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TRUE LEGND
Guest
Prestwick is melhor he argue's the same point in every forum, his arguments are totally identical. Anti NZ
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scuubasteve
Guest
Final point for Preswick.
You said that hosting World Cups has nothing to do with the performance of the teams on the pitch.
Doesn't world cup qualification depend of performance?
If the IRB cut the tournament to 16 teams, and 12 teams automatically qualify (which I don't think would include Japan), that means that Japan will be in the hunt for the last 4 spots against the USA, Canada, either Tonga or Samoa, Georgia, Romania, Namibia, Portugal, Uraguay and the rest.
If you based it on the current world rankings (Japan is at number 18) then '2011 World Cup Japan' would likely have seen the host nation not qualify for the cup...
Good luck selling that tournament to the locals.
Japan in 2015 is a better option than 2011.
NZ was the best choice for 2011.
You said that hosting World Cups has nothing to do with the performance of the teams on the pitch.
Doesn't world cup qualification depend of performance?
If the IRB cut the tournament to 16 teams, and 12 teams automatically qualify (which I don't think would include Japan), that means that Japan will be in the hunt for the last 4 spots against the USA, Canada, either Tonga or Samoa, Georgia, Romania, Namibia, Portugal, Uraguay and the rest.
If you based it on the current world rankings (Japan is at number 18) then '2011 World Cup Japan' would likely have seen the host nation not qualify for the cup...
Good luck selling that tournament to the locals.
Japan in 2015 is a better option than 2011.
NZ was the best choice for 2011.
R
RC
Guest
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Nuff said. :lol:
T
TRUE LEGND
Guest
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Nuff said. :lol:
[/b][/quote]
ALL DAY...EVERY DAY! :cheers:
E
Eternal Idol
Guest
But ... isn't Melhor already registered in this forum?
E
esoj
Guest
I thought this tune was familar and it is from 2005 http://www.therugbyforum.com/index.php?sho...20host&st=0]
it's nice to see nothing has changed from 2005 especially from people up north isn't
it's nice to see nothing has changed from 2005 especially from people up north isn't
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nam97
Guest
I agree with most of what is said on this board. We should not have a competition like this in such a small country. Heck, we have **** house stadiums which are being cheaply renovated to hold the "bare minimum'' capacity requirements. Look at the state of Eden Park.... joke. So what do we do? Chuck in a "east stand" and throw in some temporary seats. AMI stadium... build a new west stand to hold 45,000, the bare minimum for a semi final. Not only this, these stadiums are dog ugly and will look ridiculous holding the 3rd biggest event in sports in such locations.
F**king embarrassing for me. The 2011 RWC will be worse than 1995, that'll be a 21 year backward step.
F**king embarrassing for me. The 2011 RWC will be worse than 1995, that'll be a 21 year backward step.
W
Will
Guest
Japan should have the 2011 world cup. No douby about it. Where's the rule that the tournament has to be split up between Europe and the Southern Hemisphere???
We saw from the 2002 soccer world cup just how well Japan can host a tournament. Yes it was joint staged with South Korea, but there's no doubt that Japan has the stadia, infrastructure, and the growing fanbase to deal with a rugby world cup on it's own.
With regards to the 2015 WC I'm in two minds about England possibly getting the tournament. I admit that the fact the tournament would be on my own doorstep does appeal as I could make it to random games here and there. However, just look at the disaster of the 2012 Olympic bid for London. The spiraling costs and poor mismanagement show that the UK is a bit of a joke when it comes to organising something on this scale.
If the IRB were in any way serious about encouraging those developing nations (which it appears they aren't) then it would only be fair that Japan be given the WC and the game of rugby be allowed to be a showcase tournament in such a passionate country.
We saw from the 2002 soccer world cup just how well Japan can host a tournament. Yes it was joint staged with South Korea, but there's no doubt that Japan has the stadia, infrastructure, and the growing fanbase to deal with a rugby world cup on it's own.
With regards to the 2015 WC I'm in two minds about England possibly getting the tournament. I admit that the fact the tournament would be on my own doorstep does appeal as I could make it to random games here and there. However, just look at the disaster of the 2012 Olympic bid for London. The spiraling costs and poor mismanagement show that the UK is a bit of a joke when it comes to organising something on this scale.
If the IRB were in any way serious about encouraging those developing nations (which it appears they aren't) then it would only be fair that Japan be given the WC and the game of rugby be allowed to be a showcase tournament in such a passionate country.
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raeanin
Guest
I know its not going to happen, but It would be great to have the RWC come to the US one year. Though rugby is dead here(and who knows why, Americans love violent sports?) The country goes crazy for "world sporting events" such as the Football World Cup or the Olympics. If the media coverage was good, I think it could spark a huge uprising of rugby here in the states, which would be great!
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I Bleed Black
Guest
Crikey.. I was a bit sozzelled last night wasnt I ??? :wacko: Think I needed to let a little steam off!!
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Prestwick
Guest
I'm sorry I-B-B, I shouldn't have put the *insert drunken ramble here*, if it wasn't 7:30am with no morning coffee it would have been much more different 
Anyway...
Of course I do, I also expect that because of the 2012 Olympics you'll have a fraction of the North American and European fans travelling to New Zealand who would have gone to a World Cup, I also expect allot of fans to be put off by the price and time it'll take to fly out there.
The statistics you're putting out are out of date because the World Cup has moved on, it has grown considerably and this is reflected in how the World Cup in France has been phenominally successful so far. For Rugby to grow, the World Cup needs to grow and put more money back into developing the game.
Regarding the comments you added to your earlier post, the NZ government copping some expenses for the world cup isn't any different to Australia of France.
Does the humble state of Queensland hope to host a Rugby World Cup final in 2015?
Adding some temporary seating and an east stand to Eden Park and pushing the other stadia to barely fit the requirements does not count as "giving something back". If you are barely struggling to meet the requirements then something is seriously wrong in the planning department.
I have an issue with the entire process. I have an issue with horse trading to get the votes to win when there are quite blatantly far better bids out there. I especially have an issue with England wanting to host the World Cup in 2015 when the Cup should go to a nation not in the top ten who have the means to host it and not barely scrape by.
Excellent generalisation there! I'm sorry but the facts on the ground in Japan simply doesn't support that statement. Right now Rugby does come a distant third behind Baseball and the J-League but thanks to the financial security that the Japanese system and its Corporate Teams guarantees as well as a gradual increase in exposure you are seeing a vast increase in crowd attendances at Top League games than you saw in its predecessor in 1999. Of course you can't change things overnight but something that can benefit Rugby in Japan is holding a huge showpeice competition in the country.
One thing you underestimate about Japan and thats their ability to rally around a show peice event. Before the Football World Cup, you could hardly say that Japan were a fanatical Soccer nation and previous attempts at starting leagues had failed miserably. But come the actual competition and tickets did sell and most games were packed out. You really need to market it and make it appeal to the Japanese psyche and Rugby is starting to grow on the Japanese. Your assumption that people in Japan just don't care about Rugby just does not ring true.
Actually around the time of the Football World Cup, it was surprisingly cheap to get to. You can get return tickets for around £450 and another £210 guarantees you free high speed travel around the country plus further discounts for accommodation and other things. At the end of the day, its still cheaper than flying to New Zealand.
You know what really annoys me? The fact that the best bid did not win and it lost due to backroom politics and sheer selfishness of the top ten Rugby nations. That is what really annoys me.
Then again, you do have the RFU's Francais Baron saying that "we don't bully anyone" before setting loose the legal dogs of war upon the Clubs of England. I'll tell you what, if you believe what your Union supremo says all the time and I'll keep on reading the newspapers.
No, I could say that it depends on who can offer the most money in order to garner support and votes, but that apparently is not what goes on AT ALL (damn my cynical self) so I'll just go for the politically correct answer and say that it depends on who can hold the best, trouble free and enjoyable Rugby Tournament.
On that basis, Japan blatantly had the better bid. It had a complete infrastructure of stadia, transport and accomodation in order to host the World Cup. It had it by a country mile.
Ooooh, so now you're trying to say that New Zealand only won the rights to host it on a mere legal technicality and not on any other basis then?
Anyway...
Of course I do, I also expect that because of the 2012 Olympics you'll have a fraction of the North American and European fans travelling to New Zealand who would have gone to a World Cup, I also expect allot of fans to be put off by the price and time it'll take to fly out there.
The statistics you're putting out are out of date because the World Cup has moved on, it has grown considerably and this is reflected in how the World Cup in France has been phenominally successful so far. For Rugby to grow, the World Cup needs to grow and put more money back into developing the game.
Regarding the comments you added to your earlier post, the NZ government copping some expenses for the world cup isn't any different to Australia of France.
Does the humble state of Queensland hope to host a Rugby World Cup final in 2015?
Adding some temporary seating and an east stand to Eden Park and pushing the other stadia to barely fit the requirements does not count as "giving something back". If you are barely struggling to meet the requirements then something is seriously wrong in the planning department.
I have an issue with the entire process. I have an issue with horse trading to get the votes to win when there are quite blatantly far better bids out there. I especially have an issue with England wanting to host the World Cup in 2015 when the Cup should go to a nation not in the top ten who have the means to host it and not barely scrape by.
Excellent generalisation there! I'm sorry but the facts on the ground in Japan simply doesn't support that statement. Right now Rugby does come a distant third behind Baseball and the J-League but thanks to the financial security that the Japanese system and its Corporate Teams guarantees as well as a gradual increase in exposure you are seeing a vast increase in crowd attendances at Top League games than you saw in its predecessor in 1999. Of course you can't change things overnight but something that can benefit Rugby in Japan is holding a huge showpeice competition in the country.
One thing you underestimate about Japan and thats their ability to rally around a show peice event. Before the Football World Cup, you could hardly say that Japan were a fanatical Soccer nation and previous attempts at starting leagues had failed miserably. But come the actual competition and tickets did sell and most games were packed out. You really need to market it and make it appeal to the Japanese psyche and Rugby is starting to grow on the Japanese. Your assumption that people in Japan just don't care about Rugby just does not ring true.
Actually around the time of the Football World Cup, it was surprisingly cheap to get to. You can get return tickets for around £450 and another £210 guarantees you free high speed travel around the country plus further discounts for accommodation and other things. At the end of the day, its still cheaper than flying to New Zealand.
You know what really annoys me? The fact that the best bid did not win and it lost due to backroom politics and sheer selfishness of the top ten Rugby nations. That is what really annoys me.
Then again, you do have the RFU's Francais Baron saying that "we don't bully anyone" before setting loose the legal dogs of war upon the Clubs of England. I'll tell you what, if you believe what your Union supremo says all the time and I'll keep on reading the newspapers.
No, I could say that it depends on who can offer the most money in order to garner support and votes, but that apparently is not what goes on AT ALL (damn my cynical self) so I'll just go for the politically correct answer and say that it depends on who can hold the best, trouble free and enjoyable Rugby Tournament.
On that basis, Japan blatantly had the better bid. It had a complete infrastructure of stadia, transport and accomodation in order to host the World Cup. It had it by a country mile.
Ooooh, so now you're trying to say that New Zealand only won the rights to host it on a mere legal technicality and not on any other basis then?
T
TRUE LEGND
Guest
Send him off ref he's been doing it all day!!!
P
Prestwick
Guest
True Legnd, you do remember what happened last time you insisted on going off topic and starting arguments which you had neither the fainted chance nor even the intention of winning...right?
Next one that goes off topic gets nuked.
Next one that goes off topic gets nuked.
S
scuubasteve
Guest
Prestwick, I have to admit, if anything you're a master of twisting words.
Personally, South Africa would have been the best bid.
Japan was the romantics bid.
NZ was the safe bid.
If anything, the IRB has proven that its not a big risk taker.
The only point I have tried to make, from all this witty banter, is NZ2011 won't fail.
Personally, South Africa would have been the best bid.
Japan was the romantics bid.
NZ was the safe bid.
If anything, the IRB has proven that its not a big risk taker.
The only point I have tried to make, from all this witty banter, is NZ2011 won't fail.
F
fcukernaut
Guest
Prestwick, I fully understand your qualms about the system, and you're quite right for having them. There shouldn't be wink wink nudge nudge type of backroom deals. However, it is what it is so please, stop whinging. We don't get anywhere if we continually come back to this point. All we can do is hope that in the future the leaders of the Unions start using their brains and commit to developing rugby world wide.
For those who have brought forward the suggestion that America could host the rugby world cup, please stop. The idea is naive and idiotic. Certainly they have the stadia and the infrastructure, but the American public will not turn out. Perhaps you'll get the stadiums filling with ex-pats and vacationers, but it would not develop rugby at all. There are far too many problems in American rugby to even start to believe that they would gain a single ounce of benefit.
As for the 2011 Rugby World Cup I'm not seeing what the fuss is about outside of how the bid was gained (which I already outlined). Who cares if the NZRU loses $30million? That money will just be supplemented by the NZ government and they won't have a single problem doing it. The World Cup will bring in billions of dollars into the economy, what is mere $30mil. Even when the costs go over $60 and $70mil, the costs will still be negligible.
Another issue that was brought up was the cost of traveling to New Zealand. Now, assuming there isn't a huge shift in the NZ dollar the difference between going to NZ and going to Japan will also be negligible. Sure the cost of the ticket will be more, but the cost of living expenses will be cheaper. Spending two months in NZ will be far cheaper than in Japan.
At the end of the day though, the iRB will still pocket over $200million from TV contracts, and the game will continue to progress, so it will automatically be a success regardless where it is.
For those who have brought forward the suggestion that America could host the rugby world cup, please stop. The idea is naive and idiotic. Certainly they have the stadia and the infrastructure, but the American public will not turn out. Perhaps you'll get the stadiums filling with ex-pats and vacationers, but it would not develop rugby at all. There are far too many problems in American rugby to even start to believe that they would gain a single ounce of benefit.
As for the 2011 Rugby World Cup I'm not seeing what the fuss is about outside of how the bid was gained (which I already outlined). Who cares if the NZRU loses $30million? That money will just be supplemented by the NZ government and they won't have a single problem doing it. The World Cup will bring in billions of dollars into the economy, what is mere $30mil. Even when the costs go over $60 and $70mil, the costs will still be negligible.
Another issue that was brought up was the cost of traveling to New Zealand. Now, assuming there isn't a huge shift in the NZ dollar the difference between going to NZ and going to Japan will also be negligible. Sure the cost of the ticket will be more, but the cost of living expenses will be cheaper. Spending two months in NZ will be far cheaper than in Japan.
At the end of the day though, the iRB will still pocket over $200million from TV contracts, and the game will continue to progress, so it will automatically be a success regardless where it is.
R
Ripper
Guest
Or they could just host it in the many many NFL stadia that they have across America like they did with, let me think, the Diveball World Cup in 1994! How about 90,000 for the RWC Final? How does that one grab ya?! [/b][/quote]
Depends, will the IRB have to pay for the 90,000 to be flown in from overseas? or will we just fill the Rose Bowl with blow up dolls and put giant fans around the place to simulate crowd movement? And what a success the soccer world cup was for getting the American game kickstarted, 15 years on and Major League Soccer can almost match NPC Attendances!
And what about the Pool Games? That's alot of blow up dolls or plane tickets that will have to be purchased to get those American Stadiums to at least look like someone showed up.
Probably got hired by the Welsh Rugby Union, that's what happened to the fool who was in before Rutherford's Monkey's took over the asylum and screwed up in 2003. And it's much worse, than Multiplex or the UK, Trevor Mallard is the "Minister for the Rugby World Cup" or some **** like that..
