O'Driscoll- Best player of year?

[TNT88]

Conrad Smith has been the best #13 for the last 2 seasons IMO. But O'Driscoll can be considered in the top 3 I guess.

If you are looking for an achievement for your school project. You could make a good case for him being the best centre of the last decade.

 

[Jer1cho]

Conrad Smith has been the best #13 for the last 2 seasons IMO.

Conrad Smith? LOL Why? He is a good centre, yes, puts people into space, has a solid defense... But he never does anything special when comparing him to Brian O Driscoll. I rate Jaque Fourie far higher than Conrad Smith. Fourie is the third highest try scorer in SA rugby history, and he breaks the line regularly. A far better all round centre than Smith IMO. None of them come close to O'Driscoll in his prime though.

EDIT: Oh for the last 2 seasons? Maybe. meh.

 

[RyotoTheDragon]

For scoring try's Carter can't touch the OD, no way near. Different type of players one a kicking machine, the other a try scoring machine.

As for OD well,

Best centre of all time, his is up there.
Best Irish centre of all time, I think he is.
Best player of the decade, tough debate lots of great players lot's of specialist positions.
Best player ever as above but I would say no.

His records speak for themselves.

<_< i hope you think he is more than just that

 

[nickdnz]

Conrad Smith? LOL Why? He is a good centre, yes, puts people into space, has a solid defense... But he never does anything special when comparing him to Brian O Driscoll. I rate Jaque Fourie far higher than Conrad Smith. Fourie is the third highest try scorer in SA rugby history, and he breaks the line regularly. A far better all round centre than Smith IMO. None of them come close to O'Driscoll in his prime though.

EDIT: Oh for the last 2 seasons? Maybe. meh.

Disagree regarding Smith, I think it's too easy to under appreciate how good Smith is. Unlike Jaque Fourie, he makes all of his back three look brillaint, which no South African centre has done in the last 10 years. If we're looking at try scoring rates as a measure of great centres, then:

Tana Umaga: 36 tries in 74 tests (0.49)
Jaque Fourie: 32 tries in 68 tests (0.47)
Conrad Smith: 21 tries in 50 tests (0.42)
Brian O'Driscoll: 46 tries in 123 tests (0.36)

I can live with that.

 

[james5000]

Disagree regarding Smith, I think it's too easy to under appreciate how good Smith is. Unlike Jaque Fourie, he makes all of his back three look brillaint, which no South African centre has done in the last 10 years. If we're looking at try scoring rates as a measure of great centres, then:

Tana Umaga: 36 tries in 74 tests (0.49)
Jaque Fourie: 32 tries in 68 tests (0.47)
Conrad Smith: 21 tries in 50 tests (0.42)
Brian O'Driscoll: 46 tries in 123 tests (0.36)

I can live with that.

Most of Tana's tries were surely on the Wing

 

[Saintjay]

I'd rate him with Tana Umaga as the best centre from 2000-2009.
Best player of the decade? No. I'd pick McCaw and Carter above him (even if I am a Kiwi, I genuinely believe it).
Best player ever? No.
Best Irish Player Ever? Probably.
My disliked player of all time: Very close.

Try scoring machine? He's scored 46 test tries in 123 tests...To put that in perspective:
Christian Cullen: 46 test tries in 58 tests
Rokocoko: 46 test tries in 68 tests
Doug Howlett: 49 test tries in 62 tests
Shane Williams: 58 test tries in 88 tests
Jeff Wilson: 44 test tries in 60 tests
Jonah Lomu: 37 test tries in 63 tests
Tana Umaga: 36 test tries in 74 tests
David Campese: 64 test tries in 101 tests

As you can see, he has a considerably poorer record than any of them. The reason why he has so many tries is because he's played in more tests than anyone on earth barring George Gregan. Interestingly, Daniel Carter has score more test tries than any other 1st 5/8th in history, on top of scoring the most about of points. Daniel Carter has scored 29 test tries in 85 tests (.3418) and Brian O'Driscoll has scored 45 test tries in 123 tests (0.3658) so as you can see, there is virtually no difference between the two's try averages.

I don't think you can even compare Carter and McCaw two different positions, two different players. For me I would go for McCaw. I know there is alot more to Carters game, but again he is a very differnent player of O'Driscoll.

O'Driscoll is the 8th highest try scorer of all time, the fact he has survived 117 tests for Ireland speaks volumes. Most of the players around him on the try scoring record played on the wing/full back. He played 6 lions tests scoring one try.

It looks like you kept his lions caps but took off his Lions try

You also can't take away the fact he is the top try scorer in 6 nations history and in the Heinken cup with 29 either.

So is he the all time top try points scorer for a pure centre yes he is, will Carter beat that record if he reached 117 Tests I doubt it.

Why does he annoy you?

 

[ranger]

I don't think you can even compare Carter and McCaw two different positions, two different players. For me I would go for McCaw. I know there is alot more to Carters game, but again he is a very differnent player of O'Driscoll.

O'Driscoll is the 8th highest try scorer of all time, the fact he has survived 117 tests for Ireland speaks volumes. Most of the players around him on the try scoring record played on the wing/full back. He played 6 lions tests scoring one try.

It looks like you kept his lions caps but took off his Lions try

You also can't take away the fact he is the top try scorer in 6 nations history and in the Heinken cup with 29 either.

So is he the all time top try points scorer for a pure centre yes he is, will Carter beat that record if he reached 117 Tests I doubt it.

Why does he annoy you?

I'm still scratching my head over the kicking machine comment..

 

[lucky number 7]

Not sarcasm. The guy annoys me to no end.

He is seriously a top bloke mate

 

[james5000]

I don't think you can even compare Carter and McCaw two different positions, two different players. For me I would go for McCaw. I know there is alot more to Carters game, but again he is a very differnent player of O'Driscoll.

O'Driscoll is the 8th highest try scorer of all time, the fact he has survived 117 tests for Ireland speaks volumes. Most of the players around him on the try scoring record played on the wing/full back. He played 6 lions tests scoring one try.

It looks like you kept his lions caps but took off his Lions try

You also can't take away the fact he is the top try scorer in 6 nations history and in the Heinken cup with 29 either.

So is he the all time top try points scorer for a pure centre yes he is, will Carter beat that record if he reached 117 Tests I doubt it.

Why does he annoy you?

Don't know why your comparing Carters try scoring feats with O'Driscoll. Carter is by far and away the most prolific try scoring 1st 5/8th in the History of the game.
He has the best ratio and the most tries in his position, he is also one of the best goal kickers of all time.

O'Driscoll is a great player, but his try scoring feat is essentially only a record because of longevity. Its not really a factor that makes him so great.
He has an all round game, like Dan Carter.

Dan Carter is one of a kind, he has no weaknesses. He's probably the most complete player in any position in the history of the game.
The only factor that IMO brings him down is his lack of World Cup success, he hasn't done it on the biggest stage.
He is too brittle, his body has not survived the biggest moments in his career.

That in my mind makes Jonny Wilkinson a threat to Carter in the greatest 10 of the modern era debate. I'd still pick Carter, but Jonny would come close.

 

[nickdnz]

O'Driscoll is the 8th highest try scorer of all time, the fact he has survived 117 tests for Ireland speaks volumes. Most of the players around him on the try scoring record played on the wing/full back. He played 6 lions tests scoring one try.

It looks like you kept his lions caps but took off his Lions try

You also can't take away the fact he is the top try scorer in 6 nations history and in the Heinken cup with 29 either.

So is he the all time top try points scorer for a pure centre yes he is, will Carter beat that record if he reached 117 Tests I doubt it.

Why does he annoy you?

No, I included his one from the B&I Lions. He has only scored once and I believe that was against Australia. 45 Tries for Ireland and 1 for B&I Lions. 46 Test Tries.

As I mentioned, I never said he wasn't the top try scorer for a centre, however saying he is a try scoring machine is an exaggeration . His rate of scoring tries is fairly average. The fact that he's been playing for so long is impressive. But scoring at a lower rate than Conrad Smith, Tana Umaga, Jaque Fourie, Tim Horan, Gareth Thomas, Sterling Mortlock, Will Greenwood etc. I'm not saying he isn't a very good player, he's just not the prolific try scorer you make out. The reason why he is such a prolific try scorer in the 6-Nations and HCup, is because he's been playing in the competitions for 12 years. The only backs in Europe I can think of that have been playing anywhere near that long and made consistant selections is Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Wilkinson, Stephen Jones, Gareth Thomas, Chris Patterson and Peter Stringer.

Your argument is like saying Ronan O'Gara is a better player than Andrew Mehrtens and Diego Dominguez because he has scored 100 points more in international rugby, and then seemingly ignoring the fact he's played over 30 more tests.

As I mentioned earlier, Daniel Carter has scored more tries than any other 1st 5/8th in World Rugby and averages the most points (second is Andrew Mehrtens). To claims that BOD is a try scoring machine and Daniel Carter is not is rubbish.

Why does he annoy me? Several reasons:

1. His fans annoy me. A lot. You listen to them and it's like he's the greatest rugby player ever, which while he's good, I don't think he's that good. I have heard every last fan ***** and maon about a spear tackle that happened six years ago and the same people rules that the Warburton as an unfortunate mistake. There have been hundreds of spear tackles since the Umaga/Mealamu incident and yet people go mental over that one. The Irish press were amazing, some even calling it an attempt on BOD's life, while other call it the single worst act they've ever seen on a rugby field and that Umaga should be banned for life. Every Irish person I know says BOD, best player of all time, SOB best flanker in the world, Sexton is the next DC, Tommy Bowe is the best wing in the world and a majority of them fizzle into mediocrite, it's just in this instance BOD has been consistant.

2. My god, did he whinge and moan about it. Wouldn't talk to Umaga after the incident etc. I understand being annoyed, I've had my collar bone broken because someone was being an idiot doing a flip in martial arts and dumped me on a plank of wood. I was ******, but I accepted sh*t happens in a contact situation and after months of rehab I walked to the gym and shaked the guys hand.

3. People claim Brian O'Driscoll is god. Tana Umaga is god. I'm a Monotheist.

That in my mind makes Jonny Wilkinson a threat to Carter in the greatest 10 of the modern era debate. I'd still pick Carter, but Jonny would come close.

Johnny Wilkinson is the most breakable, injury prone, self-destructive back I know. That's not a dig, I'm sure every English fan will agree with me.

 

[Sam Owen]

O'Driscoll was quiet this year compared to his more glorious years. Good player, definately one of the best of the pro era. In terms of best player of the year, I wouldnt know who would deserve that because Ive only seen more of the Tri nations teams and theres good players worldwide, my best would have to be David Pocock.

 

[JW.]

Johnny Wilkinson is the most breakable, injury prone, self-destructive back I know. That's not a dig, I'm sure every English fan will agree with me.

That is true, alot of bad luck and an atitude that he had to do everything when that was just not needed from a Flyhalf, hit rucks, huuuge hits. Such a shame remember when he first came on the scene until 2003 he was so great, different than Carter but could've been just as good. Then injury hit.

Never liked O'Driscoll either one stupid thing sticks out in my mind, and that is after the 03 RWC Ireland beat England and at the after match diner, he stood up and said: 'if you are world champions what does that make us?'.... Losers Brian losers...

 

[Logorrhea]

I'm doing a project for school and need people's opinions on Brian O'Driscoll. Whether you like him, hate him or whatever.Give me your opinions.

He can run, pass, kick, tackle, catch and slot over the odd drop-goal.

He is the record try scorer in the 6 nations, Grand Slam winner, Triple Crown winner, Irelands greatest ever player, previous Leinster captain, two time HEC winner, Magners league wiiner, Ireland Captain, previous Leinster and Lions captain.

His try to game ratio wasnt as good as a lot of the new zealand or australian wingers but he didnt play on the wing, and most importantly, he didnt play for one of the two best teams in the world. A pretty stupid comparison that is unfortunately typical of this forum though.

Most importantly, he wasnt just an excellent centre, he was on many occasions the best 13 and the best 7 on the pitch. Finally, from a defensive aspect, O'Driscoll changed the way centres play the game, which changed the way the game was played. Cant think of any other 13 in history thats done that. Umaga came close, but only by forcing the authorities to improve the rules relating to player welfare and blatant spear tackles.

O'Driscoll was without doubt the best centre of the decade and hed be up with Carter, McCaw as one of the best players of the professional era.

Dont listen to the haters, they are going to hate.

 

[Saintjay]

No, I included his one from the B&I Lions. He has only scored once and I believe that was against Australia. 45 Tries for Ireland and 1 for B&I Lions. 46 Test Tries.

As I mentioned, I never said he wasn't the top try scorer for a centre, however saying he is a try scoring machine is an exaggeration . His rate of scoring tries is fairly average. The fact that he's been playing for so long is impressive. But scoring at a lower rate than Conrad Smith, Tana Umaga, Jaque Fourie, Tim Horan, Gareth Thomas, Sterling Mortlock, Will Greenwood etc. I'm not saying he isn't a very good player, he's just not the prolific try scorer you make out. The reason why he is such a prolific try scorer in the 6-Nations and HCup, is because he's been playing in the competitions for 12 years. The only backs in Europe I can think of that have been playing anywhere near that long and made consistant selections is Ronan O'Gara, Johnny Wilkinson, Stephen Jones, Gareth Thomas, Chris Patterson and Peter Stringer.

Your argument is like saying Ronan O'Gara is a better player than Andrew Mehrtens and Diego Dominguez because he has scored 100 points more in international rugby, and then seemingly ignoring the fact he's played over 30 more tests.

As I mentioned earlier, Daniel Carter has scored more tries than any other 1st 5/8th in World Rugby and averages the most points (second is Andrew Mehrtens). To claims that BOD is a try scoring machine and Daniel Carter is not is rubbish.

Why does he annoy me? Several reasons:

1. His fans annoy me. A lot. You listen to them and it's like he's the greatest rugby player ever, which while he's good, I don't think he's that good. I have heard every last fan ***** and maon about a spear tackle that happened six years ago and the same people rules that the Warburton as an unfortunate mistake. There have been hundreds of spear tackles since the Umaga/Mealamu incident and yet people go mental over that one. The Irish press were amazing, some even calling it an attempt on BOD's life, while other call it the single worst act they've ever seen on a rugby field and that Umaga should be banned for life. Every Irish person I know says BOD, best player of all time, SOB best flanker in the world, Sexton is the next DC, Tommy Bowe is the best wing in the world and a majority of them fizzle into mediocrite, it's just in this instance BOD has been consistant.

2. My god, did he whinge and moan about it. Wouldn't talk to Umaga after the incident etc. I understand being annoyed, I've had my collar bone broken because someone was being an idiot doing a flip in martial arts and dumped me on a plank of wood. I was ******, but I accepted sh*t happens in a contact situation and after months of rehab I walked to the gym and shaked the guys hand.

3. People claim Brian O'Driscoll is god. Tana Umaga is god. I'm a Monotheist.



Johnny Wilkinson is the most breakable, injury prone, self-destructive back I know. That's not a dig, I'm sure every English fan will agree with me.

See what happens when people ask for home work help

I think the spear tackle issue was blew up as it was as it was down to intent. A lot of people believed that it was done to take O'Driscol out of the series and it was an issue of intent.

Was it deliberate, only one person knows the real answer to that. Personaly I don't think it was.

As I said before comparing Carter to O'Driscoll is next to impossibe. They are both very different players. That is the problem with the best player debates, Campese, Lomu scored most of there trie's in the amateur era. Doe's that make them less as good? I am no way a O'Driscoll fan boy but I think for attacking running tries he is one of the best centres we have seen and is better than Carter in that regard. But again different positions diferent roles within the team.


Top tries 58 tests 69 Tries Daisuke Ohata is he better than Cullen. We all know he is not but stats and percentages can always show the reader what they want. If you looked at games played and percentages this guy from Japan is on fire. If you are going down the tests played tries scored route this guy is up there with the best. Playing for Japan doe's that make his achievment better or worse.

My arguement has been that you can't compare most players unless you really go in the fine details, keep it to that position alone, take into account the era, the opponents etc,etc. It is far to much to take into account even for the best player of all time arguement.

At best you would probably have to have teams of the decade and keep it at that. Would both Carter and O'Driscoll make that team, in my opion they would. Carter certainly.

As for the kicking machine that's not a negative I ment that Carter has a boot to die for his points kicking and tactical kicking again in my opion are second to none.

 

[ranger]

He can run, pass, kick, tackle, catch and slot over the odd drop-goal.

He is the record try scorer in the 6 nations, Grand Slam winner, Triple Crown winner, Irelands greatest ever player, previous Leinster captain, two time HEC winner, Magners league wiiner, Ireland Captain, previous Leinster and Lions captain.

His try to game ratio wasnt as good as a lot of the new zealand or australian wingers but he didnt play on the wing, and most importantly, he didnt play for one of the two best teams in the world. A pretty stupid comparison that is unfortunately typical of this forum though.

Most importantly, he wasnt just an excellent centre, he was on many occasions the best 13 and the best 7 on the pitch. Finally, from a defensive aspect, O'Driscoll changed the way centres play the game, which changed the way the game was played. Cant think of any other 13 in history thats done that. Umaga came close, but only by forcing the authorities to improve the rules relating to player welfare and blatant spear tackles.

O'Driscoll was without doubt the best centre of the decade and hed be up with Carter, McCaw as one of the best players of the professional era.

Dont listen to the haters, they are going to hate.

Umaga was one of the finest defenders and jacklers NZ rugby has ever seen. You can speak as highly of O'Driscoll as you want, but if you have no comprehension of what players from other countries are and were like, then just limit your worship to a national level. "Best in irish history", sure. Changed the way all centres play the game? please.

I think the spear tackle issue was blew up as it was as it was down to intent. A lot of people believed that it was done to take O'Driscol out of the series and it was an issue of intent.
Was it deliberate, only one person knows the real answer to that. Personaly I don't think it was.

As I said before comparing Carter to O'Driscoll is next to impossibe. They are both very different players. That is the problem with the best player debates, Campese, Lomu scored most of there trie's in the amateur era. Doe's that make them less as good? I am no way a O'Driscoll fan boy but I think for attacking running tries he is one of the best centres we have seen and is better than Carter in that regard. But again different positions diferent roles within the team. Top tries 58 tests 69 Tries Daisuke Ohata is he better than Cullen.

As for the kicking machine that's not a negative I ment that Carter has a boot to die for his points kicking and tactical kicking in my opion second to none.

I really can't understand how anyone could honestly think he was intentionally taken out. I mean, O'Driscoll had just played in a full strength lions side that went down to the NZ Maori. If the ethnic minority of a country can win against the lions with BOD on the field, why on earth wouldn't the All Blacks back themselves to take them on without carrying out villainous plots.

As for Carter, i don't even know about that. Goal and tactical kicking really isn't what defines him. O'Gara and Jones are great goal and tactical kickers. Carter is a great runner, passer, playmaker, defender, everything really. He will best be remembered for his game having no weaknesses, not anything in particular like kicking.

 

[lucky number 7]

In fairness to BOD it was often like having an extra backrow on the field and for a long time he compensated for Irelands lack of a fetcher almost singlehandedly , He continually changed his game to suit him as he matured , once his raw pace left him he became the smartest , one of the best defenders and toughest son of a ***** going.. In my opinion the man is a genius ..not for being good at one or two thing , but constantly adapting to his new circumstances and making himself top quality in everything he needed to..

His dedication and heart is unparalleled in my opinion.

 

[Saintjay]

Umaga was one of the finest defenders and jacklers NZ rugby has ever seen. You can speak as highly of O'Driscoll as you want, but if you have no comprehension of what players from other countries are and were like, then just limit your worship to a national level. "Best in irish history", sure. Changed the way all centres play the game? please.



I really can't understand how anyone could honestly think he was intentionally taken out. I mean, O'Driscoll had just played in a full strength lions side that went down to the NZ Maori. If the ethnic minority of a country can win against the lions with BOD on the field, why on earth wouldn't the All Blacks back themselves to take them on without carrying out villainous plots.

As for Carter, i don't even know about that. Goal and tactical kicking really isn't what defines him. O'Gara and Jones are great goal and tactical kickers. Carter is a great runner, passer, playmaker, defender, everything really. He will best be remembered for his game having no weaknesses, not anything in particular like kicking.

Yes he is a great player as for points kicking, I think it defines him to some degree an average of 14.7 points per game, all time record points scorer. Not a bad way of being defined.
He has so much to his game but he will be best remembered as the all time points scorer by most people. Not the best passer, runner, tackler.

 

[ranger]

In fairness to BOD it was often like having an extra backrow on the field and for a long time he compensated for Irelands lack of a fetcher almost singlehandedly , He continually changed his game to suit him as he matured , once his raw pace left him he became the smartest , one of the best defenders and toughest son of a ***** going.. In my opinion the man is a genius ..not for being good at one or two thing , but constantly adapting to his new circumstances and making himself top quality in everything he needed to..

His dedication and heart is unparalleled in my opinion.

It really is ironic just how many parallels there are between Umaga and BOD. Umaga was absolutely brilliant fetcher, which he is apparently very underrated for. In 1997ish he and Cullen were the two most feared broken play runners in NZ, then as he started to lose his pace he slotted into centre and became one of the smartest, best defenders and toughest son of a ***** going. Then as he realised his days were winding down, he changed his game up even more to move into 2nd 5 to personally mentor the next generation of midfielders in Nonu and Smith..
He was a great natural leader and was incredibly crucial to the All Blacks, he was the lynchpin and commader on defence, and the complete package on attack (offloads included)

The fact that there are two similar players out there with almost identical records etc but the Irish can still regard one as nothing and one as our lord and savior is irritating.

Yes he is a great player as for points kicking, I think it defines him to some degree an average of 14.7 points per game, all time record points scorer. Not a bad way of being defined.
He has so much to his game but he will be best remembered as the all time points scorer by most people. Not the best passer, runner, tackler.

I don't know about that champ.. we may have to run a poll. He will best be remembered as the most complete 10 we have ever produced. I cant speak for you but kicking points doesn't really mean alot to NZers. I mean, Andrew Mehrtens was a far better kicker, as was Preston and especially Fox. Hell, Stephen Donald is a wonderfull kicker, if all we needed was a kicking machine he would be playing the WC final this week

 

[nickdnz]

See what happens when people ask for home work help

I think the spear tackle issue was blew up as it was as it was down to intent. A lot of people believed that it was done to take O'Driscol out of the series and it was an issue of intent.

Was it deliberate, only one person knows the real answer to that. Personaly I don't think it was.

As I said before comparing Carter to O'Driscoll is next to impossibe. They are both very different players. That is the problem with the best player debates, Campese, Lomu scored most of there trie's in the amateur era. Doe's that make them less as good? I am no way a O'Driscoll fan boy but I think for attacking running tries he is one of the best centres we have seen and is better than Carter in that regard. But again different positions diferent roles within the team.


Top tries 58 tests 69 Tries Daisuke Ohata is he better than Cullen. We all know he is not but stats and percentages can always show the reader what they want. If you looked at games played and percentages this guy from Japan is on fire. If you are going down the tests played tries scored route this guy is up there with the best. Playing for Japan doe's that make his achievment better or worse.

My arguement has been that you can't compare most players unless you really go in the fine details, keep it to that position alone, take into account the era, the opponents etc,etc. It is far to much to take into account even for the best player of all time arguement.

At best you would probably have to have teams of the decade and keep it at that. Would both Carter and O'Driscoll make that team, in my opion they would. Carter certainly.

As for the kicking machine that's not a negative I ment that Carter has a boot to die for his points kicking and tactical kicking again in my opion are second to none.

I agree with most of this. Just to point out, Lomu scored pretty much all his tries in the professional era (ie 1995, when rugby went professional) the Ohata argument falls a bit when you consider he scored almost all his tries against tier 3 teams, but he still scored quite a few against good tier 1 teams (Wales springs to mind). My argument originally was just trying to point out that Carter is every bit the attacking player O'Driscoll was. Obviously try ratios aren't the sum of a players talent, specially in the midfield. I think a better mark of a great midfielder is how many tries the outside backs score.

As ranger says, his tactical kicking and goal kicking are more or less bonus'. I'd take Morne Steyn as a goal kicker any day of the week over Carter. The reason why he is as good as he is considered, is because of how he runs the backs, puts players in to space and is able to create individual brillaince. There isn't much he can't do. That's why his point ratio is so high, and the reason why he's scored most of his points in conversions and not penalties.

It really is ironic just how many parallels there are between Umaga and BOD. Umaga was absolutely brilliant fetcher, which he is apparently very underrated for. In 1997ish he and Cullen were the two most feared broken play runners in NZ, then as he started to lose his pace he slotted into centre and became one of the smartest, best defenders and toughest son of a ***** going. Then as he realised his days were winding down, he changed his game up even more to move into 2nd 5 to personally mentor the next generation of midfielders in Nonu and Smith..
He was a great natural leader and was incredibly crucial to the All Blacks, he was the lynchpin and commader on defence, and the complete package on attack (offloads included)

The fact that there are two similar players out there with almost identical records etc but the Irish can still regard one as nothing and one as our lord and savior is irritating.

That's very much my feelling. I'm sure the reason why O'Driscoll is so popular is because people have watched him for 12 years and made opinions based off that. Yet Tana Umaga is pretty much disregarded because of one test match. I don't think that there is any player in the professional era that has carried the amount of mana that Umaga had. You can listen to people from the Canes and the Cheifs and people from Toulon talk about Tana Umaga, and you realize just how much he influences his team. Even when Umaga's 34/35 years old, Toulon fans were excited about playing him back on the wing! I feel another player which always seems to be forgotten is Mortlock, who I've feared more when the AB's played him than just about any other player.

 

[Saintjay]

My bad about Lomu for some reason I thought he started earlier, I think I am still haunted by what he did to England in 1995. Prehaps not as much as Rob Andrew

I prehaps could have put it a little better. As rugby fans we know about Carter's whole game that is what defines him. How ever to the history books and the average person on the street they will just know his record points scored.

The average man or most people on the street not just rugby fans here in the U.K probably know Carter as the all time top points scorer, pretty much how they would see Wilkinson just as a great kicker because of his points scoring record.

I don't know I could see a street corner poll here as going "Do you know Dan Carter" reply "Yeah" "And what do you know about him" reply "Erm he scores lots of points" Ask the average person who Richie McCaw is they would just blink at you, as a rugby fan most would say probably one of the best players of the decade if not all time.