NZ test dominance: Do we need two teams?

[Ali AK9]

No, keep the All Black's exactly how they are. It simply doesn't seem like a good idea. They can be ahead on the rankings all the day by however many points but the reality is that they are beatable. Not easily but they can be beaten. The reason they are really ahead is because them and England both had teams that didn't really look like they had what it takes to win the series. Ireland were very competitive and South Africa under a new coach trying to play a different style struggled a bit. New Zealand won their matches with big margins due to their late surges, except for the third test, and the big margins show on the rankings. I think the 2 teams on their best that can currently beat the All Black's are England and South Africa.

 

[Jaguares]

Considering most kiwi's have said it's a stupid thread - not sure why you want to try and take yet another dig. You also seem to know very little about New Zealand sports.

Well, the All-time Commonwealth Medal table proves that OZ beat NZ consistently in almost all the sports:

Isn't it?

That proves that OZ is very good at sports beating bigger countries like England, India and South Africa. That's one of fhe reason why I bet that OZ would be better than NZ in Union if the code was more big there.

 

[smartcooky]

Well, the All-time Commonwealth Medal table proves that OZ beat NZ consistently in almost all the sports:

Isn't it?

That proves that OZ is very good at sports beating bigger countries like England, India and South Africa. That's one of fhe reason why I bet that OZ would be better than NZ in Union if the code was more big there.

All very interesting I'm sure, to anyone who is interested in this sort of stuff

However, I fail to see its relevance to an idea that, best most of us think is stupid and pointless, and at worst, is hubris bordering on arrogance.

I think you are trying to have a fight that no-one else wants to participate in.

Mods, IMO this thread has run its course, please close it before it starts to become even more silly.

 

[Sker]

Screw ye bunch of bloody NZ ********. Poisoning Francois Pienaar and stealing the cup back in '95. Bunch of cheaters.

Am I doing this thread right?

 

[Jaguares]

All very interesting I'm sure, to anyone who is interested in this sort of stuff

However, I fail to see its relevance to an idea that, best most of us think is stupid and pointless, and at worst, is hubris bordering on arrogance.

I think you are trying to have a fight that no-one else wants to participate in.

Mods, IMO this thread has run its course, please close it before it starts to become even more silly.

Well, I agree with you. This thread should have closed from the outset. It's a silly topic. Even the Kiwis don't support the topic, it's just the idea of a teenager: "How good we are". Is Beauden Barrett faster than Flash? Is Jerome Kaino stronger than Superman? Could SBW beat Jon Jones in a UFC fight?

 

[eidde]

Thanks guys - got me answer didn't I.....

This place is great :bravo:

 

[smartcooky]

Screw ye bunch of bloody NZ ********. Poisoning Francois Pienaar and stealing the cup back in '95. Bunch of cheaters.

Am I doing this thread right?

Yup. On the money!!

 

[first5eight]

No, not a good idea imo.

It does raise a good question tho, how much depth do we have, and how good is it? To run with your hypothetical, yes i do think we could field 2 squads of 23 and they would be in the top 5, if not the top 3 of world rugby. Now I know there is a fair bit of anti-kiwiness on this board. Its gone from being "you guy always choke, you cant win when its matters" to "you guys are to arrogant and bighead yada yada" I guess that's a natural progession when that's the last straw you have, to hang onto.

But back to your question: I guess the best way to get a scope on it, in the modern age, is how the lions have got on here. Next year we will get to see how the best of the best in Britain go aganist our Super Sides minus their All Blacks, that'll be a fair indication of things. The Maori v The Lions really will be 2nd best players of the 4 home nations up against basically out 2nd XV. Even tho its 4 countries/principalities against 1 it will give an indication of where things sit.

 

[eidde]

thanks first5eight.

Good call re gauging it by lions - issue is tho that they have to play a lot more rugby than any of their opposition during that tour - 10 matches over 35 days is a really big ask. Can't wait though!
Actually another issue with this is that the South Island and North Island 23s would both have access to all their current AB's. Can't tell at this stage, but i would be surprised if the AB's release their front-line players for the super rugby matches, meaning that none of those sides will be anywhere near their usual strength, let alone the strength of a full island team. I've taken a stab at teams off the top of my head below, and can't see NZ maori getting a team as good as either of these on the park.

15 Ben Smith__________Israel Dagg
14 Waisake Naholo_____Julian Savea
13 Malakai Fekitoa______George Moala
12 Ryan Crotty________Seta Tamanivalu
11 Patrick Osbourne____Nehe Milner-Scudder
10 Lima Sopoaga_______Beauden Barret
9 Aaron Smith_________TJ Perenara
8 Kieran Reid__________Jerome Kaino
7 Matt Todd__________Ardie Savea
6 Elliot Dixon__________Sam Cane
5 Sam Whitelock_______Patrick Tuitulopu
4 Luke Romano________Brodie Retallick
3 Wyatt Crockett______Charlie Faumuina
2 Codie Taylor_________Dane Coles
1 Owen Franks_________Ofa Tu'ungafasi

16 Ben Funnell_________Nathan Harris
17 Joe Moody__________Ben Franks
18 Josh Hohneck_______Loni Uhila
19 Jimmy Tupou________Stephen Luatua
20 Liam Squire_________Akira Ioane
21 Mitchell Drummond___Tawera Kerr-Barlow
22 Richie Mo'unga_______Aaron Cruden
23 Matt Faddes________Damian Mckenzie

How mouth-watering is that for a clash? And which international team would find either of these an easy-beat?

Edited to swap Sam Cane and Jerome Kaino

 

[TRF_heineken]

Yup, I agree with @smartcooky here, this thread has run it's course.

But as a closing argument to @Jaguares, your argument towards the commonwealth games is a moot point. First of all, Australia send nearly twice as many athletes as what South Africa and New Zealand does. So they have more chances at winning medals. Not really any argument worth having here.