actually that old a team at the moment.

I would most definitley have Conrad Smith and Adam Ashley-Cooper in front of him. Quite easily in fact.

Based on what exactly? Smith I could consider but Cooper? Come off it, its far too soon to call that one.

As for pace, O'Driscoll hasnt had pace and explosiveness for 4 years or so, Smith has never had it. If you want explosive pace, then stick Ugo Monye in the centre.

I'm a huge fan of Smith myself. I think he makes the ABs a far better team then they are without him, but I dont think he is as good as O'Driscoll now (BOD outshone him in the recent meeting) or before.

You say potato, I say potato but your "quite easily" is a bit over the top me thinks. Each to their own I spose.

 

[lucky number 7]

Over the next 4 years the players that Ireland need to stay
Heaslip
O' Brien
Earles
Ruddock
Sexton
Ferris
Healy
Ross (probably :/ )
O' Malley
Tuohoy

these guys are the future despite some being rather old if Ireland holds onto these and bloods some other talented stock things will be looking good.

 

[munstermuffin]

I'd add maybe Nagle to that list along with Marshall from Ulster.
Ross isn't going to be around in 4 years as I think he will retire when 33/34

 

[Conal]

also cave spence keatly hagan would need to stay i thinks

 

[Peat]

Agree on the duration of ROD and DOCs contracts (they shouldnt be central at all) but you have to realise the contracts do not guarantee any player a place in the squad or the team. On the other side of it, missing out on a central contract does not exclude you from selection.

It doesn't seem that way and its not what I've seen said. The way I see/hear it, there's a bias towards the central contracts internationally so that the money looks justified, and they automatically start the bigger matches at their province, therefore blocking off young talent from getting HEC experience.

I may be wrong, but I'm dubious about the next couple of years proving me so.

Anyhoo, my point was more based on the fact that we have been integrating a lot of youth into the team over the past two years. Healy and Cronin in the front row (alongside Ross). Ruddock has been capped, Dominic Ryan is coming through in Leinster and if you add those two to O'Brien, Ferris and Heaslip and you have a pretty young backrow.

O'Leary is shite but hes young enough. Sexton is mid twenties, and we'll soon have any two from McFadden, O'Malley, Fitzgerald, Earls, Spence, Griffin battling it out for those two centre spots. We have plenty of young wings (though Horgan has been in great form) and Kearney at fullback (If Fitz doesnt shine there).

We arent actually that old a team at the moment.

Actually, yes, fair enough - a lot of the old guard have been replaced, even if some of the replacements still have things to prove.

But there were plenty of younger guys around the England 2003 team as well and look how that turned out. Yes, we were horribly unlucky with injuries - but then already with Ireland you can see players who seem to get injured just turning around (if Ferris makes it much past 30 I'll be amazed). I think you are managing the transition better than we are, but given how conservative Kidney is I worry for Ireland when I see things like plans to still be relying on players into their mid-30s.

Based on what exactly? Smith I could consider but Cooper? Come off it, its far too soon to call that one.

As for pace, O'Driscoll hasnt had pace and explosiveness for 4 years or so, Smith has never had it. If you want explosive pace, then stick Ugo Monye in the centre.

I'm a huge fan of Smith myself. I think he makes the ABs a far better team then they are without him, but I dont think he is as good as O'Driscoll now (BOD outshone him in the recent meeting) or before.

You say potato, I say potato but your "quite easily" is a bit over the top me thinks. Each to their own I spose.

You owe me for a couple of therapy sessions for planting the thought of Monye at outside centre in my head. Christ. Horrendous.

I really rate Ashley-Cooper, its true... ok, take him out of the equation, I still think BOD is just slowing down a little too much and his ability to make space for others seemed to be on the wane in the Autumn. Mindyou, that might be reflective of Ireland as a whole as none of the backs were as good as they could be. As I said, I'm not writing him off - but age 34? With his hammies?

*shrugs* We'll see. I'll admit some of my points were hyperbolic, but still feel the strategy seemingly lined out with keeping so many old players on long central contracts is slightly worrying.