[November Tests 2016 EOYT] England vs. South Africa (12/11/2016)

[TRF_heineken]

This what scares me the most. Jones was able to beat the Springboks with Japan (after having a plan just like now) and imagine what he will be able to do with England against us.

Perhaps. But then again, AC might also have a plan.

Remember that they worked together under Jake White, and know each other pretty well.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Form what I can see we have a few big weak spots. The most glaring for me is I question how effective we are going to be at the breakdown. England don't have what I would call an impactful specialist in this area either but generally speaking I feel working as a pack rather than delegating responsibility in this area is more a NH thing and I expect England will dominate us here.

With Le Roux there, so-so halves and the huge question marks surrounding our midfield make-up continuing I expect a struggle to play in the England half and a lack of cohesiveness in the back ITO both defensive structure and attacking play.

Good to see both Faf and Combrinck back in the mix though. Not that it matters as just looking at the selections I can tell we have not yet sorted out our identity crisis. Hope the pack somehow manages and puts us in with a shout. Whatever happened to Marx and Jaco Kriel? Out of favor? Also disappointed RJvR hasn't gotten the gig ahead of DdA who I havn't seen do anything to suggest he has gotten back on the horse.

I think England will should end their drought against us sadly.

 

[Zed]

I think if Bokke can score early on and get to halftime with the scores roughy even I think they can knock over England, but if England get 10 points up early doors, they'll fold like a cheap suit and it'll be a hiding.

 

[Sotavalta]

Form what I can see we have a few big weak spots. The most glaring for me is I question how effective we are going to be at the breakdown. England don't have what I would call an impactful specialist in this area either but generally speaking I feel working as a pack rather than delegating responsibility in this area is more a NH thing and I expect England will dominate us here.

With Le Roux there, so-so halves and the huge question marks surrounding our midfield make-up continuing I expect a struggle to play in the England half and a lack of cohesiveness in the back ITO both defensive structure and attacking play.

Good to see both Faf and Combrinck back in the mix though. Not that it matters as just looking at the selections I can tell we have not yet sorted out our identity crisis. Hope the pack somehow manages and puts us in with a shout. Whatever happened to Marx and Jaco Kriel? Out of favor? Also disappointed RJvR hasn't gotten the gig ahead of DdA who I havn't seen do anything to suggest he has gotten back on the horse.

I think England will should end their drought against us sadly.

I don't know about Marx, but I think Jaco Kriel is injured. I do agree that we are going to have a problem at the breakdown.

 

[saulan]

Whatever happened to Marx and Jaco Kriel? Out of favor? Also disappointed RJvR hasn't gotten the gig ahead of DdA who I havn't seen do anything to suggest he has gotten back on the horse.

Kriel is injured and Mbonambi has been played on the bench the most out of him and Marx, nothing unfamiliar from AC in that regard.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Form what I can see we have a few big weak spots. The most glaring for me is I question how effective we are going to be at the breakdown. England don't have what I would call an impactful specialist in this area either but generally speaking I feel working as a pack rather than delegating responsibility in this area is more a NH thing and I expect England will dominate us here.

With Le Roux there, so-so halves and the huge question marks surrounding our midfield make-up continuing I expect a struggle to play in the England half and a lack of cohesiveness in the back ITO both defensive structure and attacking play.

Good to see both Faf and Combrinck back in the mix though. Not that it matters as just looking at the selections I can tell we have not yet sorted out our identity crisis. Hope the pack somehow manages and puts us in with a shout. Whatever happened to Marx and Jaco Kriel? Out of favor? Also disappointed RJvR hasn't gotten the gig ahead of DdA who I havn't seen do anything to suggest he has gotten back on the horse.

I think England will should end their drought against us sadly.

Jaco Kriel is injured. He pulled out the week before flying to the North. As for Marx, his biggest weakness at the moment is his lineout throwing (not that Mbonambi is so much better than him though). But Marx's confidence is down because of the lashing he got against NZ and against the Baabaas, there weren't so much improvement.

As for the ruck situation. I think we will see Whiteley, Beast, Koch and Lood going in to steal the ball, while Etzebeth, PSDT, Alberts and Koch and Strauss will do the cleaning. And I think there will be some sort of pairings being done.

What we did saw in the Baabaas game was our guys trying to rip the ball more in the tackle area.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I think if Bokke can score early on and get to halftime with the scores roughy even I think they can knock over England, but if England get 10 points up early doors, they'll fold like a cheap suit and it'll be a hiding.

I can't see us chase a game either.

I don't know about Marx, but I think Jaco Kriel is injured. I do agree that we are going to have a problem at the breakdown.

Kriel is injured and Mbonambi has been played on the bench the most out of him and Marx, nothing unfamiliar from AC in that regard.

Jaco Kriel is injured. He pulled out the week before flying to the North. As for Marx, his biggest weakness at the moment is his lineout throwing (not that Mbonambi is so much better than him though). But Marx's confidence is down because of the lashing he got against NZ and against the Baabaas, there weren't so much improvement.

As for the ruck situation. I think we will see Whiteley, Beast, Koch and Lood going in to steal the ball, while Etzebeth, PSDT, Alberts and Koch and Strauss will do the cleaning. And I think there will be some sort of pairings being done.

What we did saw in the Baabaas game was our guys trying to rip the ball more in the tackle area.

Pity Kriel is injured. Marcel Coetzee also out injured. I think we've all forgotten about Pollard at this stage. De Klerk and Combrinck are only now back from injury. Who knows what sort of form they might be in. To me it almost feels like a full 3rd of our 'probable strongest team' is injured at any given point and another 3rd simply not selected for whatever reason while the remaining 3rd is generally made up of players who are merely there for their experience and propping up the caps column. To me it feels like this has been the case since 2013. This on top of perceived (or 'real'?) coaching inadequacies and political interference has made being a SA rugby fan very frustrating. Now the WPRU (well part of but a pretty critical part of) is being liquidated as well. Not that I'm overly surprised. Someone please give me a big positive!?

 

[TRF_heineken]

I can't see us chase a game either.







Pity Kriel is injured. Marcel Coetzee also out injured. I think we've all forgotten about Pollard at this stage. De Klerk and Combrinck are only now back from injury. Who knows what sort of form they might be in. To me it almost feels like a full 3rd of our 'probable strongest team' is injured at any given point and another 3rd simply not selected for whatever reason while the remaining 3rd is generally made up of players who are merely there for their experience and propping up the caps column. To me it feels like this has been the case since 2013. This on top of perceived (or 'real'?) coaching inadequacies and political interference has made being a SA rugby fan very frustrating. Now the WPRU (well part of but a pretty critical part of) is being liquidated as well. Not that I'm overly surprised. Someone please give me a big positive!?

Well. I think with Lambie and Combrink in the backline we have enough kicking power to keep the poms back, and with 5 lineout jumpers in the pack, it seems like our lineouts will be a weapon.

If they use the quick trow-in tactic, we have good chasers in JPP, Le Roux and Combrink. I think AC has picked this team with plan in having safeguards for whatever plan the opposition try to use to get in front of us. Then we have a pretty explosive bench, that can chase the game if we get behind.

 

[SomeOke]

Let's do this, I've got my beers for the game, a litre of gin for after, time to get sad drunk!

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yup! We have 5 lineout options, and Whiteley has been an option during the RC, he's actually a pretty good lineout jumper. And According to AC's discussion yesterday with the SA media, he said that there will be a focus on the driving maul. With this pack, and the dress-rehearsal we had against the Baa-baas, I think we will use it as a weapon.

That is what I feared. Robshaw is an option as well for England, but mainly he's a second jumper, so easy to mark (see Wales match in RWC and that lineout that cost England the match). So 4 v 5, but still in SA's favour.

 

[spartan32]

I'm gobsmacked Mike Brown is still in the England setup. Very ordinary, he does the basics well, but that's it, his running lines and attacking in general are poor, he has this very strange tendency to almost stop when he steps and loses all of his pace, compared to someone like Cullen who would be stepping whilst going flat out. Yarde has had some good games, but I didn't think he had a great series against Australia, for a big quick lad, doesn't seem to have much power. I'm not a fan of Owen Farrell either, but I thought he and Ford played well against Australia. So IMO not a great backline, but a pretty solid forward pack.

I think if England can get Tuilagi back, perhaps someone like Daly at 13, Youngs & Ford at 9/10, Watson (he was good down under) back on the wing and a new fullback and wing they'll have a very, very good side.

Brown usually beats at least two men every time he gets the ball, and always makes ground. He's usually rock solid under the high ball, and his positioning is usually impeccable. Hence why he's still there. In addition there is no other viable alternative. I suspect EJ has one of the current crop in mind to replace him. Nowell, Watson, maybe Daly in a halfpenny style?

Faz is arguably one of the best 10s in the world at the moment. I'd put him up there with Barret, Foley and Sexton. I think Ford is lucky we don't have a viable 12 option for now, otherwise he'd be on the bench.

Yard, when playing well, can be quite a handful. He's big, strong and fast, but his form is inconsistent. I have to assume he's impressed in training because that should be Rokos spot.

In fact as a backline, given half decent conditions, they could be pretty electric. May, Daly and Yard can all really move, and May has wonderful footwork when his tail is up, and Daly is lethal on the outside arc, and having two skilled playmakers inside should provide plenty of decent ball to do something with.

The issue will it be the backs, but the forwards. SA are coming heavy and very tall which is going to make the set piece very difficult for England. I expect there will be a lot of balls kicked for touch with the Saffers looking to boss the line out and then maul it up the pitch. Our backline are going to have to play out of their socks.
In addition the weather looks to be favouring that up the jumper game. So it could be a long, and slightly dull, afternoon.

 

[Ospervat]

[FONT=&quot]The Springbok team to face England at Twickenham:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]15. Willie le Roux (Canon Eagles (Japan)), 39 caps, 45 points
14. Ruan Combrinck (Xerox Golden Lions), 4 caps, 13 points
13. Francois Venter (Toyota Free State Cheetahs), uncapped
12. Damian de Allende (DHL Western Province), 20 caps, 10 points
11. JP Pietersen (Leicester Tigers (England)), 69 caps, 120 points
10. Patrick Lambie (vice-captain) (Cell C Sharks), 53 caps, 137 points
9. Rudy Paige (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 5 caps, 0 points
8. Warren Whiteley (Docomo Red Hurricanes (Japan)), 12 caps, 15 points
7. Pieter-Steph du Toit (DHL Western Province), 17 caps, 15 points
6. Willem Alberts (Stade Francais (France)), 41 caps, 35 points
5. Lood de Jager (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 25 caps, 20 points
4. Eben Etzebeth (DHL Western Province), 53 caps, 10 points
3. Vincent Koch (Saracens (England)), 7 caps, 0 points
2. Adriaan Strauss (captain) (Vodacom Blue Bulls), 63 caps, 30 points
1. Tendai Mtawarira (Cell C Sharks), 84 caps, 10 points
Replacements
16. Bongi Mbonambi (DHL Western Province), 3 caps, 0 points
17. Steven Kitshoff (Bordeaux (France)), 7 caps, 0 points
18. Lourens Adriaanse (Cell C Sharks), 4 caps, 0 points
19. Franco Mostert (Ricoh Black Rams (Japan)), 4 caps, 0 points
20. Nizaam Carr (DHL Western Province), 2 caps, 0 points
21. Faf de Klerk (Xerox Golden Lions), 8 caps, 0 points
22. Johan Goosen (Racing 92 (France)), 10 caps, 20 points
23. Lionel Mapoe (Kubota Spears (Japan)), 9 caps, 0 points


http://www.sarugby.net/news/springboks-shuffle-team-clash-england/[/FONT]

Just seen the team. Oh dear.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

I just can't see SA pulling this one off.
I suspect they will go in playing to whatever plan but will get rattled at some point then revert to kind.

England by 15.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Not much experience on the bench...

 

[Colombia]

Jones is making me nervous with this talk of having a plan to deal with the Boks. Usually i would write it of as pre match mind games but i swear he said the same thing as Japan coach. Hopefully we were complacent on that day.

The Bok pack is positively monstrous, Eddie's plans are going to count for jack-sh*t if they get a rumble on.

The best coaches in the world can be made to look like clueless onlookers by what takes place on the field.

 

[McTallshort]

Cannot believe Im going to have to go to the pub and watch this tomorrow, what a bummer if only it was on terrestrial TV and I could sit at home and drink tea while its on...

 

[Colombia]

The Boks are going to steamroll England who are ill-equipped to deal with their physicality. Australian forwards dominated England for the whole game in the second test and they are relative pusswads. The Bok forwards are two steps up again and England don't have the nous in the backs to counter-act it. On top of that, the conditions favour forwards rugby, no favours from Garces, England in trouble.

 

[TommiG88]

The Boks are going to steamroll England who are ill-equipped to deal with their physicality. Australian forwards dominated England for the whole game in the second test and they are relative pusswads. The Bok forwards are two steps up again and England don't have the nous in the backs to counter-act it. On top of that, the conditions favour forwards rugby, no favours from Garces, England in trouble.

I have no idea why hadn't got you on ignore yet, you may join valleycommando there.

 

[spartan32]

Jerome Garces! Sigh. He's a weiry bugger. And from memory not great a reading the breakdowns, and generally isn't our friend. A bit of a plus for the Saffers there me thinks. On the other hand they clearly have one plan. Steamroll England. Should that fails they'll be out of ideas. We just need to move the ball around quickly and away from the contact areas and knacker out that chuncky back row. Still not worried. If a team comes to a game with a one dimensional game plan with a tactical genius like EJ at the helm relying on the weather conditions on the day that's pretty foolish.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I have no idea why hadn't got you on ignore yet, you may join valleycommando there.

He's kind of got a point about the conditions. If it turns into an arm wrestle I can see fairly early entrances for Attwood, Hughes, Te'o and George.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

He's kind of got a point about the conditions. If it turns into an arm wrestle I can see fairly early entrances for Attwood, Hughes, Te'o and George.

I don't really think a coach like Mr Jones will let it get to an arm wrestle with the Boks. He's a ta tactician and I expect a game plan built around defeating this specific Bok.

As for our forwards, well they will smash this lazy fat Bok team up and down the park. That's what I keep telling myself, whether it's true or not I have to believe we will or we're all doomed!