NH Domestic Rugby > SH Domestic Rugby

[Jockstap]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Oct 20 2009, 03:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

These threads are starting to annoy me now. Why couldn't you just post this in the other thread? Sometimes i wish i had the power to wipe these stupid threads when they can be placed in the billions that are already open about this topic.[/b]

What other thread?

 

[Jer1cho]

http://www.therugbyforum.com/forum/index.p...mp;#entry417224

 

[Juan VdS]

In fairness, I wasn't expecting it to be the other way around. It's like when you have dinner at your mother in law's place. You will say the food was delicious and that you don't mind about taking the dog for a walk.

As Jer1cho pointed out in another thread, it's blatantly pointless to compare both competitions.

 

[shazbooger]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jer1cho @ Oct 19 2009, 02:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Am i the only one who believes that you can't compare the 2?

Come on guys. Both tournaments are fantastic entertainment, and i don't think that one is better than the other. I love the H Cup, because there are so many players from all over the world playing in it. It showcases some of the best rugby on the planet thanks to there being stars in almost every team. It's a competition that produces great games because there are so many teams that can beat anyone else on their day. Upsets happen every week, and some great rugby is produced when the power-houses collide. With 6 countries involved, it's no wonder the competition is so exciting to watch.

The Super 14 only has 3 Countries involved, with horrible travel schedules, and usually the same names every year. But, the teams are still made up of the best players from the top 3 teams in world rugby. The real big names are players in this tournament, and some even say that a few games match the intensity of a New Zealand vs South Africa game. The running games are fantastic, and the strength of some of the teams are incredible. The Bulls team that won it earlier this year, are in my opinion, good enough to beat every NH international side (readies umbrella...) when they are in the form they showed this year.

Geographical locations, and players actually having lives prevents us from having a world league, but once instant teleportation is invented, we can look forward to the real greatest tournament on earth.

Some differences i have notice:

-The Super 14 has a much faster pace than the H' Cup, with the running game being far more dominant down here.
- The H' Cup is a lot more structured, as well as organized when it comes to schedules
- The H' Cup produces more nail-biters, thanks to there being so many teams, whereas the S14 have the really big guns only getting upset once or twice a season.
- The Super 14 is more physical. I have watched every H' Cup game so far, and have seen some really big hits, but no team hits as hard as the ones we have down here. The breakdowns are ferocious in the Super14, and there are at least 3-4 blood bins a game (real ones that is... cough)
- The H'Cup have more exciting teams. This is a no-brainer. Internationals from all over playing in one team, against another with their own set of internationals is just awesome.

There are a couple more, but i'm a little lazy to list them all. But in conclusion, both tournaments are great, each with their own advantages and disadvantages. Any, and every opinion here will be purely based on personal opinion, more than that, it's unfair to say.[/b]

Stop talking sense! It has no place in this thread!

 

[Jockstap]

Nowhere in my post was I saying that the HC was better than the Super 14, I was just posting a SH player's point of view of the two tournaments.

 

[Jer1cho]

...

 

[shazbooger]

Jean De Villiers says Heineken Cup is a higher standard than Super14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

http://www.keo.co.za/2009/10/13/jdv-enjoyi...ropean-sojourn/

Jean de Villiers says the standard of the European Cup is just as tough as the Super 14.

De Villiers’ Munster went down to Northampton 31-27 in the first round of the northern hemisphere club showpiece and have a fixture against Treviso â€" who shocked French champs Perpignan â€" on Saturday. The Springbok centre was impressed with the quality of rugby in comparison with the southern hemisphere provincial competition.

‘It’s definitely right up there,’ De Villiers said of the standard. ‘Tough, very physical, good pace to the game and the skills levels of the guys are pretty high.

‘For me it was very enjoyable and just as tough as any of the Super 14 games I’ve played anywhere.’

De Villiers has played three matches for the Irish club, of which they’ve lost two. The entire squad needs to fire and De Villiers intimated it will take a few matches to become accustomed to his new team-mates

‘It was obviously disappointing to lose the game but it was a great experience. Unfortunately we didn’t get the win but I’m looking forward to playing at Thomond Park this weekend and hopefully we can get a win under our belts.

‘It’s about getting comfortable in the team and your role in the squad, but I think it’s getting better each week.’

De Villiers, who is missing out on a Newlands semi-final this weekend, said the atmosphere in Europe was just as electric, but a different experience due to the smaller crowds.

‘The atmosphere was really really good. Back home we’ve usually got bigger stadiums but it’s harder to fill them. Here they’re smaller so you really feel the crowd close to you. The atmosphere was fantastic,’ he said.

‘And to see the travelling support for Munster was awesome. Probably because of distances we don’t really have that at home. So again for me that was a great experience, very enjoyable.’

Yet another SH player confirming the HC is on par with the Super 14.[/b]

 

[Jer1cho]

Fool, he didn't say higher standard! He said It's 'just as' tough, enjoyable etc etc.

Exactly what i have been trying to say. Stop it now!

 

[shazbooger]

He implied it.

I didnt actually read the article but I'm assuming thats what he said.

if he didnt say it, it was only because hes from the SH.

 

[Jockstap]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Oct 20 2009, 03:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Jean De Villiers says Heineken Cup is a higher standard than Super14

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

http://www.keo.co.za/2009/10/13/jdv-enjoyi...ropean-sojourn/

Jean de Villiers says the standard of the European Cup is just as tough as the Super 14.

De Villiers’ Munster went down to Northampton 31-27 in the first round of the northern hemisphere club showpiece and have a fixture against Treviso â€" who shocked French champs Perpignan â€" on Saturday. The Springbok centre was impressed with the quality of rugby in comparison with the southern hemisphere provincial competition.

‘It’s definitely right up there,’ De Villiers said of the standard. ‘Tough, very physical, good pace to the game and the skills levels of the guys are pretty high.

‘For me it was very enjoyable and just as tough as any of the Super 14 games I’ve played anywhere.’

De Villiers has played three matches for the Irish club, of which they’ve lost two. The entire squad needs to fire and De Villiers intimated it will take a few matches to become accustomed to his new team-mates

‘It was obviously disappointing to lose the game but it was a great experience. Unfortunately we didn’t get the win but I’m looking forward to playing at Thomond Park this weekend and hopefully we can get a win under our belts.

‘It’s about getting comfortable in the team and your role in the squad, but I think it’s getting better each week.’

De Villiers, who is missing out on a Newlands semi-final this weekend, said the atmosphere in Europe was just as electric, but a different experience due to the smaller crowds.

‘The atmosphere was really really good. Back home we’ve usually got bigger stadiums but it’s harder to fill them. Here they’re smaller so you really feel the crowd close to you. The atmosphere was fantastic,’ he said.

‘And to see the travelling support for Munster was awesome. Probably because of distances we don’t really have that at home. So again for me that was a great experience, very enjoyable.’

Yet another SH player confirming the HC is on par with the Super 14.[/b]

[/b][/quote]


Hmm, this post looks famillar.

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Logorrhea @ Oct 19 2009, 04:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

He implied it.

I didnt actually read the article but I'm assuming thats what he said.

if he didnt say it, it was only because hes from the SH.[/b]

How old are you?

*EDIT. Nevermind...

 

[Sir Speedy]

I, like, just merged, like, the topics. Like.

Hope you don't mind. :blush:

 

[Jer1cho]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sir. Speedy @ Oct 19 2009, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I, like, just merged, like, the topics. Like.

Hope you don't mind. :blush:[/b]

:bravo: :mellow: :huh: <_<

 

[erwanseb]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Juan VdS @ Oct 19 2009, 09:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

As Jer1cho pointed out in another thread, it's blatantly pointless to compare both competitions.[/b]

I will not enter the debate about which competition is better, which is indeed pointless but it is certainly not pointless to compare them in order to improve the lot.

The key ingredient of the heineken cup success is, I believe, the right mix between grassroots rugby and international rugby.
The blend is just right, with deeply rooted century old clubs (Stade Francais founded around 1880), with legendary past and history, now packed with world class international players from all over the world clashing in sometimes epic struggle.
The s14 provide probably the same, but the cultural,historical dimension is somehow missing.

HC is played everywhere throughout Europe, at reasonnable price, and is very accessible to the average rugby fan, unlike international rugby games for which ticket are both prohibitive and hardly easy to get.

Wherever you live, it is possible to watch at least a game during the season (not having the Indian Ocean to cross obviously helps), from Italy to Spain, France and Romania with Belgium soon visited without forgetting Limerick or Bath (the most beautiful English city and only one listed by the UNESCO world heritage site), so the HC is really an international competition with a local base. Geography, shorter distance, and integrated European transportation system is of course something the s14 cannot copy.

I believe the weakness of the S14 is probably to have lost touch with grassroots rugby, replacing provinces by franchises with automatic qualifying berth in the competition has removed the identity factor.
Some in the SH will scream, saying that the s14 franchises are born from existing provinces, but it is nevertheless the way I feel it.
And that is probably the biggest danger facing NZ and Oz, placing all your bets on the money making s14 and tri-nations and neglecting the local rugby (when existing). The questions surrounding the sustainability of ANZ cup are clearly the tip of the iceberg.
The strength and popularity of the Currie cup leaves SA on a different path, more sustainable in the long term.

 

[g6mcg]

Just to add my inconsidered, unjustified view.

The Heineken is a better spectacle (mor dramatic/competetive etc) but the S14 offers a better quality of rugby. Though it may be I enjoy the HC more becuase I know the teams...and I've been to games to experience the atmosphere. I only have bits of pub viewing for the S14. (Maybe that's why it looks so good!)

 

[Jethro]

The Southern tournaments don't seem to have any problems producing international players, similar to the Northern really. Apples and oranges imho, competitions should be organised for local markets as that will be what defines them end of day. NZ can and should support a 14 team ANZC leading to S14 level. South Africa have their internal competitions leading to S14, Australia has ... well ... JON keeps telling us we don't need a national competition or something.

 

[feicarsinn]

I don't get why they can't have the Currie Cup, ANZC and an Aussie domestic league(maybe state teams with one or two others thrown in just to bulk up numbers) and bring in a champions league format for the SANZAR tournament with the top 4 from each league going in or something. Is it just financial?