New Zealand v England

[Prestwick]

He was incredibly aggressive in the first test. At times when it seemed as though the All Blacks were expecting England to kick it down field or opt for a scrum, they suddenly had 108kg of rural Worcestershire slamming into them with the ball. Definitely caught them on the hop a fair few times. Really admired the guys determination.

 

[gingergenius]

OK, I've come to the conclusion that New Zealand are just permanently awesome at rugby. Highly rated England U20s side, without doubt the 2nd best in the world, gets hammered in a world cup final by the NZ U20s.

This taken into account, I've decided that New Zealanders are probably right when they analyse players. After all, an England fan like myself thinks Adam Thompson was excellent; Kiwis are criticising him. Standards are evidently higher.

Anyway, to all the Kiwis, please name, if any, the England players you respect. Just so any English club bias is taken out of it...

 

[woosaah]

tbh i cant name many of the english players, but i can tell you that for about the first 20 mins the forwards were quite good. They were hitting the rucks hard contesting the ball, but after that they would drop off, it was like they couldnt keep up with all the hitting. They contested the ball really well in little pieces of the game, but i found that the AB's could do it more often for longer.

Thats just what i saw, and no-one really stood out at all of me.

 

[fcukernaut]

OK, I've come to the conclusion that New Zealand are just permanently awesome at rugby. Highly rated England U20s side, without doubt the 2nd best in the world, gets hammered in a world cup final by the NZ U20s.

This taken into account, I've decided that New Zealanders are probably right when they analyse players. After all, an England fan like myself thinks Adam Thompson was excellent; Kiwis are criticising him. Standards are evidently higher.

Anyway, to all the Kiwis, please name, if any, the England players you respect. Just so any English club bias is taken out of it... [/b]

I think it's safe to say you have two thirds of your backrow set up for the next 2 world cups. Haskell was emmense in both test matches as was Rees. However, I was a little disappointed that Rees really didn't take advantage of having the best openside in the world off the pitch for 50+ minutes. To me it seemed like he upped his level of play in the first match when he was playing against the best. I think that Care is probably for halfback for the forseeable future. He was shaky in bits but I thought played with aggression and his delivery and ball movement was fantastic. Too bad he was effectively passing to no one. Narraway certainly had a pretty good game in the second test, but I'm not too sure if he has to potential to be a top flight international number 8.

 

[darwin_23]

Did Thompson really play that well? The guys I was watching it with were all in agreement he had a shocker, dropping balls, throwing dodgy passes etc... Then in the post match talks and everyone said he played great, we were like wtf?
[/b]

As fcukernaut said Thomson was outstanding at the break-down, being directly responsible for 4-5 turnovers. His ball running and handling was decidedly average though - this was a surprise for me though as his ball running and passing skills are actually the best part of the game for Otago...

With McCaw out for six-weeks I would imagine the starting loose forward trio will be Thomson and So'oialo on the flanks with Kaino at 8. Not sure who they will bring in for McCaw - Braid would have been in if he hadn't got himself injured, its probably out of Scott Waldrom, Latimer, Masoe, and Read. Personally I favor brining in Masoe given his experience at this level..

<div class='quotemain'> OK, I've come to the conclusion that New Zealand are just permanently awesome at rugby. Highly rated England U20s side, without doubt the 2nd best in the world, gets hammered in a world cup final by the NZ U20s.

This taken into account, I've decided that New Zealanders are probably right when they analyse players. After all, an England fan like myself thinks Adam Thompson was excellent; Kiwis are criticising him. Standards are evidently higher.

Anyway, to all the Kiwis, please name, if any, the England players you respect. Just so any English club bias is taken out of it... [/b]

I think it's safe to say you have two thirds of your backrow set up for the next 2 world cups. Haskell was emmense in both test matches as was Rees. However, I was a little disappointed that Rees really didn't take advantage of having the best openside in the world off the pitch for 50+ minutes. To me it seemed like he upped his level of play in the first match when he was playing against the best. I think that Care is probably for halfback for the forseeable future. He was shaky in bits but I thought played with aggression and his delivery and ball movement was fantastic. Too bad he was effectively passing to no one. Narraway certainly had a pretty good game in the second test, but I'm not too sure if he has to potential to be a top flight international number 8.
[/b][/quote]

Agree entirely with fcukernaut with regard to Rees, Haskell, and Care - I actually wrote something very similar but he beat me too it... I think Haskell's future may be at 8 (has he played much 8??) with Croft at 6. I also thought that Tait was impressive at fullback...

 

[shtove]

The ABs are stirring up another witches' brew for the next few years. Amazing with so many established players absent. Their play is already brilliant in patches.

But how do NZers compare Ireland and England over the last three ABs tests?

Does the weather for the Ireland test make comparison useless? Or do Ireland play a better strategy? Have better players?

 

[Prestwick]

I think it's safe to say you have two thirds of your backrow set up for the next 2 world cups. Haskell was emmense in both test matches as was Rees. However, I was a little disappointed that Rees really didn't take advantage of having the best openside in the world off the pitch for 50+ minutes. To me it seemed like he upped his level of play in the first match when he was playing against the best. I think that Care is probably for halfback for the forseeable future. He was shaky in bits but I thought played with aggression and his delivery and ball movement was fantastic. Too bad he was effectively passing to no one. Narraway certainly had a pretty good game in the second test, but I'm not too sure if he has to potential to be a top flight international number 8.
[/b]

Agree entirely with fcukernaut with regard to Rees, Haskell, and Care - I actually wrote something very similar but he beat me too it... I think Haskell's future may be at 8 (has he played much 8??) with Croft at 6. I also thought that Tait was impressive at fullback... [/b]

Thats a very fair assessment. Rees & Haskell are still very much raw to the international arena, hence the interestingly variable work-rate in places for Rees. Haskell usually doesn't really give a crap and gives it his all whatever the weather. Haskell I think does play at Eight a fair bit, especially when Dallaglio started to come off after 60 minutes or so in the last season.

Narraway is an interesting conundrum. We've still yet to test out Jordan Crane who has turned in some pretty decent performances for Leicester. Maybe you'll see him in the Autumn.

Not bringing Croft at least onto the subs bench was catastrophic. He can play at flanker and lock and is especially good at lock. He's been in form since last year when he outran the NZ Maori and I would have thought him to be a good choice for at least one of the tests. Ditto Dylan Hartley at Hooker and Nick Kennedy, also at lock.

I'm incredibly frustrated that Andrews didn't bother picking such in form talent for the New Zealand plunge pool of doom. Despite the fact that nobody in the squad was over 30, Rob Andrews' squad selection felt so retro, it almost felt like deja vu...maybe it was because Rob Andrew started pulling the following face:

I could have sworn the guy was coaching Edinburgh/Scotland's forwards now...

 

[Charles]

Rob Andrew is such a prick anyway. I hated him with a passion when he was playing in the English team; sooooooo boring to watch, but still winning the games against us...

 

[candybum]

OK, I've come to the conclusion that New Zealand are just permanently awesome at rugby. Highly rated England U20s side, without doubt the 2nd best in the world, gets hammered in a world cup final by the NZ U20s.

This taken into account, I've decided that New Zealanders are probably right when they analyse players. After all, an England fan like myself thinks Adam Thompson was excellent; Kiwis are criticising him. Standards are evidently higher.

Anyway, to all the Kiwis, please name, if any, the England players you respect. Just so any English club bias is taken out of it... [/b]

I thought Borthwick (sp?) was good aye

 

[cyRil]

Regarding the NZ openside problem, is it at times like this that you wish you had Marty Holah?? :wall:

 

[smartcooky]

I would just like to ask one question of England supporters?

How the bloody hell is Mike Tindall still able to bluff his way into an England shirt. He's slower to turn than a Winnebago, he lacks gas, can't pass the ball top save his arse, he misses tackles and he gives away stupid penalties, not to mention getting himself carded twice in two matches for similar offences.

 

[smartcooky]

OK, I've come to the conclusion that New Zealand are just permanently awesome at rugby. Highly rated England U20s side, without doubt the 2nd best in the world, gets hammered in a world cup final by the NZ U20s.

This taken into account, I've decided that New Zealanders are probably right when they analyse players. After all, an England fan like myself thinks Adam Thompson was excellent; Kiwis are criticising him. Standards are evidently higher.

Anyway, to all the Kiwis, please name, if any, the England players you respect. Just so any English club bias is taken out of it... [/b]

Of the England players who came on this tour, I respect Andy Sheridan the most. He has been very unlucky with injuries whenever he has come to NZ, and I think we (kiwis) have never seen the best of him.

Narraway was pretty good and always seemed to be near the play (like a good No.8 should)

Other good players were Care and Strettle.

The rest would probably struggle to make S14 starting XVs

What a pity Cipriani wasn't able to come to NZ. Without him in your side, Dan Carter had a a free pass.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Ok gingergenius.....

I liked Tait in the second test

Tindall is well and truly a substandard player for a back.



Thompson as a number 6 from a NZ perspective is not good enough defensively at the moment which is why we don't rate him as defence is the first thing an AB should have.

 

[ChiefsFan]

Ok gingergenius.....
Thompson as a number 6 from a NZ perspective is not good enough defensively at the moment which is why we don't rate him as defence is the first thing an AB should have.
[/b]

That's also why Kahui is rated fairly highly (although that's not the only reason).

 

[Gay-Guy]

<div class='quotemain'> Ok gingergenius.....
Thompson as a number 6 from a NZ perspective is not good enough defensively at the moment which is why we don't rate him as defence is the first thing an AB should have.
[/b]

That's also why Kahui is rated fairly highly (although that's not the only reason).

[/b][/quote]

Yeah for sure!!!! He really does seem quite good defensively for a young guy....

 

[Prestwick]

Now the news you've all been waiting for...

The four accused England players (allegedly) are:

- Topsy Ojo
- Mike Brown
- Danny Care
- David Strettle.

Now, this is from The Sun, so you might want to wait until an established news wire like Reuters or a Rugby Correspondent for one of the better newspapers of the world like the Daily Telegraph say something.

 

[Sir Speedy]

3 Harlequins players and a LI player. Erm. Have the accused been cleared of all charges yet, since this investigation looks to be going nowhere?

 

[Prestwick]

No, but preparations for trial by the New Zealand press seem to be well in hand!

 

[Klarkash-ton]

the first twenty minutes of the first test were a good eye-opener for NZ.

after that England failed to deliver much, though they did disrupt the All Blacks for periods, for example most of the second half of the first test.

the second test could have been a lot different if England hadn't missed two golden opportunities in the first half, even if they did come against the run of play (great work by MacDonald to keep out Varndell, and sheer bad luck after a great individual effort by Tait).

I thought England were very competitive in the breakdown, throught Rees and Haskell. But that was it. At least they tried to send a full team down this year. Unlike the French. How could the French schedule a tour for before the end of their domestic competition???

 

[Prestwick]

Because they're the French. Believe it or not, they don't really give a crap what anyone in the SH or even in the rest of the NH says about their season structure. If they want to continue playing league games throughout June, they'll damn well do so.

It kind of puts into perspective the difference between perceived influence on the global game and actual influence.