New Zealand v Tonga

[big ginger 8]

Think N.Z. will play a full strength team (apart from Read obviously) up till about the 50 minute mark when they'll start rolling on the subs. Don't forget this isn't just N.Z.'s first game but the first game of the tournament so as all eyes will be on them they'll play a strong side.

 

[Icemn]

Read and Thomson will miss the first game (Read is actually missing most of the pool stage).

What do you think GH will do? I see two options:

One option is to use the fact that Thomson is injured and replace him permanently by Messam, or

Use Whitelock as a loose forward cover on the bench. He looked all right at 6 against Oz, I think.

vito and kaino is there aswell....

 

[Icemn]

Read and Thomson will miss the first game (Read is actually missing most of the pool stage).

What do you think GH will do? I see two options:

One option is to use the fact that Thomson is injured and replace him permanently by Messam, or

Use Whitelock as a loose forward cover on the bench. He looked all right at 6 against Oz, I think.

keep in mind the world cup rules!!!

if messam was to replace thomson or read... than Read or thompson can not compete in the wc... so i think they are going to Wait for Read to recover...

 

[ZeFrenchy]

keep in mind the world cup rules!!!

if messam was to replace thomson or read... than Read or thompson can not compete in the wc... so i think they are going to Wait for Read to recover...

Yeah, I know. There's no doubt about the starting backrow (Kaino, McCaw and Vito), but then there's no loose forward left for the bench, that was actually the question.

And about Thomson not coming back... I think GH must be having second thoughts about his place in the 30 man squad. I'd call back Messam and leave Thomson out permanently, and that can only be done in case of injury (btw, I was supporting Thomson for the matchday 22, but after the two horrible games he's had, I've change my mind)

 

[UilamOsa]

Alright, let me tell you something smartcooky, we islanders have heart and when it comes to playing for our country we're gonna give it everything we have, if we believe we can achieve, maybe i was smoking something other than tabacco and sipping on heineken when i predicted the way the score will come out but hey im sticcing with that score... 28-24 to tonga.

Good on ya Uso.

I have to go with my head and my heart. After the last 2 results, as tough as Tonga are and as strong as they will be in NZ. I'm think a Richie and the Boys won't be happy with anything but a 50+.

It's in NZ. It's the Opening match. They're coming off a two match losing streak. Questions are being asked of them. They will want too send a send message to NZ'ers, Haters, and the rest of the RWC teams.

 

[Darwin]

Yeah, I know. There's no doubt about the starting backrow (Kaino, McCaw and Vito), but then there's no loose forward left for the bench, that was actually the question.

And about Thomson not coming back... I think GH must be having second thoughts about his place in the 30 man squad. I'd call back Messam and leave Thomson out permanently, and that can only be done in case of injury (btw, I was supporting Thomson for the matchday 22, but after the two horrible games he's had, I've change my mind)

Henry has already confirmed that Sam Whitelock will cover 6 in this match - I'd imagine the bench will include both himself and Boric (who is also capable at 6). I'm sure if Thomson was ruled out for more than just this one game they would consider replacing him, but since he's not out for long (Thomson himself even thinks he will be ready for the Tongan match) they will stick with him. If Thomson was out for a while I'd actually prefer if they replaced with a genuine openside cover for McCaw (Luke Braid/Matt Todd/Scott Waldrom), but I'd imagine Messem would be the one brought in.

 

[ZeFrenchy]

Henry has already confirmed that Sam Whitelock will cover 6 in this match - I'd imagine the bench will include both himself and Boric (who is also capable at 6). I'm sure if Thomson was ruled out for more than just this one game they would consider replacing him, but since he's not out for long (Thomson himself even thinks he will be ready for the Tongan match) they will stick with him. If Thomson was out for a while I'd actually prefer if they replaced with a genuine openside cover for McCaw (Luke Braid/Matt Todd/Scott Waldrom), but I'd imagine Messem would be the one brought in.

Makes sense, thanks.

 

[DJRonStar]

Vito to Start at number 8. Whitelock & SBW on the bench to cover lock and loose forwards until Thompson is back maybe in the second pool game.

 

[formerlyfastwing]

You must play a full strenght side. If they go into that opener, and lose at home...all hell will break loose.

The first game lays down you marker..."here we are, this is what we brought".

 

[Darwin]

You must play a full strenght side. If they go into that opener, and lose at home...all hell will break loose.

The first game lays down you marker..."here we are, this is what we brought".

I'm sure the AB's will play a full strength side in all their pool matches apart from probably vs Japan. The AB's would still win vs Tonga even with a second string team, but they need to get their full strength team together to build up combinations before the playoffs.

 

[Surefire]

I seriously doubt that Tonga will play anything like their full strength side. They will have pinned this game as a lost cause, and will want to keep their powder dry for must win games v Canada and Japan. Then they will want to rip into France, as beating them is their only real chance of qualifying for the playoffs.

I think this is the real, or better, question for all other Pool A teams. Do you save your players for the games which you really believe you can win. My opinion is that Tonga should throw everything they have against the ABs, but when you are thinking about qualifying, I can't argue with the coach if he wants to save players for games they have a good chance of winning. I hope France plays the best team possible at the ABs, but I have read different things on this forum as to what Lievremont was planning on doing.

 

[Manu Samoa]

Good on ya Uso.

I have to go with my head and my heart. After the last 2 results, as tough as Tonga are and as strong as they will be in NZ. I'm think a Richie and the Boys won't be happy with anything but a 50+.

It's in NZ. It's the Opening match. They're coming off a two match losing streak. Questions are being asked of them. They will want too send a send message to NZ'ers, Haters, and the rest of the RWC teams.

Im just tired of people thinking that when the island nations come up against a tier 1 rugby nation the score is gonna be like 50 to nil or 100 to 14, nah its not like that, that may have happened in the past but now times have change, we have professional players plying their talent all over the world and sometimes the irb make rules to favor the tier 1 rugby nations and that is bs, but this year is different, our players have had time to adjust to eachothers style of play and have had more time to gel together as a team, so all you tier 1 rugby nations better watch out come time for the RWC to start.

 

[Seaton]

What rules have the IRB made that favour the Tier 1 countries?

 

[UilamOsa]

Im just tired of people thinking that when the island nations come up against a tier 1 rugby nation the score is gonna be like 50 to nil or 100 to 14, nah its not like that, that may have happened in the past but now times have change, we have professional players plying their talent all over the world and sometimes the irb make rules to favor the tier 1 rugby nations and that is bs, but this year is different, our players have had time to adjust to eachothers style of play and have had more time to gel together as a team, so all you tier 1 rugby nations better watch out come time for the RWC to start.

Agreed, and I hope it doesn't go 50+ (that would be a poor spectacle for the RWC) but the AB's are hurting.

Just know at least the AB's never disrespect the island teams (Unlike the Wallabies against Samoa. :lol, and NZ went into bat for them at the IRB.

 

[AfakasiAssasin]

What rules have the IRB made that favour the Tier 1 countries?

Im not crying about it as it has been the rule for a while now so cant cry over spilt milk and ultimatly it is the players decision and understanding where he pledges his alleigance. But the rule that a player who pledged aleigance to a nation cannot switch alleigance ever. It has been proposed and would be most beneficial if the rule was relaxed to allow players from tier 1 to cross over to an eligable tier 2 nation (e.g from New Zealand to playing for the islands) after a breif stand down period but not the other way around (e.g a player cant jump from Samoa to play for New Zealand). It would greatly widen our player pool and would definatley boost the Island nations being able to consistently compete with the tier 1 nations. It has been proposed at an IRB Meeting lately but was denied as to my understanding the Celtic and European unions voted against it.

 

[Seaton]

Im not crying about it as it has been the rule for a while now so cant cry over spilt milk and ultimatly it is the players decision and understanding where he pledges his alleigance. But the rule that a player who pledged aleigance to a nation cannot switch alleigance ever. It has been proposed and would be most beneficial if the rule was relaxed to allow players from tier 1 to cross over to an eligable tier 2 nation (e.g from New Zealand to playing for the islands) after a breif stand down period but not the other way around (e.g a player cant jump from Samoa to play for New Zealand). It would greatly widen our player pool and would definatley boost the Island nations being able to consistently compete with the tier 1 nations. It has been proposed at an IRB Meeting lately but was denied as to my understanding the Celtic and European unions voted against it.

Ah, so it is not that the IRB is making rules that favour Tier 1 countries, but rather that they are not making rules that favour Tier 2/3 countries, more specifically the Island countries, as they will have access to more players than say Eastern European countries/ Asia.

Fair enough, you do realize how... unfair and greedy such a proposed rule change seems?

As for this game, I imagine the AB's will want to put on a good show, and won't give any quarter (not that they usually do of course), AB's to win by a truck-load of points, one of those massive yellow dirt movers they use in coal pits to be more specific

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Can we have Nick Evans then?
He's not going to play for the All Blacks again, and he must qualify for England through residency pretty soon

 

[Darwin]

Can we have Nick Evans then?
He's not going to play for the All Blacks again, and he must qualify for England through residency pretty soon

Why not - you tier 2 nations need all the help you can get

 

[Aout]

Ah, so it is not that the IRB is making rules that favour Tier 1 countries, but rather that they are not making rules that favour Tier 2/3 countries, more specifically the Island countries, as they will have access to more players than say Eastern European countries/ Asia.

Fair enough, you do realize how... unfair and greedy such a proposed rule change seems?

As for this game, I imagine the AB's will want to put on a good show, and won't give any quarter (not that they usually do of course), AB's to win by a truck-load of points, one of those massive yellow dirt movers they use in coal pits to be more specific

What's unfair is the current system. We end up having teams that have nothing to do with the flag they are supposed to represent (notably England and New Zealand), whereas countries such as Tonga, Fidji or Samoa are f***ed up, because they do not have the financial means to keep their players. This is unfair and this is only a matter of money. We already debated about this, but something needs to be done in order to help these countries to develop. And rules that favor these countries is definitely a solution (a kind of positive discrimination).

 

[calculon]

What's unfair is the current system. We end up having teams that have nothing to do with the flag they are supposed to represent (notably England and New Zealand), whereas countries such as Tonga, Fidji or Samoa are f***ed up, because they do not have the financial means to keep their players. This is unfair and this is only a matter of money. We already debated about this, but something needs to be done in order to help these countries to develop. And rules that favor these countries is definitely a solution (a kind of positive discrimination).

The world cup victory would be all the better for France then wouldn't it? - knowing their team is true to their ahem "arrogant" national identity. (joking Actually, I might support France if Ireland don't do any good.